Advance Purchase Tickets - the daily battle!

[Watershed]

This is what jumped out at me:

”…no one seems to understand how expensive train travel really is without AP tickets anymore!…”

(from the OP, can’t do a proper quote on phone)

It’s almost as if we’re being given some gracious benevolence when finding an affordable Advance ticket that meets our requirements. It’s probably just as well that cheaper tickets are visible, or no-one would ever consider using the railway unless someone else was paying.

Indeed. That bit of the original post did somewhat give off the wrong impression, though I'm sure the OP didn't mean it to. It would be ludicrous to suggest that the cost of an Anytime ticket is the "normal" price; it's the distress purchase rate that the TOCs charge to maximise revenue. Neither they nor the government are under any illusions that this is a viable rate to charge for the entire day.

Advance tickets have so often been touted by the industry as justification for hiking up the cost, or reducing the flexibility, of walk-up tickets. With them now being available for many short journeys of half an hour or even less, and on the day up to 10 minutes before departure, it's fair to say that they have become the new walk-up ticket in a lot of respects.

 

[Starmill]

no one seems to understand how expensive train travel really is without AP tickets anymore!

I'm afraid that the reality of life is that nobody is going to willingly pay those prices with their own money because they're hilariously uncompetitive. Therefore you've got a customer base which is made up overwhelmingly of people who have zero intention of ever paying those prices. For example LNER are putting the cheapest Wakefield to London return on flexible tickets up to £134. Be reasonable, is anyone in their right mind going to pay that, out of their own money, and think it's a fair price for what they're getting?

 

[Feuillesmortes]

When you’re performance measured on only selling to condition 6 of NRCOT …

The TOC seems happy with an appropriate ticket then, rather than Anytime Single

 

[Sheffcaster202]

The TOC seems happy with an appropriate ticket then, rather than Anytime Single

The TOC is not…attached extract from NRCOT is what we are told to follow, really cannot see where you got that from based on what I have posted?!

NRCOT can be found here to verify

 

[Hadders]

The NRCoT allows an Anytime Single to be chanrged but there is nothing stopping a pragmatic TOC from charging an appropriate fare. The NRCoT simply states the maximum allowed.

 

[skyhigh]

I've never heard a whisper in all the years I've worked of anyone being told "you sold someone a ticket with a railcard out of this station with a ticket office, why?"

I can assure you that does happen at a certain TOC, unfortunately. It was part of the reason I was so glad to get out!

 

[PeterC]

Ticket selling websites are clearer than they were. Some time pre covid I simply wanted to look up the cost of a day out from Shipley to York. I could find a fare for each train but nothing to tell me which if any were flexible fares.

It's a lot clearer now, at least for somebody who us a bit of a railway nerd!

Anytime fares are a disgrace. If I am taking pot luck on seat availability I should be paying substantially less than the guy with a guaranteed seat.

 

[Starmill]

I can assure you that does happen at a certain TOC, unfortunately. It was part of the reason I was so glad to get out!

Must be a complete nightmare nowadays, given how frequently it will be the case that the ticket office was closed when it should have been open.

Frequently it will also be the case that the ticket office and machines will be those of a different operator.

Oxenholme Lake District is hardly some small wayside halt for example, but when the ticket office is closed due to staff shortage there's no way to buy a ticket at all, as the machine is inside the locked waiting room. And yet one has to wonder if Northern or TransPennine Express proactively request the log from Avanti when this happens...

Avanti's station staff also authorise passengers to board without tickets now in cases of excessive queues far more often than when they had more ticket machines.

 

[AlterEgo]

Revenue figures or sticking to the letter of the rules?

My revenue figures are generally very healthy indeed but I also use plenty of discretion with minor issues, which is strongly encouraged by my TOC.

I've never heard a whisper in all the years I've worked of anyone being told "you sold someone a ticket with a railcard out of this station with a ticket office, why?" for example but plenty of cases of "why are you not taking any revenue?".

Once again proof that the job is only as hard as you want to make it. Which is one of the things I liked about working on the railway. And, generally, the job was easier when you were giving the benefit of the doubt.

 

[skyhigh]

Must be a complete nightmare nowadays, given how frequently it will be the case that the ticket office was closed when it should have been open.

The last straw for me was when a passenger ran onto the platform (clearly out of breath, sweating etc) and up to me asking if I could sell them a ticket as they hadn't had time to go to the ticket office as they were running late due to their bus being cancelled so they had to run to the station. Clearly no intention to evade the fare so I used my discretion and sold an off-peak return with Railcard discount but explained it was because he'd asked me before he boarded.

The next day I got an email asking for an explanation as to why I'd sold a discounted ticket from a station with a ticket office and machine...

 

[transportphoto]

The next day I got an email asking for an explanation as to why I'd sold a discounted ticket from a station with a ticket office and machine...

Easier all round to have let them have a free ride and management would have never known. I have no words.

 

[Starmill]

The last straw for me was when a passenger ran onto the platform (clearly out of breath, sweating etc) and up to me asking if I could sell them a ticket as they hadn't had time to go to the ticket office as they were running late due to their bus being cancelled so they had to run to the station. Clearly no intention to evade the fare so I used my discretion and sold an off-peak return with Railcard discount but explained it was because he'd asked me before he boarded.

The next day I got an email asking for an explanation as to why I'd sold a discounted ticket from a station with a ticket office and machine...

Very frustrating indeed, given that the alternative outcome if permission to board hadn't been given in that case could very well have been the customer missing that train and not travelling whatsoever, resulting in taking zero fare rather than the usual fare.

Easier all round to have let them have a free ride and management would have never known. I have no words.

Or of course, that.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

Once again proof that the job is only as hard as you want to make it. Which is one of the things I liked about working on the railway. And, generally, the job was easier when you were giving the benefit of the doubt.

So initially make it easier but face the consequences later…face the consequences that wouldn’t be necessary if people just bought a valid ticket in the first place, but that’s made harder by buying tickets being difficult for the average day tripper who doesn’t understand the pages and pages of rules around ticketing

 

[Starmill]

So initially make it easier but face the consequences later…face the consequences that wouldn’t be necessary if people just bought a valid ticket in the first place, but that’s made harder by buying tickets being difficult for the average day tripper who doesn’t understand the pages and pages of rules around ticketing

As I said above, you have the customer base that you have. You're clearly on the ball about this and know your customer's likely attitudes very well. It's also clear that you understand why they have the attitudes they do, good and bad.

What other people are trying to say here is that you won't be able to ameliorate the issues you're facing by blindly hoping that the customers will change their attitudes or behaviour. I think that you're already aware of that, though.