AirPods while driving?

[axlecounter]

Are there any Automatically run trains with Drivers?

Partially-automated if you prefer. I was thinking of the ATO on some tube lines.

 

[Juliet Barvo]

Absolutely.

The ATO LU lines (Jubilee, Victoria, Central, Northern and shortly the entire subsurface network) all have drivers.

The Thameslink core is planned to switch over to ATO operation shortly.

The ATO LU lines (Jubilee, Victoria, Central, Northern and shortly the entire subsurface network) all have OPERATORS. Not drivers.

 

[43066]

The ATO LU lines (Jubilee, Victoria, Central, Northern and shortly the entire subsurface network) all have OPERATORS. Not drivers.

Ok then. ATO underground trains have operators, ATO TL trains will have drivers.

But, as per the OP’s query, none of them are allowed to wear ear buds while driving.

 

[hexagon789]

Shouldn’t different methods of keeping focus be used on automated systems? While I see how airpods can be a distraction on mainline/traditional systems (ie look at the signals) I don’t see how they could worsen the situation in an automatically run train.

If an obstacle found it's way on to the track, the automatic system might not pick that up, but an alert human could and act accordingly. I assume though the fully automated lines (no onboard personnel) are designed with this in mind, so it may be either not an issue or considered an acceptable risk.

 

[axlecounter]

If an obstacle found it's way on to the track, the automatic system might not pick that up, but an alert human could and act accordingly.

Yes. What I was suggesting is that it's fully questionable whether the "alert human" is less alert if he's for example listening to music (as an airpod ban might suggest) or perhaps better alert.
I find it's the latter for me, but obviously I see what's the problem for TOCs here...

 

[MostlyHarmless]

I'm of the opinion that headphones of any description are very distracting - which is fine if you aren't driving a car, train or crossing the road! I've been on numerous blues runs where we have tried to get past a vehicle and the driver hasn't heard the sirens because they've had headphones on!

 

[broadgage]

IIRC there IS a specific rule that forbids the use of personal electronics.
"no employee shall carry, wear, or use anything that may interfere with their ability to hear audible warnings" or some closely similar wording. I think that this was introduced perhaps 30 years ago when Walkman type personal cassete players first became popular.

 

[Llama]

Perhaps the driver in question wearing these things would also wear them to their occupational health medicals which include a hearing test.

Thought not.

 

[theironroad]

Perhaps the driver in question wearing these things would also wear them to their occupational health medicals which include a hearing test.

Thought not.

There are drivers around who are required to wearing heating aids , generally their hearing is functionally fine but the OH booth hearing test may fail them.

 

[theironroad]

If you can see what a driver has on his head, let alone the brand, without being in the cab with them...

Aren't airpods the distinctive looking white ones with little sticks made by Apple rather than the ear bud type that are often black and other colours and many different brands?

 

[Llama]

There are drivers around who are required to wearing heating aids , generally their hearing is functionally fine but the OH booth hearing test may fail them.

True, but that's a mitigation permitted under occupational health standards much the same as corrective glasses are.

 

[sw1ller]

I had a passenger tell me off for having earphones in once, they were bright orange earbuds to dampen the harsh tones of the aws. Don’t know how he got them confused!!

I personally can keep myself entertained and concentrate on the job in hand for an hour or two without the need to listen to music. Why you’d risk your job to do so is beyond me.

 

[Lewis5949]

It's not allowed on the tube if your caught big trouble

It is actually. On the Jubilee line they have a 'local agreement' that train operators can wear their own headphones and play music. I don't know the ins and outs of the agreement but that came from the Line Controller. Of course won't apply to all lines but it is allowed in some areas.

Don't the underground have some kind of ear plugs now because of the track noise.

Some do but not everyone is provided with them and many use their own. The track noise problem should be fixed so earplugs shouldn't be required.

If an obstacle found it's way on to the track, the automatic system might not pick that up, but an alert human could and act accordingly. I assume though the fully automated lines (no onboard personnel) are designed with this in mind, so it may be either not an issue or considered an acceptable risk.

Very true. I expect the next generation of trains to have cameras on the front like Tesla vehicles that can detect obstructions that ATO signalling can't.

Yes. What I was suggesting is that it's fully questionable whether the "alert human" is less alert if he's for example listening to music (as an airpod ban might suggest) or perhaps better alert.
I find it's the latter for me, but obviously I see what's the problem for TOCs here...

I agree here, I have been in the cab many times and what I hear time and time ahain is how boring things are... and ultimately that means they will eventually become tired, zoned out, and less alert. Referring to automatic London Underground lines here. If music makes someone more alert, happier, and does not distract them from the road ahead or calls over the radio then I'm all for permitting it especially if the earphones look like earplugs and act as ear defenders too.

 

[hexagon789]

I expect the next generation of trains to have cameras on the front like Tesla vehicles that can detect obstructions that ATO signalling can't.

That's a way round it and will probably become common on ATO-worked trains I think

 

[Robcuk]

Sydney trains newer stock have car radio headunits in that you can listen to music via radio or usb attachment. The older stock drivers would just bring in personal Bluetooth speakers and stream music or in my case podcasts.

As mentioned above for some music/podcasts/audiobooks may help you maintain concentration. Obviously some wouldn't use the facility but it's nice to have the option. I personally used it but if I was encountering disruption or alot of cautionary signals would just turn it off until I felt comfortable enough.

The headunits in the more modern units would mute when alarms were activated or if the guard/signaller was contacting you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree here, I have been in the cab many times and what I hear time and time ahain is how boring things are... and ultimately that means they will eventually become tired, zoned out, and less alert. Referring to automatic London Underground lines here. If music makes someone more alert, happier, and does not distract them from the road ahead or calls over the radio then I'm all for permitting it especially if the earphones look like earplugs and act as ear defenders too.

An ATO "driver" is basically a non-revenue guard sat up front, aren't they? On something like the Tube the risk is similar to the DLR - short of someone falling in front there isn't really anything going to be there to hit. A surface line with e.g. level crossings would be quite different and would be where obstruction detection might come in.

 

[Lewlew]

It is actually. On the Jubilee line they have a 'local agreement' that train operators can wear their own headphones and play music. I don't know the ins and outs of the agreement but that came from the Line Controller. Of course won't apply to all lines but it is allowed in some areas.

Absolutely not true at all.

 

[Tube driver]

It is actually. On the Jubilee line they have a 'local agreement' that train operators can wear their own headphones and play music. I don't know the ins and outs of the agreement but that came from the Line Controller. Of course won't apply to all lines but it is allowed in some areas.



Some do but not everyone is provided with them and many use their own. The track noise problem should be fixed so earplugs shouldn't be required.



.

No tube driver on any line are allowed to use headphones to listen to music in any way shape or form and no personal electronic devices are allowed to be on whilst in charge of your train. End of. There is absolutely no local agreement with regards the Jubilee Line and you’ll be having a very uncomfortable meeting if you’re caught using them. With high definition platform cctv and plain clothed staff out and about on the trains and stations, it’s not worth messing with.

Ear defenders are supplied to drivers who want them on certain lines that suffer from excessive noise and are pretty effective but you can use your own if you choose but you must still be able to hear what’s going on around you (radio, alarms, etc).

 

[hooverboy]

Yes. What I was suggesting is that it's fully questionable whether the "alert human" is less alert if he's for example listening to music (as an airpod ban might suggest) or perhaps better alert.
I find it's the latter for me, but obviously I see what's the problem for TOCs here...

For things like headphones and airpods, the answer is obviously no. your ability to hear audible warnings like AWS is vastly impeded.

For more traditional radios,it's about as distracting as your car radio or somebody in the cab talking to you, probably less of a distraction in the latter case sometimes!
Some people actually concentrate better with radios,as it breaks up the monotony of road hum.
In rails case you could argue the constant whining of traction motors,the strobing/hypnotic effect of passing catenery would fall into this category.

 

[hooverboy]

Sydney trains newer stock have car radio headunits in that you can listen to music via radio or usb attachment.

The headunits in the more modern units would mute when alarms were activated or if the guard/signaller was contacting you.

Seems like a sensible compromise IMHO

 

[Lewis5949]

Absolutely not true at all.

Absolutely is because I called the Line Contoller and asked them myself!

What exactly 'local agreement' means, I can't clarify, but I made it clear it was regular headphones and their response was that it's permitted! I'm not saying it's allowed in the rules but clearly there is something going on or the controller would be concerned by my question.

 

[londonboi198o5]

Absolutely is because I called the Line Contoller and asked them myself!

What exactly 'local agreement' means, I can't clarify, but I made it clear it was regular headphones and their response was that it's permitted! I'm not saying it's allowed in the rules but clearly there is something going on or the controller would be concerned by my question.

somehow how I don’t believe you one bit in this thread.

 

[Lewis5949]

somehow how I don’t believe you one bit in this thread.

I understand that what I am saying may sound a bit odd but what benefit would I have by coming here and lying about that? Zero.

If you're going to call me a liar then fine, but I know the call that I had and what I was told, even though I was rather surprised myself.

 

[londonboi198o5]

I understand that what I am saying may sound a bit odd but what benefit would I have by coming here and lying about that? Zero.

If you're going to call me a liar then fine, but I know the call that I had and what I was told, even though I was rather surprised myself.

I have not called you a liar i said and i quote "somehow how I don’t believe you one bit in this thread" that is my opinion on your comment it is not me calling you a liar,

 

[Aivilo]

Well I've spoken to every driver I know on the jubilee (and other ATO lines) several controllers and a network incident response manager and they all say there is no local agreement. Would love to know who this controller is

 

[Tube driver]

I am a t/op on the Jubilee Line and what that controller told you was a pile of rubbish.

Headphones are most definitely NOT allowed to be used whilst in control of your train. Ear defenders, yes. Headphones, No.

 

[Stigy]

I have not called you a liar i said and i quote "somehow how I don’t believe you one bit in this thread" that is my opinion on your comment it is not me calling you a liar,

That’s basically calling him a liar

If you’d have said, “I believe you may have been misinformed”, that’s not however calling someone a liar.

 

[hooverboy]

I am a t/op on the Jubilee Line and what that controller told you was a pile of rubbish.

Headphones are most definitely NOT allowed to be used whilst in control of your train. Ear defenders, yes. Headphones, No.

if you have to potentially listen out for audible warnings, ear defenders are out of the window as well.

 

[4F89]

if you have to potentially listen out for audible warnings, ear defenders are out of the window as well.

Not if they are only white noise cancelling ones

 

[hooverboy]

Not if they are only white noise cancelling ones

depends on what noise you have to listen for.

a long,long,time ago(in a galaxy far,far,away) I was working in a test lab which was right next door to a process facility.
when they etch PCB's and such one of the biproducts is cyanide gas. if the extractor fans decide to pack up, you don't want to be anywhere near it.....it really is end of story if you don't run like buggery if that alarm is going off!

I will quite happily take the dulcit drones of instrument exhaust fans(which can be bloody loud) over the piercing screech of one of those emergency alarms