axlecounter
Member
Partially-automated if you prefer. I was thinking of the ATO on some tube lines.Are there any Automatically run trains with Drivers?
Partially-automated if you prefer. I was thinking of the ATO on some tube lines.Are there any Automatically run trains with Drivers?
Absolutely.
The ATO LU lines (Jubilee, Victoria, Central, Northern and shortly the entire subsurface network) all have drivers.
The Thameslink core is planned to switch over to ATO operation shortly.
The ATO LU lines (Jubilee, Victoria, Central, Northern and shortly the entire subsurface network) all have OPERATORS. Not drivers.
Shouldn’t different methods of keeping focus be used on automated systems? While I see how airpods can be a distraction on mainline/traditional systems (ie look at the signals) I don’t see how they could worsen the situation in an automatically run train.
Yes. What I was suggesting is that it's fully questionable whether the "alert human" is less alert if he's for example listening to music (as an airpod ban might suggest) or perhaps better alert.If an obstacle found it's way on to the track, the automatic system might not pick that up, but an alert human could and act accordingly.
Perhaps the driver in question wearing these things would also wear them to their occupational health medicals which include a hearing test.
Thought not.
If you can see what a driver has on his head, let alone the brand, without being in the cab with them...
True, but that's a mitigation permitted under occupational health standards much the same as corrective glasses are.There are drivers around who are required to wearing heating aids , generally their hearing is functionally fine but the OH booth hearing test may fail them.
It's not allowed on the tube if your caught big trouble
Don't the underground have some kind of ear plugs now because of the track noise.
If an obstacle found it's way on to the track, the automatic system might not pick that up, but an alert human could and act accordingly. I assume though the fully automated lines (no onboard personnel) are designed with this in mind, so it may be either not an issue or considered an acceptable risk.
Yes. What I was suggesting is that it's fully questionable whether the "alert human" is less alert if he's for example listening to music (as an airpod ban might suggest) or perhaps better alert.
I find it's the latter for me, but obviously I see what's the problem for TOCs here...
I expect the next generation of trains to have cameras on the front like Tesla vehicles that can detect obstructions that ATO signalling can't.
I agree here, I have been in the cab many times and what I hear time and time ahain is how boring things are... and ultimately that means they will eventually become tired, zoned out, and less alert. Referring to automatic London Underground lines here. If music makes someone more alert, happier, and does not distract them from the road ahead or calls over the radio then I'm all for permitting it especially if the earphones look like earplugs and act as ear defenders too.
Absolutely not true at all.It is actually. On the Jubilee line they have a 'local agreement' that train operators can wear their own headphones and play music. I don't know the ins and outs of the agreement but that came from the Line Controller. Of course won't apply to all lines but it is allowed in some areas.
It is actually. On the Jubilee line they have a 'local agreement' that train operators can wear their own headphones and play music. I don't know the ins and outs of the agreement but that came from the Line Controller. Of course won't apply to all lines but it is allowed in some areas.
Some do but not everyone is provided with them and many use their own. The track noise problem should be fixed so earplugs shouldn't be required.
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For things like headphones and airpods, the answer is obviously no. your ability to hear audible warnings like AWS is vastly impeded.Yes. What I was suggesting is that it's fully questionable whether the "alert human" is less alert if he's for example listening to music (as an airpod ban might suggest) or perhaps better alert.
I find it's the latter for me, but obviously I see what's the problem for TOCs here...
Seems like a sensible compromise IMHOSydney trains newer stock have car radio headunits in that you can listen to music via radio or usb attachment.
The headunits in the more modern units would mute when alarms were activated or if the guard/signaller was contacting you.
Absolutely not true at all.
Absolutely is because I called the Line Contoller and asked them myself!
What exactly 'local agreement' means, I can't clarify, but I made it clear it was regular headphones and their response was that it's permitted! I'm not saying it's allowed in the rules but clearly there is something going on or the controller would be concerned by my question.
somehow how I don’t believe you one bit in this thread.
I understand that what I am saying may sound a bit odd but what benefit would I have by coming here and lying about that? Zero.
If you're going to call me a liar then fine, but I know the call that I had and what I was told, even though I was rather surprised myself.
That’s basically calling him a liarI have not called you a liar i said and i quote "somehow how I don’t believe you one bit in this thread" that is my opinion on your comment it is not me calling you a liar,
if you have to potentially listen out for audible warnings, ear defenders are out of the window as well.I am a t/op on the Jubilee Line and what that controller told you was a pile of rubbish.
Headphones are most definitely NOT allowed to be used whilst in control of your train. Ear defenders, yes. Headphones, No.
Not if they are only white noise cancelling onesif you have to potentially listen out for audible warnings, ear defenders are out of the window as well.
depends on what noise you have to listen for.Not if they are only white noise cancelling ones