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Amsterdam by Eurostar

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ainsworth74

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Please see the dedicated thread if anyone wishes to the discuss the disappointing news about Eurostar's services to the South of France which can be found here.
 
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cle

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paul1609 said:
I think you are reading too many Amsterdam City promotional leaflets. Netflixs EMA HQ in Amsterdam employees would comfortably fit on one Eurostar.
Amsterdam may well be expanding but it remains the capital of whats a peripheral (if likeable enough from a British perspective) nation in Europe.
Realistically its not in the top ten European Business Hubs let alone competing for the second spot.
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I think you should get yourself up to speed on Amsterdam (and Rotterdam) - Shell and Unilever alone pack out these trains. The fact that you initially called it quaint means I think you should re-acquaint with the changes there

My point has nothing to do with Netflix's head-count, it's about their American overlords from SF, LA (and Portland, re Nike) who come to EMEA. Philips too, which is actually Dutch. But UK regional offices too - this is a Brexit issue also. HQs moving within EMEA will lead to the previous UK EMEA HQ becoming a satellite.

But this isn't about naming individual companies. There has been a massive shift in business, across all verticals and sectors. Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt are simply not as varied or open. The nation of the Netherlands itself isn't so relevant - businesses (other than fiscal arrangements) locate in specific cities, not countries.
 
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BahrainLad

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Peter Kelford said:
I would not be surprised if that factored in things like letterbox or near letterbox companies for fiscal reasons.
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Well, you can look at gross value add then - the size of each economy. Helpfully, Eurostat splits this out regionally. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-datasets/product?code=nama_10r_3gva (just click view table)

GVA at basic prices by region, 2018, in euro:
UK - 2.15 trillion
France - 2.09 trillion
Netherlands - 692 billion (6th biggest in Europe behind DE, UK, FR, IT and SP)
Ille de France - 652 billion (obviously included in France, above)
London - 508 billion (as above)
Belgium - 409 billion
West Nederland (Rotterdam) - 372 billion
Noord Holland (Amsterdam) - 149 billion
Brussels-Capital Region - 74 billion

I think it's pretty clear that the London - Brussels - Rotterdam - Amsterdam corridor is one of the richest parts of Europe.

Someone mentioned Greater Manchester. Its GVA is €80bn.
 
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Chester1 said:
The reintroduction of a daily Amsterdam service next month shows Eurostar is committed to the route. Hopefully we will see 3tpd direct in both directions this year and upto 5tpd by end of next year.

Edit: removed references to South of France service.
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Will services actually resume seems one train a day for some time now?
 
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Gadget88 said:
Will services actually resume seems one train a day for some time now?
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Once the UK stops quarantining arrivals from France, Belgium and the Netherlands demand will increase significantly. There is an incentive to get Amsterdam services to a level that justifies opening the border controls at Amsterdam and Rotterdam. Cutting the change of train and an hour from the westbound services will increase demand. Hopefully the demand with three direct services per day in both directions will be equal or greater than the demand for the messy 3tpd service provided before the pandemic. The delay was due to the respective governments needing to agree on border stuff, not due to the cost of providing them.
 
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alex397 said:
The Man in Seat 61 has tweeted the following:

“Eurostar will reinstate a direct London to Amsterdam train from 9 July, though return service will still involve a change in Brussels”


Disappointing that the change in Brussels on the return leg still remains. I thought this problem had been sorted.
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Through services were due to start in April IIRC - I imagine staffing the security might be the issue for now.
 
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STEVIEBOY1

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30907 said:
Through services were due to start in April IIRC - I imagine staffing the security might be the issue for now.
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Probably that is correct for the time being, hopefully the new through service back to London from Amsterdam will happen in the not too distant future.
 
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cle

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Probably not viable for one departure a day. I imagine they're after 2 services per shift! Or similar.

Not sure if it is like airports where folks cycle through the process (i.e. you see your check-in people at the gate an hour later) - but on the platforms guiding.
 
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Maybe Eurostar doesn't see the cost of providing the staff worth it to allow a through service to operate again from Amsterdam to London, and to be fair I have no likelihood of wanting to use the service in the near future anyway, but I will never use the Eurostar from Amsterdam to London if a change in Brussels is required, like I won't use the (apparently not running anyway) Lyon-London service with a change required in Lille.

Not because I can't change, I simply won't.

But there will be plenty of other potential travellers now and in future who can't or won't also.

I guess Eurostar is taking the view currently that passenger numbers on the Amsterdam-London service will be down anyway, and that those who are travelling either can't choose to avoid the Brussels shuffle, or don't mind it. When things return more to normal, then the need to attract more customers to more services might see the direct services reinstated along with the extra staff apparently required.
 
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jfollows said:
Maybe Eurostar doesn't see the cost of providing the staff worth it to allow a through service to operate again from Amsterdam to London, and to be fair I have no likelihood of wanting to use the service in the near future anyway, but I will never use the Eurostar from Amsterdam to London if a change in Brussels is required, like I won't use the (apparently not running anyway) Lyon-London service with a change required in Lille.

Not because I can't change, I simply won't.

But there will be plenty of other potential travellers now and in future who can't or won't also.

I guess Eurostar is taking the view currently that passenger numbers on the Amsterdam-London service will be down anyway, and that those who are travelling either can't choose to avoid the Brussels shuffle, or don't mind it. When things return more to normal, then the need to attract more customers to more services might see the direct services reinstated along with the extra staff apparently required.
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Out of interest, if you were to use the Eurostar fro St Pancras, how would you get to St Pancras?
 
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cle

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jfollows said:
Maybe Eurostar doesn't see the cost of providing the staff worth it to allow a through service to operate again from Amsterdam to London, and to be fair I have no likelihood of wanting to use the service in the near future anyway, but I will never use the Eurostar from Amsterdam to London if a change in Brussels is required, like I won't use the (apparently not running anyway) Lyon-London service with a change required in Lille.

Not because I can't change, I simply won't.

But there will be plenty of other potential travellers now and in future who can't or won't also.

I guess Eurostar is taking the view currently that passenger numbers on the Amsterdam-London service will be down anyway, and that those who are travelling either can't choose to avoid the Brussels shuffle, or don't mind it. When things return more to normal, then the need to attract more customers to more services might see the direct services reinstated along with the extra staff apparently required.
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I get this. I've never done the Lille change - I think also a 5+ hour train journey is repetitive if soon after, so many will fly one way anyway. Probably home.

But when everything stabilizes, I think Amsterdam will rocket even further. And there are incremental improvements to explore (line upgrades, dwells, future 320) on journey times which might enable other calls (Lille or Kent), better on-time performance - or just quicker advertised journey times.

South of France is tougher without on-board checks, which our Europhobic press will explode about. Lyon, Avignon, Marseille - these are novelty, once-daily max routes. Even if Lyon grew, being closer - or with Bordeaux in summer, it would still be tough to have a viable customs/passport operation at those stations.

Geneva might be the next one to invest in, being a business and year-round leisure destination, which might justify 2 frequencies. Perhaps it could replace the existing ski train too.
 
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MisterT said:
Article from the Dutch Ministry: https://www.nieuwsienw.nl/1707140.aspx?t=Sneller-met-de-trein-naar-Londen
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Thank you, that's really helpful.
Google translates this as:
Faster by train to London
07-07-2020
In Brussels, today the treaties have been signed by the Netherlands, France, Belgium and the United Kingdom that enable a faster train journey to London.

On behalf of the Netherlands, State Secretary Stientje van Veldhoven (I&W) signed the agreements on border controls and security. As of this autumn, the passport and security check will be done in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. It is then no longer necessary to leave the train in Brussels. That saves an hour of travel time.


“We are still living in corona times, but of course we also look ahead. Soon you will travel comfortably, easily and therefore quickly by train from Amsterdam to London. No more hassle with checks and delays in Brussels. A Eurostar train has roughly twice as many seats as an average plane and CO2 emissions per passenger are considerably lower. This makes the train to London a real sustainable and fully-fledged alternative to flying, "said State Secretary Van Veldhoven.



Earlier, the first direct Eurostar between Amsterdam and London was planned to run at the end of April. However, due to the corona crisis, passenger numbers have fallen sharply and Eurostar therefore stopped the connection between the Netherlands and the United Kingdom in March. As a result, the test phase for the direct connection (without delay in Brussels) has also been delayed. With corona measures eased and more frequent travel, Eurostar will start a daily train between Amsterdam and London on 9 July. Depending on the developments around Corona and thus the number of passengers, the intention is that this train will run twice a day in August, followed in the autumn by a third train a day. In the autumn, the direct trips from Amsterdam to London will start.


With the signing of the treaties, the Netherlands undertakes, among other things, the obligation to guarantee the security of trains passing through the Channel Tunnel in the Netherlands. The further arrangements are based on the existing security treaty for train services through the Channel Tunnel that was concluded in 1993 between France, the UK and Belgium.
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James H

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Here's the UK announcement
www.gov.uk

New Eurostar treaties open up direct travel from Amsterdam to London

New treaties signed today make direct train services from Amsterdam to London possible later this year.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
The Home Office-led treaty concerning Frontier Control arrangements extends the existing model of “juxtaposed border checks” to the Netherlands; whereby passengers are checked, prior to departure, successively by border officials from the departure and arrival countries.

This means UK Border Force officials will be stationed in Amsterdam and Rotterdam and able to carry out checks before boarding, as they already do in France and Belgium. It also allows for further cooperation between the police forces of the 4 countries involved in the fight against cross-border crime.
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