Changes to the Gold Card validity were made in 2015. There are a number of differences:I'd always thought of the AGC as a strict superset of the Network Railcard
High Speed Upgrade fares show as unavailable on brfares.com
That's a new one on me! Everyday's a school day!Yes to both. For reasons best known to Southeastern, you can't get a Gold Card discount on the Supplement and Jobcentre Plus discounts aren't valid on High Speed services at all. All other Railcards apply as normal.
The not past Banbury on XC rule is pretty bonkers. Does this mean if I jump on a XC train with a discounted gold card ticket from Leamington to Reading holding an all trains via Banbury London terminals ticket I am fare evading??Changes to the Gold Card validity were made in 2015. There are a number of differences:
- Gold Card Area is extended to include East Anglia and much of the Midlands as far north as Stafford on the WCML (not available on CrossCountry north of Banbury)
- Discounts are available in 1st class with a Gold Card
- No minimum discounted fare of £13 applies with Gold Card discounted ticket on weekdays
- Gold Card discounted tickets can be used from 09:30 on weekdays compared to 10:00 with the Network Railcard
- Gold Card discount can be applied to a PAYG Oyster card for discounted off-peak travel where Oyster is accepted
- You can buy another railcard for yourself of a friend for £10
As noted by @JonathanH Gold Card discounted tickets cannot be used at all on Avanti or with LNER. That means between Stevenage and Kings Cross and Milton Keynes and Euston Gold Card tickets cannot be used with LNER/Avanti but Network Railcard disocunted tickets are valid. Quite farcical really, there's no reason for them to be barred.
That's a new one on me! Everyday's a school day!
It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and I strongly suspect it's an oversight by Southeastern. I'm sure it'll be a case of getting someone in their procing team to set the correct flag. The issue is getting it to someone who understands the problem.
You say that, but it's explicitly stated as being the case on the relevant page on Knowledgebase. LIt makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and I strongly suspect it's an oversight by Southeastern. I'm sure it'll be a case of getting someone in their procing team to set the correct flag. The issue is getting it to someone who understands the problem.
Yes, the discount isn't valid on CrossCountry until Banbury.The not past Banbury on XC rule is pretty bonkers. Does this mean if I jump on a XC train with a discounted gold card ticket from Leamington to Reading holding an all trains via Banbury London terminals ticket I am fare evading??
Thanks for the clarification. The map and tickets should state that though as otherwise you would be pretty much clueless.Yes, the discount isn't valid on CrossCountry until Banbury.
When Chiltern decided to participate in an extension of the Gold Card discounts to cover their full route, CrossCountry chose not to extend the use of such discounts outside the area set as a legacy of Network South East.
There are other instances of tickets not being valid on all operators once discounted. Groupsave being the main one.
The tickets show a discount, and to be eligible for that discount the terms and conditions need to be met.The map and tickets should state that though as otherwise you would be pretty much clueless.
Where can I use my Annual Gold Card?
You can view or download a map of the Annual Gold Card area here (PDF, 82k).
Given that Southeastern are the operator for both routes it must clearly be regarded as a geographic restriction.it's a bit of a grey area as to whether such an Excess is permitted given they're not clearly geographic routes, but equally it's the same TOC for both.
I stand corrected. Thank you.The tickets show a discount, and to be eligible for that discount the terms and conditions need to be met.
The map on the National Rail website shows this. CrossCountry validity ends at Banbury.
View attachment 155893
[Screenshot show map showing validity of the Annual Gold Card in the Banbury area, with a clear end of Cross Country validity.]
From https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/railcards/annual-gold-card/
Yes, absolutely it's just the upgrade that's unavailable with a Gold Card, but I'm not sure I follow your justification. If the discount was so "valuable" then it wouldn't make sense for it to be available on the NSE card, especially as AGC holder could buy themselves a NSE card for just £10.It is surely only the upgrade that doesn't have a gold card discount. Ordinary 'plus high speed' tickets can be discounted by Annual Gold Cards and are valid from St Pancras.
I suspect it is some ruse by the Southeastern pricing manager to discourage annual season ticket holders using a discounted upgrade to circumvent the pricing of 'plus high speed' season tickets.
For example, an anytime day return from London Terminals to Ashford International routed 'plus high speed' can be discounted by an Annual Gold Card
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=1072&dest=AFK&rlc=NGC&rte=131&tkt=SDR
The separate upgrade can't have an Annual Gold Card discount
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=1072&dest=AFK&rte=131&tkt=HUB
but can have a Network Railcard discount
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=1072&dest=AFK&rlc=NEW&rte=131&tkt=HUB
I don't see why not, as long as you possess both an Annual Gold Card and Network Railcard.Other questions this raises: is it valid to buy the upgrade with a NSE card if the original ticket was bought with the AGC?
I asked Southeastern and got a nonsense reply back. If I get time I'll go back to them but the problem is getting this sort of query to the right person who both understands the issue and has the authority to do something about it.Why is the minimum fare not applied for the upgrade, when buying with the NSE card?
I asked Southeastern and got a nonsense reply back. If I get time I'll go back to them but the problem is getting this sort of query to the right person who both understands the issue and has the authority to do something about it.
The HS1 supplement can be discounted with a Network Railcard and no minimum fare is applied.Perhaps the answer is that the minimum fare applies to journeys (any of which requiring the supplement will be over £13) and not tickets.
That it doesn't offer any discounts on Advance tickets?Is there a validity restriction on the Gold Card that I've missed?
FAQs
What discounts can I get with my Annual Gold Card?
You can get 1/3 off:
• Standard and First Class Anytime and Off-Peak tickets for you and up to 3 adults travelling with you
• Off-Peak Day Travelcard Zones 1-6
• Oyster Off-Peak pay as you go single fares and the pay as you go daily price cap for journeys on National Rail and Transport for London rail services, London Underground and DLR. The Annual Gold Card discount will need to be set on an Oyster card. You can ask staff at London Underground and Transport for London rail stations to set the discount for you
• Anytime Day Travelcards when bought as part of your ticket to London from outside London Zones 1-9 (subject to time restrictions and a £17 minimum fare)
• PlusBus Day tickets in the Network Railcard area
Wow, thank you. Hitherto I thought all railcard were largely the same.Appears NOT to offer any discounts on Advance tickets?
Annual Gold Card | National Rail
Get great discounts on your leisure travel in the south of England with an Annual Gold Cardwww.nationalrail.co.uk
Extract...
Possibly still be some folk complaining, either way?!I wonder why BR Fares opts to show no advances, instead of including the undercounted advance fare for the selected journey?
BRFares is not an official source of information.I wonder why BR Fares opts to show no advances, instead of including the undiscounted advance fare for the selected journey?
I wonder why BR Fares opts to show no advances, instead of including the undiscounted advance fare for the selected journey?
Its pretty obvious if you think about it. The reason that HS1 has supplements and not route excesses is that you cant change the route on a season ticket on a daily basis. If you have anytime and off peak route excesses you then dont want the off peak route excess to be discounted again by season ticket holders. The supplement can only be discounted by the same discount thats held by the main ticket.Yes to both. For reasons best known to Southeastern, you can't get a Gold Card discount on the Supplement and Jobcentre Plus discounts aren't valid on High Speed services at all. All other Railcards apply as normal.
Annual Gold Cards don't provide a discount on Advance tickets, and never have. But it's a fair point as this isn't mentioned anywhere in the terms & conditions, only in the FAQ section on the NRE site. Arguably the train companies are in breach of contract by failing to mention a (rather key) restriction they apply in practice. Might be difficult to obtain recourse though.Forgive me for resurrecting an old thread, but I've stumbled across a curiosity with my Annual Gold Card and it looked like a similar topic.
I can't seem to get my Gold Card discount to apply on some journeys for which I believe it should be valid, and where other railcard discounts do apply.
To give a specific example; Tonbridge to Lymington Pier.
If I enter it in BR Fares with no railcard (or any other railcard), I am presented options for Advance fares.
However, if I enter Annual Gold Card in the discount field, I am only presented with walk-up fares.
Is there a validity restriction on the Gold Card that I've missed?
Almost every Railcard has a different set of conditions. Some are valid all day, some from 09:30, some from 10:00, others from whenever an Off-Peak ticket for the journey being made becomes valid. Some have a blanket minimum fare, some have a minimum fare with various exceptions, others don't. It's a complete mess, and the resultant customer confusion is entirely foreseeable - except, it would seem, by those in the rail industry who came up with these rules!Wow, thank you. Hitherto I thought all railcard were largely the same.
Annoyingly, I've definitely booked tickets using my gold card discount before, when I could have used one of my other railcards. Buyer beware.
I wonder why BR Fares opts to show no advances, instead of including the undiscounted advance fare for the selected journey?
EDIT: Corrected spelling
That's as may be, but that isn't the reason it doesn't show Advance fares.BRFares is not an official source of information.
Probably, yes. And the train companies would undoubtedly deem it "too generous" to introduce a discount on Advance tickets for journeys within the Gold Card area.Presume the absence of discounts being available on advance tickets when using an Annual Gold Card is a historic throwback to when advance tickets were few and far between in the Gold Card area?
I didn't say it was but it is still important to be aware of its unofficial status and that it should not be relied on for accuracy - as this thread demonstrates.That's as may be, but that isn't the reason it doesn't show Advance fares.
Bearing in mind that "Not London" really equates, in most cases, to "Not London Terminals", I think Ely or Cambridge to Birmingham "route: not London" is feasible while staying within the Gold Card area - it would just be a slow and unintuitive route, and might involve changing trains, for example, at each of Finsbury Park, Highbury & Islington, Willesden Junction and Watford Junction (also taking care not to use Avanti between Watford and Brum)
Strictly speaking, travel via the London suburbs isn't a permitted route.Bearing in mind that "Not London" really equates, in most cases, to "Not London Terminals", I think Ely or Cambridge to Birmingham "route: not London" is feasible while staying within the Gold Card area - it would just be a slow and unintuitive route, and might involve changing trains, for example, at each of Finsbury Park, Highbury & Islington, Willesden Junction and Watford Junction (also taking care not to use Avanti between Watford and Brum)
It's unofficial and so cannot be relied upon as an official source (even though the official sources are generally much less clear), but it is accurate in this case. It is correctly listing the Gold Card discounted fares that exist in the data.I didn't say it was but it is still important to be aware of its unofficial status and that it should not be relied on for accuracy - as this thread demonstrates.
As above, it is just telling you what is in the industry data. In this case, there aren't any GC-discounted fares, because GTR (who price the fares) only offer "via Peterborough" fares, which by necessity involve travelling outside the GC area.That's a rather interesting point, as on further examination BRFares doesn't give fares for Ely to Huntingdon or St Neots, despite both ends of those journeys being in the Gold Card area. Perhaps it is doing some routing logic. That said, I don't see how you'd manage to do what you suggested without going off a permitted route...