Any information on the Bi-modes for the East Anglia franchise?.

[185143]

By the time of the next Anglia franchise it'd also include Nottingham to Sheffield as well, wouldn't it? You could also look into diverting it via Rainhill (swapping it for one of the new Northern DMUs which could run in it's place via Warrington) to maximise time under the wires.

No, TPE are doing that. We aren't losing all of our intercity services!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[edwin_m]

By the time of the next Anglia franchise it'd also include Nottingham to Sheffield as well, wouldn't it? You could also look into diverting it via Rainhill (swapping it for one of the new Northern DMUs which could run in it's place via Warrington) to maximise time under the wires.

The MML electrification scheme doesn't include the Erewash Valley route that the Norwich-Liverpool uses, so it would only add Chesterfield to Sheffield plus a little bit round Nottingham.

 

[ethernet22]

Apologies if already posted, but I came across this picture today of a Stadler Flirt UK:

It appears to look like a bi-mode, but I'm not entirely sure. Found it at http://www.essexlive.news/1-4-billi...x-and-london/story-29761053-detail/story.html

 

[Firesprite]

Liverpool-Norwich running "under the wires" is limited to Liverpool to South Parkway, Trafford Park to Hazel Grove and Grantham to Peterborough, plus little bits around Ely and Norwich. Doesn't sound worth dragging the extra weight of a bi-mode around for.

The extra weight is only five or six tons, Credit should go to the Dutch for being farsighted. The classes 220,221,222 and 185's should have been bimode from the start when you concide have much time is spent on electrified lines.

 

[332 > 444]

Apologies if already posted, but I came across this picture today of a Stadler Flirt UK:



It appears to look like a bi-mode, but I'm not entirely sure. Found it at http://www.essexlive.news/1-4-billi...x-and-london/story-29761053-detail/story.html

Yep, front definitely modelled on the FLIRT 200 and that does look like the generator carriage in the middle. I understood the bi-modes were to have a more FLIRT3 front to it.

Wonder if the CAF diesels can be made into bi-mode, pretty short sighted if not as the north graduallyget electrified.

 

[47802]

Yep, front definitely modelled on the FLIRT 200 and that does look like the generator carriage in the middle. I understood the bi-modes were to have a more FLIRT3 front to it.

Wonder if the CAF diesels can be made into bi-mode, pretty short sighted if not as the north graduallyget electrified.

They supposedly will be their equivalent of a 172 in terms of transmission so I doubt it, but then there is a whole raft if 1st gen sprinters to get rid of first and given the rate at which electrification is progressing or should I say lack of rate, will most of the northern lines be electrified in my lifetime I doubt it.

I'm presuming the through trains to London from Lowestoft will be the big benefit of the Bi-modes.

Apparently major factors in the decision were delivery timescales and proven design, although the later seems a bit questionable given the Aventra is only at the testing stage, and the flirts will be the first UK versions.

 

[edwin_m]

The CAF DMUs probably have the same bodyshell and bogies as the EMUs, and the loco-hauled for TPE may be similar too (though with different door positions I think). So it might be possible in theory to convert one to the other but it would be a strip-out and replace of most of the underfloor equipment. Not the same thing as the SET or the Stadler units where the transmission is electric so it's just a question of including diesel-generator sets or not.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Stadler EMU/EDMU order has now been signed: https://wwwstadlerrailcom-live-01e9...94bc225286b2/2016_1005_stadler_abellio_en.pdf
I'm not sure the technical details add very much to our knowledge, except the Stansted EMUs will be standard class only.

Another version is here: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-east-anglia-order-for-stadler-trainsets.html
This majors on the funding deal which is through Rock Rail and includes a complex set of funders including the Greater Manchester public sector pension fund.

Stadler’s first major order for UK main line passenger rolling stock covers 58 Flirt UK trainsets to be built in Switzerland.
There will be 10 12-car 25kV 50 Hz inter-city EMUs for London – Norwich services with 628 standard and 80 first class seats plus a bistro, and 10 12-car EMUs for the London – Stansted Airport route with 710 standard class only seats.
The 24 four-car and 14 three-car electro-diesel units for standard class only regional services will have the diesel engines in a mid-train power module car.
The 160 km/h air-conditioned articulated multiple-units will have a floor height of 960 mm, 2+2 seating, wi-fi, power points, real-time passenger information and regenerative braking

And here is Abellio's version: http://www.abellio.com/news/abellio-confirms-deal-stadler-and-rock-rail-new-trains

 

[class387]

Standard only on Stansted Express according to the Railway Gazette article:

Stadler’s first major order for UK main line passenger rolling stock covers 58 Flirt UK trainsets to be built in Switzerland. There will be 10 12-car 25 kV 50 Hz inter-city EMUs for London – Norwich services with 628 standard and 80 first class seats plus a bistro, and 10 12-car EMUs for the London – Stansted Airport route with 710 standard class only seats. The 24 four-car and 14 three-car electro-diesel units for standard class only regional services will have the diesel engines in a mid-train power module car.

 

[47802]

Standard only on Stansted Express according to the Railway Gazette article:

Interesting are the Aventra's going to be Standard class only as well?

 

[edwin_m]

Standard only on Stansted Express according to the Railway Gazette article:

I guess given the sort of airline that uses Stansted, the practice on other airport links of providing first class at eye-watering fares for those that aren't paying for themselves won't work here. It does make them something of a micro-fleet though.

 

[class387]

I guess given the sort of airline that uses Stansted, the practice on other airport links of providing first class at eye-watering fares for those that aren't paying for themselves won't work here. It does make them something of a micro-fleet though.

Yes, I would have thought making the Norwich and Stansted FLIRTs interchangable would have been a good idea.

 

[jopsuk]

as I note in the other thread- Norwich sets to have 708 seats total, of which 80 1st class, with a buffet. Stansted sets to have 710 seats total, all standard, no buffet. In the same length of train. Points to the Norwich sets being predominantly airline seating with luggage capacity tilted towards commuter use, whilst the Stansted sets will presumably have lots of luggage space and maybe more bay/table seating?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think having microfleets for airport services is all that surprising. Plenty of places do it due to the very specific requirements (large amounts of luggage space, primarily).

 

[jopsuk]

So the DMU fleet is currently theoretically:
5x 1 car 153
9x 2 car 156
4x 2 car 170
8x 3 car 170

26 units, 55 carriages. Plus a couple of loco hauled sets partly because not all those units are available and their reliability is awful

Notwithstanding that they will be shorter carriages likely, that fleet becomes

24x 4 car
14x 3 car

(plus the power units)

38 units, 138 carriages

That's a massive increase in the fleet

 

[class387]

as I note in the other thread- Norwich sets to have 708 seats total, of which 80 1st class, with a buffet. Stansted sets to have 710 seats total, all standard, no buffet. In the same length of train. Points to the Norwich sets being predominantly airline seating with luggage capacity tilted towards commuter use, whilst the Stansted sets will presumably have lots of luggage space and maybe more bay/table seating?

Perhaps the First Class will be something like the offering on Gatwick Express' 387s, meaning the only difference between the FLIRTs would be buffet vs more luggage space.

 

[edwin_m]

26 units, 55 carriages.

Notwithstanding that they will be shorter carriages likely, that fleet becomes

24x 4 car
14x 3 car

(plus the power units)

38 units, 138 carriages

That's a massive increase in the fleet

I think people are saying the power units will be within the passenger cars (behind the cabs). If there is one each end of each unit, this will reduce the disparity by about 25 car equivalents at a guess.

Also the London leg of the East Suffolk and any other through journeys is effectively replacing part of the EMU fleet not the DMU fleet.

So still a good deal but maybe not quite as good as first impressions suggest.

 

[jopsuk]

I think people are saying the power units will be within the passenger cars (behind the cabs).

Read the Railway Gazette link posted a few posts back- it says

diesel engines in a mid-train power module car.

 

[NotATrainspott]

These trains have a 960mm floor height, which is significantly lower than the standard ~1100mm height and much closer to the standard 915mm platform height. That's going to be a first for a rail unit in GB, surely?

 

[Bletchleyite]

These trains have a 960mm floor height, which is significantly lower than the standard ~1100mm height and much closer to the standard 915mm platform height. That's going to be a first for a rail unit in GB, surely?

I did wonder if they'd go low floor with them given that that is Stadler's big thing. Surprised they didn't go for 915mm for level boarding, indeed. But that's still only 5cm step up - impressive.

 

[Greybeard33]

These trains have a 960mm floor height, which is significantly lower than the standard ~1100mm height and much closer to the standard 915mm platform height. That's going to be a first for a rail unit in GB, surely?

It depends what you call a "rail unit in GB". Manchester Metrolink trams, Tyne & Wear Metrocars and DLR EMUs all have level boarding from standard height platforms.

 

[47802]

I think people are saying the power units will be within the passenger cars (behind the cabs). If there is one each end of each unit, this will reduce the disparity by about 25 car equivalents at a guess.

Also the London leg of the East Suffolk and any other through journeys is effectively replacing part of the EMU fleet not the DMU fleet.

So still a good deal but maybe not quite as good as first impressions suggest.

Indeed isn't it the case that 10 units isn't enough for 3 trains per hour between Norwich and London, so possibly some will be worked by Regional units with perhaps some in pairs which split at Ipswich with one unit going to Norwich and the other going Lowestoft.

 

[Wivenswold]

Indeed isn't it the case that 10 units isn't enough for 3 trains per hour between Norwich and London, so possibly some will be worked by Regional units with perhaps some in pairs which split at Ipswich with one unit going to Norwich and the other going Lowestoft.

I'm sure I'd read somewhere that it would be three trains per hour London to Norwich, though the Stadler bi-modes could make one per hour via Cambridge possible.

As I mentioned in the other thread, there will be 22 x fixed 10 car Aventras sitting around between peaks that could easily cover a few Norwich - London workings.

 

[Firesprite]

as I note in the other thread- Norwich sets to have 708 seats total, of which 80 1st class, with a buffet. Stansted sets to have 710 seats total, all standard, no buffet. In the same length of train. Points to the Norwich sets being predominantly airline seating with luggage capacity tilted towards commuter use, whilst the Stansted sets will presumably have lots of luggage space and maybe more bay/table seating?

That's only 60 seats per coach, so hardly cramming them in.

 

[Dave1987]

Indeed isn't it the case that 10 units isn't enough for 3 trains per hour between Norwich and London, so possibly some will be worked by Regional units with perhaps some in pairs which split at Ipswich with one unit going to Norwich and the other going Lowestoft.

Huh? There are going to be about three or four direct services from London to Lowestoft a day not one per hour. As has been said already and been said in Modern Railways mag the additional Norwich service is highly likely to be an extension of the existing London - Ipswich service using the 345's.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Standard only on Stansted Express according to the Railway Gazette article:

Are the mini cars that include a generator only counted as a "car" out of the number per train or in addition? If so some of the trains may be a little shorter than we thought...

 

[47802]

Huh? There are going to be about three or four direct services from London to Lowestoft a day not one per hour. As has been said already and been said in Modern Railways mag the additional Norwich service is highly likely to be an extension of the existing London - Ipswich service using the 345's.

Some or all of the third train per hour could be Aventra's or some or all could be the Bi-modes some of which split at Ipswich for Norwich and Lowestoft, or it may be a completely separate train between London and Lowestoft, although one imagines the Regional Bi-Modes will be nearer to Intercity Spec than the Aventra's, in any case I never suggested it was hourly to Lowestoft, either way clearly some of the Bi-Modes will effectively replacing EMU as well as DMU working we just don't know how much at the moment. So as discussed previously it not a straight increase from 55 to 138 Diesel vehicles.

 

[306024]

Are the mini cars that include a generator only counted as a "car" out of the number per train or in addition? If so some of the trains may be a little shorter than we thought...

Nope, don't include that bit in the vehicle count.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's only 60 seats per coach, so hardly cramming them in.

To be fair they are only short coaches, 18m I think. The SBB regional ones only have 12 bays per coach in second class, or a total of 48 seats, and while they aren't packed in they aren't generous either. Take away one double door and replace the other with a single door and that would, on the same spacing, get you 60 seats per coach, the figure being mentioned. So that sounds about right.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps the First Class will be something like the offering on Gatwick Express' 387s, meaning the only difference between the FLIRTs would be buffet vs more luggage space.

I very much doubt that on InterCity trains. 2+1 is very likely.

 

[themiller]

http://www.bahnonline.ch/bo/blog/15...er-58-flirt-abellio-east-anglia-rock-rail.htm has the Swiss view on the order with a some pictures.
Sorry, you'll have to do your own translation!