Anyone else being messed around by Graduate Recruiters?

[Nym]

Well, certain companies that will remain nameless in case their HR managers are on here have kept me hanging on with no contact and changing their minds for the last three months, and some consulting firms and rolling stock manufacturers don't even provide contact details to phone / email to check the progress of your application.

Is it just me, or is it all graduate recruiters (well, most of them) that seem to get a kick out of messing people around this year since they think it's an employer's market with a lot of graduates, not realising the lack of good quality engineering graduates?

 

[Simon11]

In some way I have to agree with you.

I applied for the Finance scheme for Network Rail last October, and on the website it still says

"Current Application Status

Application Received"

In cases like that, I would agree that leaving people to wait that long is nonsense!

However I would have a punt that they haven't turned down people until they have handed out the contracts to the successful candidates, just in case they don't find the talent they want, during the first stages of the process!

Also note that alot of companies don't simply have the time to spend replying to candidates which don't match their requirements.

I'm glad that I've already got a job(Note just a normal regular job in the rail industry - don't always focus on the graduate schemes!) after finishing uni last year and in a few months moving on to a much bigger role with a new company that offers more opportunities than NR

 

[Nym]

Oh NR are a good one, they keep changing their mind on my application, it's been on hold several times... TBH, the're too late, another company offered me a job for more money, but in London (See other threads), on a graduate scheme, but one of the assessors would have employed me for a normal position anyway! It's actually getting to the point where the speed of their HR dept. is making me reconsider if I want a job with them...

 

[Hydro]

I wouldn't say this was a problem exclusive to recruiters of graduates. I've received a call from an HR department with a confirmed start date for a job...3 days after starting and mid way through an important induction. I got fed up of waiting for a call back and emailed my line manager-to-be directly asking when he wanted me in the office.

HR tends to be a notoriously difficult department to deal with in any organisation, by any one.

 

[AntoniC]

While a civil servant (still am after 24 years :cry I once applied for 3 different jobs in succession on level transfer (for which I was successful in all).

Job 1 - No start date (despite me asking numerous times)

Job 2 - Start date given so I jib job 1 for job 2

Job 3 - Not told if if it was a permanent or temporary job so I declined.

So dont worry your HR department is as good as mine !

 

[Bellwater]

When i first started as a Guard(Internal promotion)i heard nothing for ages and ages about a start date. i ended up pulling Central's HR Director to one side at a roadshow thingy and asking him what they were doing in 102..

 

[Mike C]

Nym - at what stage in the process are you having trouble? Is it after an interview, or on initial application?

We have had links with Arup for years and I know a couple of guys in the London office - they know things move slowly sometimes. It is typical of a large organisation.

 

[Nym]

Nym - at what stage in the process are you having trouble? Is it after an interview, or on initial application?

We have had links with Arup for years and I know a couple of guys in the London office - they know things move slowly sometimes. It is typical of a large organisation.

Inital application post phycometric testing at ARUP, have now emailed them in an attempt to kick them up their backsides and get them into gear, because if I don't hear anything positive from ARUP, (Another three companies beginning with A) and a fair few others (Four companies) that havn't done anything other than confirm receiving my application, or the other remaining six to offer me any kind of face to face I'll be withdrawing my applications to them and from what I have been told by a rather large transport firm it will be their loss.

And I don't think it's typical of a large orginisation...

ABB managed to have me through two interviews and phycometric testing by now, from an application in January, as have the company who have offered me a position. These are both rather large, Thales have turned round and said no, but did so in reasonable time, Babcock have managed it, so have JLR and Atkins... So I don't see what is up with these other companies.

I think it's just large companies with their head up their backsides that take their times. Not to blow the trumpet of my profession, but there is a shortage of Electrical Engineers in this country, and a shortage of good quality E&EE Graduates to recruit from, if they don't hurry up they'll miss the pick of the litter and will end up with the dreggs, or nothing.

Please note: I'm at one of the largest and best schools of E&EE in the country, and I wouldn't employ half of the people graduating this year.

 

[sprinterguy]

I wouldn't say that this sort of approach constitutes being "messed around", although it does display less than optimal communication practices from the companies concerned.

I know of applications that have specifically stated that you shouldn't expect to hear anything from them unless you're application is successful. I don't see why this is a problem, just get on with it and keep on applying for other roles in the mean time. At the end of the day the critical piece of information is whether you have made it through to the next stage of the assessment process and ultimately whether you have got the job or not, any additional communication is a welcome bonus. Although it is quite essential to know the dates of assessment centres and interviews well in advance to ensure that they don't clash with anything else.

Personally, I'm just grateful when I make it as far as interview stage of applications.

 

[Nym]

Oh, it's not the ones that havn't contacted me at all that is anoying, it's those who say, "We'll respond within 2 weeks" or "You have passed the phone interview, we are now shortlisting candidates for available vacancies" (Two months ago) that gets my back up, I know most employers don't have the balls to say, "Sorry, but no thanks" to unsucsessful candidates, it's not like it's hard since they all use Thaleo, Gradweb or GTI nowerdays and they can do that automatically with the click one ONE button, it's being messed around when they keep setting their own deadlines and breaking them the sodds me off the most.

That or when it's blatantly obvious what the're doing...

"We're very impessed with your application, please take this phyco test"
9 days later
"Your application is on hold"
32 days later
"Please take this other phyco tests"

Someone has been using phycometric testing as a bible to screen candidates and that is never a good idea, ABB where kind enough to go through the results of mine with me and they didn't even ask me to sit them until after a 1st interview with the section manager that wanted to employ me, and the test was proven wrong in many major scored aspects. And not only using them as a bible, but passing on the following tests and running an assessment centre with other candidates, finding out the're useless and then coming back to me as a 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice, then when you email them 5 weeks after taking the 2nd phyco tests to ask what the're playing at taking so long over it, I'll be withdrawing my application soon for having another job offer...

Dear *****



Thank you for your continued interest in ******* *****.



Further to your email please be advised that we are currently in the process of shortlisting candidates for our forthcoming assessment centres.



We appreciate your patience during this time and would like to assure you that we will be in touch with an update on your application as soon as possible.



If in the meantime you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact the team.



Kind Regards,



********** *** Graduate Recruitment

Sorry, but how long does it take to shortlist candidates...?

A similar company managed the whole recruiting process end to end in about 2 months, with a shed tonne of applications for different sectors, why can't this one?

 

[LCC106]

Hmmm... I understand your frustration, really, but your attitude leads a lot to be desired - especially since, as you say, management may lurk on the forums. If you lack confidence in the recruitment processes you have to think long and hard about whether these are companies you would wish to work for i.e. is this a reflection of the way in which they work generally? Are they simply swamped with applications, departmental sickness, other more pressing (and last minute) issues within the business etc.? From your comments, it's obvious that you are currently doing this and such reflection is important to make sure you get the job that's right for you at the company that's right for you.

If, as you say, "there is a shortage of Electrical Engineers in this country, and a shortage of good quality E&EE Graduates to recruit from" then you should be able to secure pretty much any job you wish. May be time to move on! Good luck with it all.

 

[Waddon]

I have worked in several different business sectors, but from my experience of applying for several rail jobs, the rail sector has some of the worst recruitment and personnel departments I've ever come across, being rude and unhelpful on the phone, sending out incorrect information (for instance saying "attend on Wednesday 25th" of a month where Wednesday did not fall on a 25th being a good example), attempting to interview me for roles I never applied for or was interested in (Applied for an office based admin job, got an application form for some sort of on-train security guard role) , even sending out letters inviting me to interviews after the date of the interview

 

[LCC106]

Hmm... Not good, Waddon. It seems in many respects of the way in which it operates that the railway industry falls behind many other private and public sector practices. Unfortunately I don't know the answer to it all. If I did I would be one rich person!

 

[Nym]

Wow, this inferstucture company never ceases to amase me, got a call on Monday morning to invite me to an assessment centre THIS FRIDAY!

Who on this earth thinks that this is enough notice to move lab times round, get extra lecture notes, and change round three meetings?

Needless to say that...

A 2 hour lecture, an hour's lab time, a dissertation supervior meeting, a meeting with the head of graduate education, a meeting with a Prof. of robotics and meeting someone for the weekend couldn't get moved...

 

[ralphchadkirk]

If you don't want the job enough to go to the recruitment day then pull out and give someone else a chance!


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[richw]

That's quite a lot of notice for an invite, a lot of companys give short notice, as an interested prospective employee will be able to make time for interviews. It will show them how much you want the job.


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[Nym]

If you don't want the job enough to go to the recruitment day then pull out and give someone else a chance!

I told them over the phone I couldn't attend to don't go biting my head off...

And it's not a case of not wanting the job enough, some of us need to plan and schedule things weeks in advance to fit them in, and don't have the luxary of 2 or 3 timetabled events per week!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's quite a lot of notice for an invite, a lot of companys give short notice, as an interested prospective employee will be able to make time for interviews. It will show them how much you want the job.

Ohhh, so thats why every other recruiter has provided 3 or more weeks notice, and hasn't cocked out about at every turn while they take 2 months to make their mind up. So it's everyone else that's wrong and these that are right, thanks for clearing that up...(!)

This isn't an hour or so in Manchester that I proberbly could have made time for, this is a whole day in Coventry, 3 hours travelling time each way, and I have booked appointments from 11am to 9pm on Friday with 7 different people, I can't move that for ANY employer!

Please note, this is the same recruiter I'm on about earlier on in this thread, so you can have some idea of timescale.

 

[richw]

Every interview I've ever had has been 3 or 4 days notice, so definitely seems the normal.
Many firms do that to see how much you want the job, by if you willing to drop other things short notice.

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[Mike C]

When I was summoned to McLaren Racing for an interview years ago, it was at 28 hours notice. It turns out that was intentional on their part and was the first part of the assessment for suitability - how well one can organise things, prioritise and how dedicated you are to the job was important to them. Years later when I was the one flipping through CV's and arranging with HR to get interviewees in, if the candidate didn't accept the first slot given to them, they were offered a second (which is only fair), but if they declined that (having initially accepted it), or kept haggling they were not given a 3rd chance. End of story.

Now, none of that says this employer that you are dealing with is testing your attitude already, but be aware that it DOES happen.

Other psychological factors are employed also. For example, I've interviewed people in a room with glass walls where many of the staff can see in. It heightens the stress a little for the candidate. If they buckle under the stress, there are probably better candidates out there.

That said, an interview is a two-way process and you should always get your chance to play your hand and ask your questions too. I would be wary of any candidate that copes with the pressure well but doesn't ask any of their own questions. There's so much to interview technique from both sides of the fence.