Approach control at Junctions

[strange6]

Is this still mandatory? At Lostock Junction near Wigan, the diverging route towards Westhoughton is at a lower speed coming off the main line towards Chorley and Preston. Now sometimes when i'm on the train, the junction signal is held at red until the train is quite near to it and then it clears. On other occasions, the train can be quite a distance away and the junction signal can already be pulled off (complete with the feather lit for the left hand divergence towards Westhoughton). Who's right?

 

[Tomnick]

The junction signal itself can be cleared when the train is still some way in rear of it, as long as (if I'm not mistaken!) the Driver won't see the proceed aspect before the junction indicator. Obviously the signal in rear won't clear beyond a single yellow (assuming we're talking approach control from red, and not flashing yellows...?). Some form of approach control is definitely required, otherwise there'd be nothing to advise the Driver sufficiently early that the route's set for the lower-speed route.

 

[Zoe]

Some form of approach control is definitely required, otherwise there'd be nothing to advise the Driver sufficiently early that the route's set for the lower-speed route.

Back in the old days though, would there have been a requirment to check a train at a junction signal with a slow speed diverging route? 39A would only have applied if the signalman couldn't clear all the signals for the route. Was the driver back then expected to remember that the diverging route was slow speed?

 

[driver9000]

Is this still mandatory? At Lostock Junction near Wigan, the diverging route towards Westhoughton is at a lower speed coming off the main line towards Chorley and Preston. Now sometimes when i'm on the train, the junction signal is held at red until the train is quite near to it and then it clears. On other occasions, the train can be quite a distance away and the junction signal can already be pulled off (complete with the feather lit for the left hand divergence towards Westhoughton). Who's right?

Lostock Junction on the Down was fitted with a flashing yellow aspect for the Westhoughton line last summer so both situations you describe are correct signalling

 

[strange6]

Lostock Junction on the Down was fitted with a flashing yellow aspect for the Westhoughton line last summer so both situations you describe are correct signalling



That's interesting. Looking at the signal itself when I quickly shoot past it, it appears to be one of the new LED type signals with what only appears to be a one aspect head. I have never seen this particular signal giving a flashing yellow - only a red and green aspect.

 

[driver9000]

That's interesting. Looking at the signal itself when I quickly shoot past it, it appears to be one of the new LED type signals with what only appears to be a one aspect head. I have never seen this particular signal giving a flashing yellow - only a red and green aspect.

Sorry I should have been clearer. You are correct in that the signal protecting the junction is an LED 3 aspect 'searchlight'. The flashing yellow if given would be displayed at the signal in rear (not far past the block of flats on the left). This work was carried out last summer around the same time the junction signal was moved about 200yds further back from the junction (As I recall this was to give a slightly better sighting). I'm told the flasher unit can be tempremental at times meaning it's hit and miss as to whether trains can be given it, I don't sign Westhoughton so I've never seen it flash anyway.

 

[Tomnick]

Back in the old days though, would there have been a requirment to check a train at a junction signal with a slow speed diverging route? 39A would only have applied if the signalman couldn't clear all the signals for the route. Was the driver back then expected to remember that the diverging route was slow speed?

The distant would be on though (or splitting distant cleared for the diverging route), which provides some form of approach control. Not sure when the requirement came in to additionally check a passenger train diverted off booked route (that accident between Newcastle and Edinburgh - Goswick??)

 

[strange6]

Sorry I should have been clearer. You are correct in that the signal protecting the junction is an LED 3 aspect 'searchlight'. The flashing yellow if given would be displayed at the signal in rear (not far past the block of flats on the left). This work was carried out last summer around the same time the junction signal was moved about 200yds further back from the junction (As I recall this was to give a slightly better sighting). I'm told the flasher unit can be tempremental at times meaning it's hit and miss as to whether trains can be given it, I don't sign Westhoughton so I've never seen it flash anyway.


Never seen the signal in rear flash as well! lol 9 times out of 10 it displays a normal single yellow for trains going through Westhoughton

 

[pendolino]

Approach control doesn't exist

 

[strange6]

Now that will start off a debate!

 

[GB]

No debate required as it does exist. What is taught to drivers or how they are told to perceive signals is another matter.