Are concessionary pass holders 'entitled freeloaders'?

[Baxenden Bank]

Hear Hear !!

I have a similar situation paying for my mother's stay in a nursing home at the moment.

Not only do we have to pay the full fee without any assistance, but that fee is inflated to subsidise residents whose care is 100% paid for by the local authority. In others words, we pay more than the going rate so that the local authority can get away with paying less than the going rate.

One needs to look at the 'fake' debt and 'usurious' interest rates the vulture capital care home operators charge themselves intra-group too. But that is off-topic.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I do have one question, though - do bus companies get reimbursed twice for someone carrying a companion card? If yes, then I can see that abusing companion entitlement could become quite costly (or extra income for the bus company); if not, what's the point of trying to enforce it?

In Scotland, drivers are prompted to select if the pass-holder is travelling with a companion before issuing the ticket. I imagine this affects the reimbursement that the operator receives. I'm not sure it's the same in England.

It's also worth noting that the Scottish reimbursement scheme is, I believe, different to England: operators are reimbursed with the relevant %age of the adult single fare, rather than the average single fare. So the further someone travels, the more reimbursement the operator receives. This is why concession paper tickets are still issued in Scotland, so that random spot-checks can be carried out to ensure drivers haven't been issuing tickets further than a passenger is going, so the company is reimbursed more.

 

[GusB]

In Scotland, drivers are prompted to select if the pass-holder is travelling with a companion before issuing the ticket. I imagine this affects the reimbursement that the operator receives

Thanks - I suspected that there might be some sort of mechanism for recording the companion, but I wasn't 100% sure.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I object to the use of the word "freeloaders" in the title of this thread. On Mondays to Fridays before 0930 hours, when the working population travels to work by bus, the concessionary pass holders are kept away from travelling by the non-validity of the pass prior to that time on those days and if the concessionary pass holders wishes to travel prior to that time, they are liable for payment of the full fare.

Many such people have noticed that the NHS hospital appointments register teams take a sadistic delight in arranging 0900 hospital appointments for the elderly...

 

[lachlan]

I object to the use of the word "freeloaders" in the title of this thread. On Mondays to Fridays before 0930 hours, when the working population travels to work by bus, the concessionary pass holders are kept away from travelling by the non-validity of the pass prior to that time on those days and if the concessionary pass holders wishes to travel prior to that time, they are liable for payment of the full fare.

Many such people have noticed that the NHS hospital appointments register teams take a sadistic delight in arranging 0900 hospital appointments for the elderly...

Also means disabled people (or elderly for that matter) can’t use the pass for many jobs, which would be a big reason for using public transport.

Personally I’m all for free/increasingly subsidised public transport, and see these passes and railcards as the first step towards that.

 

[duncanp]

I object to the use of the word "freeloaders" in the title of this thread. On Mondays to Fridays before 0930 hours, when the working population travels to work by bus, the concessionary pass holders are kept away from travelling by the non-validity of the pass prior to that time on those days and if the concessionary pass holders wishes to travel prior to that time, they are liable for payment of the full fare.

Many such people have noticed that the NHS hospital appointments register teams take a sadistic delight in arranging 0900 hospital appointments for the elderly...

Some local authorities have arrangements whereby passholders who need to travel before 09:30 can travel at reduced rates.

In Birmingham for example, there is a concession fare of £1 instead of the usual £2.40. If you need to travel frequently before 09:30, you can get an add on to your ENCTS pass giving you unlimited travel for the reduced rate of £33.00 per month.

I also don't agree with the term "freeloaders". It is rather like labelling everyone on benefits as workshy lazy scroungers. The pensioners of today will have worked and paid taxes in the past, paying for the pensions of previous generations in the expectation that future generations would do the same for then.

I personally would have no objection to paying a reasonable sum of money, say £250 per annum, for my ENCTS pass, IF that money could be ringfenced and put towards the cost of maintaining socially necessary but unprofitable bus services.

 

[175mph]

I object to the use of the word "freeloaders" in the title of this thread. On Mondays to Fridays before 0930 hours, when the working population travels to work by bus, the concessionary pass holders are kept away from travelling by the non-validity of the pass prior to that time on those days and if the concessionary pass holders wishes to travel prior to that time, they are liable for payment of the full fare.

Many such people have noticed that the NHS hospital appointments register teams take a sadistic delight in arranging 0900 hospital appointments for the elderly...

That doesn't apply to all council areas, for example North Lincolnshire pass holders or Hull pass holders can make journeys using their passes any time of the day or night as long as the journey begins in their respective areas.

An ex-First South Yorkshire driver told me that Doncaster council had a policy with their pass holders could use their passes for travel to hospitals anytime before 9:30 if they brought with them their appointment letters.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That doesn't apply to all council areas, for example North Lincolnshire pass holders or Hull pass holders can make journeys using their passes any time of the day or night as long as the journey begins in their respective areas.

What percentage of the large conurbations with the biggest transport budgets allow what you state above?

 

[Deerfold]

Unable to travel alone at all then.

I'm not clear. Should passengers who are able to make some journeys on their own not get a companion pass, even though they need a companion for other journeys, or should they not be allowed to travel on their own if they have a companion pass?

 

[175mph]

What percentage of the large conurbations with the biggest transport budgets allow what you state above?

At present, I am currently unsure of that percentage.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I object to the use of the word "freeloaders" in the title of this thread.

It's objectionable and offensive. So are those individuals who believe that an entitlement to a pass also confers priority when getting on a bus.

 

[markymark2000]

I suppose the equivalent would be a disabled passholder taking a companion along even though the journey was for the companion's benefit.

Here is one of the ways in which they are freeloaders.

Another way that I would say is the fact passholders identities are never checked. EVER. I believe there are people fraudulently using someone elses pass knowing full well that the photos aren't checked and it's known that there is no enforcement of any kind on local buses so people use others passes. No one will ever know. If a 20 year old gets on with an OAP pass, granted it will raise eyebrows but the disabled conc passes can be issued at any age.

You've also got the fact that when an OAP loses their pass, they often beg for free travel. 'Oh I've left my pass at home', 'I've lost it'. Well in that case, pay up like everyone else. If I forget my weekly ticket, I don't get let on for free, why should they get on for free when they have forgotten their pass?


Other issues include instances such as travelling miles away by bus just because it's free versus using the train or using buses in other areas, just because they are free (like when on holiday). Tourist hotspots come to mind and often why their bus services are so poor and fares so high because of the freeloaders. If they can afford the holiday, they can afford a few quid for the bus. In my area, come about 10ish, a good number of pass holders come out of the pubs and so after spending goodness knows how much per pint, they then use their pass to get home. If you're paying the silly prices for pints, you can afford your bus fare home.



The rest of my comment about them being entitled and that I would say is the biggest part to focus on. This is noticeable when the schemes are reduced and there suddenly becomes uproar that everyone is against them because they are being told to pay up for their bus fare. Also, there is a huge upset in Halton because they are on the Cheshire concessionary scheme but they are part of the Liverpool City Region and Merseyside pass holders get train and ferry included in their pass. Cheshire doesn't.
After Covid when the restrictions on passes got put back in place, there was some upset in some areas that councils were forcing social isolation and all the normal rubbish that they spout.
When a bus is about to be cut, they all complain but god forbid they ever put a penny into the bus service to make it viable. I have a free pass, why should I pay. Granted the reimbursement isn't their fault but no one forces them to use their bus pass. They can always pay for a fare.

Other ways in which they are entitled are already listed on this thread with things like pushing in. Go to Birmingham and it's like a rugby scrum for the pass holders. Normal fare payers don't have a chance. But hey, they are quick to moan and kick off if you're stood further up in the line than you should be or even if you stand near the front but have no intention of boarding early, they are quick to have you. I think that's just an old person thing though rather than pass holders, just coincidence pass holders are mostly old people.

I agree it would be political suicide to withdraw the scheme though

It is impossible for bus services to continue though on the current scheme. It's being seen now more than ever. Pass heavy routes being cut because they can't make them viable and they lose so much money. A much better scheme needs to be introduced by reducing how free the pass is while still keeping it in place. Reducing how free the pass is, with the same budget, means more reimbursement per pass and that is what is needed more than anything.

I object to the use of the word "freeloaders" in the title of this thread. On Mondays to Fridays before 0930 hours, when the working population travels to work by bus, the concessionary pass holders are kept away from travelling by the non-validity of the pass prior to that time on those days and if the concessionary pass holders wishes to travel prior to that time, they are liable for payment of the full fare.

There are 83 "Travel Concessionary Authorities" in England with 81 answered the DFTs Concessionary Bus Statistics (Isle of Scilly has no bus service and Hull has no data). Of those 81, 45 offer pre 0930 travel to both OAPs and disabled pass holders and a further 25 offer pre 0930 travel to disabled pass holders. so 55% of authorities give pre 0930 travel to OAPs.
(source, Govt Concessionary Bus Statistics: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/bus08-concessionary-travel Table Bus0841)

 

[duncanp]

Other ways in which they are entitled are already listed on this thread with things like pushing in. Go to Birmingham and it's like a rugby scrum for the pass holders. Normal fare payers don't have a chance. But hey, they are quick to moan and kick off if you're stood further up in the line than you should be or even if you stand near the front but have no intention of boarding early, they are quick to have you. I think that's just an old person thing though rather than pass holders, just coincidence pass holders are mostly old people.

Complete and utter codswallop.

I use buses in Birmingham nearly every day, on an ENCTS disabled persons pass, and I have never seen the behaviour you describe.

And nearly everyone in Birmingham says thank you to the driver when the get off the bus, which is not something I saw when I lived in London.

I don't doubt that some people fraudulently use ENCTS passes - in which case if the fraud is proven they should have their pass confiscated and be made to pay the full fare. But fraudulent use of the ENCTS pass scheme is not a reason in itself to withdraw or curtail the scheme - you need to have strong enough sanctions in place to act as a deterrent.

And as for identities never being checked National Express West Midlands have a team of roving ticket inspectors who will target buses on main routes into the city. The bus pulls up at the stop and the inspectors get on and everyone's ticket is checked. The bus is not allowed to move off until the ticket check has been completed, and anyone with a ticket irregularity, including ENCTS pass holders, is made to get off the bus whilst the matter is dealt with.

I do agree that the financial impact of the ENCTS scheme on bus services needs to be looked at. I am on record on this thread as saying that I wouldn't mind paying up to £300 per year for an ENCTS pass, provided the money can be ringfenced to support unprofitable but socially necessary bus services. Those who are on low incomes could still get their pass for free if they send in supporting evidence when renewing their pass.

When my mother lived in Poole, her local service was a "pass heavy" route. (More Bus 60 : Poole - Sandbanks Ferry). The service only runs hourly for most of the year, and is frequently late because only one bus is used on the route, and the theoretical end to end running time of 25 minutes is often exceeded because of traffic delays along Sandbanks Road. Whilst the service is commerically run, there is not enough money to run it more frequently, or use an extra bus to provide more reliability. My mother used to say that she would much rather pay £1 or even £2 per journey IF it could guarantee a more frequent and reliable service, and I know other pass holders sharethe same view.

The question of people travelling long distances on an ENCTS pass needs to be reviewed as well. With changes in technology it should be possible to record the issuing authority for each ENCTS journey, and that issuing authority should be made to pay for the journey, rather than the authority for the area in which the journey was made. This would help areas such as Blackpool, Brighton and Bournemouth, who shouldn't have to pay the fares for people from London, Manchester and Nottingham who make journeys in those areas.

 

[Falcon1200]

Go to Birmingham and it's like a rugby scrum for the pass holders. Normal fare payers don't have a chance. But hey, they are quick to moan and kick off if you're stood further up in the line than you should be or even if you stand near the front but have no intention of boarding early, they are quick to have you.

I regularly use buses in two areas, the West of Scotland where I live, using my pensioner's pass, and in Oxford when visiting family, where I pay full fare as my Scottish pass is not valid, and I have never seen such behaviour, ever. The passholders/old people of Birmingham must be an especially nasty lot......

 

[duncanp]

The passholders/old people of Birmingham must be an especially nasty lot......

They aren't.

That assertion may well be based on a few people at one bus stop, and I don't deny that some old people can be curmudgeonly old g***.

But expanding one incident to a needless and baseless generalisation is just wrong.

You might just as well say the same thing about young people and football fans. Some people in these two groups undoubtedly do misbehave, including on public transport. Yet it would be quite unfair to make generalisations about football fans and young people based on the behaviour of a small minority.

 

[Wolfie]

Each year that passes, a new tranche of entitled people qualify for the pass, having reached the qualifying age requirements.

You neglect to mention the fact that many of the oldest age-entitled individuals sadly die.

 

[markymark2000]

Complete and utter codswallop.

I use buses in Birmingham nearly every day, on an ENCTS disabled persons pass, and I have never seen the behaviour you describe.

Ok, I must have been dreaming then. I witnessed it multiple times while in the West Midlands. For some specifics, it happened at Perry Barr, Birmingham City Centre and also in Walsall. I've travelled far and wide and I've seen, and been on the receiving end of this behaviour many a time. Just depends on personal experience.

I don't doubt that some people fraudulently use ENCTS passes - in which case if the fraud is proven they should have their pass confiscated and be made to pay the full fare. But fraudulent use of the ENCTS pass scheme is not a reason in itself to withdraw or curtail the scheme - you need to have strong enough sanctions in place to act as a deterrent.

I agree, fraud should be combatted but there simply isn't enough people to check tickets. Numbers of inspectors these days is extremely low. I know my local Stagecoach area has 1 ticket inspector but due to rules regarding safety, they can't do anything because they have to work in teams. The majority of companies I know have 0 revenue inspectors.

And as for identities never being checked National Express West Midlands have a team of roving ticket inspectors who will target buses on main routes into the city. The bus pulls up at the stop and the inspectors get on and everyone's ticket is checked. The bus is not allowed to move off until the ticket check has been completed, and anyone with a ticket irregularity, including ENCTS pass holders, is made to get off the bus whilst the matter is dealt with.

The fact NXWM has them, does surprise me a little bit but it's still extremely rare. Ask most drivers when they last saw a ticket inspector, they will tell you over 5 years. Perhaps Birmingham is tacking the issue more than other areas and hence why you have seen that but I assure you, it isn't the same everywhere else.

When my mother lived in Poole, her local service was a "pass heavy" route. (More Bus 60 : Poole - Sandbanks Ferry). The service only runs hourly for most of the year, and is frequently late because only one bus is used on the route, and the theoretical end to end running time of 25 minutes is often exceeded because of traffic delays along Sandbanks Road. Whilst the service is commerically run, there is not enough money to run it more frequently, or use an extra bus to provide more reliability. My mother used to say that she would much rather pay £1 or even £2 per journey IF it could guarantee a more frequent and reliable service, and I know other pass holders sharethe same view.

I think this view is around a 50/50 split. Many claim to be willing to pay but when it comes down to it, wouldn't put a penny near the service because 'why should I. I have put money into the system for years' (quote from a few years ago having a discussion about routes being cut in pass heavy areas).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You neglect to mention the fact that many of the oldest age-entitled individuals sadly die.

Since my dear wife died last November, just seven days prior to her 80th birthday in her nursing home, and like me an ENCTS pass holder (and also the holder of a Senior Citizen 3-year railcard), that is a fact that I am well aware of. But new recipients still are added each passing year.

 

[Eyersey468]

Since my dear wife died last November, just seven days prior to her 80th birthday in her nursing home, and like me an ENCTS pass holder (and also the holder of a Senior Citizen 3-year railcard), that is a fact that I am well aware of. But new recipients still are added each passing year.

My condolences about your wife.

 

[duncanp]

Ok, I must have been dreaming then. I witnessed it multiple times while in the West Midlands. For some specifics, it happened at Perry Barr, Birmingham City Centre and also in Walsall. I've travelled far and wide and I've seen, and been on the receiving end of this behaviour many a time. Just depends on personal experience.


I agree, fraud should be combatted but there simply isn't enough people to check tickets. Numbers of inspectors these days is extremely low. I know my local Stagecoach area has 1 ticket inspector but due to rules regarding safety, they can't do anything because they have to work in teams. The majority of companies I know have 0 revenue inspectors.


The fact NXWM has them, does surprise me a little bit but it's still extremely rare. Ask most drivers when they last saw a ticket inspector, they will tell you over 5 years. Perhaps Birmingham is tacking the issue more than other areas and hence why you have seen that but I assure you, it isn't the same everywhere else.


I think this view is around a 50/50 split. Many claim to be willing to pay but when it comes down to it, wouldn't put a penny near the service because 'why should I. I have put money into the system for years' (quote from a few years ago having a discussion about routes being cut in pass heavy areas).

I don't doubt that some ENCTS passholders do behave in an anti social and entitled manner. But it is wrong to make the assertion that all passholders are like this because of the behaviour of a few.

However many ticket inspectors a bus company has, they can never be everywhere all of the time. Whether it is profitable for a company to employ inspectors depends on their operating costs, and the amount of revenue recovered versus the cost of employing the inspectors.

I have witnessed revenue blocks on my local routes into Birmingham over the past week or two, at the Edgbaston (Ivy Bush) stop on the Hagley Road going into the city centre. They have to target known trouble spots, and presumably they will then move on to a different area.

 

[Eyersey468]

It is impossible for bus services to continue though on the current scheme. It's being seen now more than ever. Pass heavy routes being cut because they can't make them viable and they lose so much money. A much better scheme needs to be introduced by reducing how free the pass is while still keeping it in place. Reducing how free the pass is, with the same budget, means more reimbursement per pass and that is what is needed more than anything.

I agree that bus services can't survive long term on the current scheme especially if they are pass heavy. We used to have a route going from Hull to York via Brough and South Cave, there were a couple of journeys on it that could be busy but it was all passes so the route wasn't viable and got withdrawn in 2018, on the last day loads of pass holders came out to use it, it was as though they were saying look we are using it, but it was too little too late

 

[Dai Corner]

Another way that I would say is the fact passholders identities are never checked. EVER. I believe there are people fraudulently using someone elses pass knowing full well that the photos aren't checked and it's known that there is no enforcement of any kind on local buses so people use others passes. No one will ever know. If a 20 year old gets on with an OAP pass, granted it will raise eyebrows but the disabled conc passes can be issued at any age.

I've used my age-related pass extensively in the time I've had it and never shown it to a driver as it lives inside a wallet with my railcard. How does that make me a freeloader as opposed to a potential undetected fraudster?

You've also got the fact that when an OAP loses their pass, they often beg for free travel. 'Oh I've left my pass at home', 'I've lost it'. Well in that case, pay up like everyone else. If I forget my weekly ticket, I don't get let on for free, why should they get on for free when they have forgotten their pass?

I've never witnessed that.

Other issues include instances such as travelling miles away by bus just because it's free versus using the train or using buses in other areas, just because they are free (like when on holiday). Tourist hotspots come to mind and often why their bus services are so poor and fares so high because of the freeloaders. If they can afford the holiday, they can afford a few quid for the bus. In my area, come about 10ish, a good number of pass holders come out of the pubs and so after spending goodness knows how much per pint, they then use their pass to get home. If you're paying the silly prices for pints, you can afford your bus fare home.

The tourist areas benefit from the money the tourists spend there. Paying for their bus travel will encourage some to leave their cars at their holiday accommodation or even at home, reducing congestion which is often a problem in such areas.

I often use the bus to travel to/from the pub. I can't afford beer and taxis every time. Isn't socialising a legitimate activity? I also have days out by bus instead of the car.

Do you think passes should only be for grocery shopping and medical appointments?

I do agree that the financial impact of the ENCTS scheme on bus services needs to be looked at. I am on record on this thread as saying that I wouldn't mind paying up to £300 per year for an ENCTS pass, provided the money can be ringfenced to support unprofitable but socially necessary bus services.

I was at a meeting a few years ago in a village in danger of losing its bus service. I suggested passholders might wish to pay for at least their outbound journeys and was quite well received. I don't know whether any actually did so.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I had to travel into the Greater Manchester area for a hospital visit to Wythenshawe hospital that has excellence in the specific role in medicine and was told by a fellow visitor who lives in Greater Manchester with one of the TfGM-issued ENCTS passes that he pays an annual surcharge of £10 that entitles him also to both Metrolink and rail travel within the boundaries of Greater Manchester.

He is like me, in his late 70s and years ago, he had been a local Labour councillor. He was proud of the fact that it was the Labour Party who introduced the ENCTS scheme and added that whilst Andy Burnham was the mayor of Greater Manchester, to use his words, "hell would freeze over" before TfGM would change the existing system of TfGM-issued ENCTS passes in any financial way.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't doubt that some ENCTS passholders do behave in an anti social and entitled manner. But it is wrong to make the assertion that all passholders are like this because of the behaviour of a few.

However many ticket inspectors a bus company has, they can never be everywhere all of the time. Whether it is profitable for a company to employ inspectors depends on their operating costs, and the amount of revenue recovered versus the cost of employing the inspectors.

I have witnessed revenue blocks on my local routes into Birmingham over the past week or two, at the Edgbaston (Ivy Bush) stop on the Hagley Road going into the city centre. They have to target known trouble spots, and presumably they will then move on to a different area.

I have to agree. I've known the odd curmudgeon elbowing their way in a queue but for the most part, elderly pass holders are better behaved. By the same dint, you could make sweeping generalisations about younger people, or those pass holders who happen to be disabled or autistic. The latter area is, of course, even more fraught (they didn't look disabled etc) and perhaps the level of abuse/freeloading is not really worth the cost of managing it assiduously. Rather like means testing.

 

[Wolfie]

Since my dear wife died last November, just seven days prior to her 80th birthday in her nursing home, and like me an ENCTS pass holder (and also the holder of a Senior Citizen 3-year railcard), that is a fact that I am well aware of. But new recipients still are added each passing year.

My condolences on your wife passing.

 

[Typhoon]

I use buses in Birmingham nearly every day, on an ENCTS disabled persons pass, and I have never seen the behaviour you describe.

I was in Birmingham for the first time since I retired ten years ago. Used buses to get to and from a meeting, the only difference between there and where I live is that round here it takes some ages to get on as they want a quick chat with someone getting off. Those in the rugby scrum were school kids as it was kicking out time, some pensioners took the wise step of standing aside and waiting for the next bus. (This was South Birmingham, maybe the pensioners are more civilised there).

And as for identities never being checked National Express West Midlands have a team of roving ticket inspectors who will target buses on main routes into the city. The bus pulls up at the stop and the inspectors get on and everyone's ticket is checked. The bus is not allowed to move off until the ticket check has been completed, and anyone with a ticket irregularity, including ENCTS pass holders, is made to get off the bus whilst the matter is dealt with.

I remember them well. They were mob handed. One would go upstairs 'Please have your tickets and passes ready." They used to be accompanied by police officers, does this still happen?

Down here I haven't seen an inspector for ages. There used to be a couple. The concern amongst drivers appears to be photoshopped tickets on mobile phones (I overheard the conversation so couldn't butt in) although most travelers will be pass holders.

I do agree that the financial impact of the ENCTS scheme on bus services needs to be looked at. I am on record on this thread as saying that I wouldn't mind paying up to £300 per year for an ENCTS pass, provided the money can be ringfenced to support unprofitable but socially necessary bus services. Those who are on low incomes could still get their pass for free if they send in supporting evidence when renewing their pass.

I certainly have no problem with making a contribution (although maybe free to those on pension credit), after all. you need to pay for a Blue Badge. It might also encourage those who obtain one to use it more frequently rather than travelling by car and clogging up the roads.
I met a couple of small groups of elderly women yesterday (North Kent), most with mobility issues, unfamiliar with the area, came from inner South London, one group in particular just wanted a 'ride round' to see sights. Didn't know whether they could use their passes (one at least had money ready, might have got her a couple of stops from what I saw). They clearly had never traveled far. If they can get enjoyment out of a half hour bus journey. who am I to deprive them?

Maybe moving the 0930 start to 1000 across the country (England) may help and extra 30 minutes worth of income may just scrape in enough to keep the route going.

The disadvantage with a 10.00 start is that the first ENCTS bus might be approaching 11.00. The passenger may then be returning during school kick out time (which appears to be increasingly early), certainly if they need to change buses to get to their destination or its a circuitous route.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have to agree. I've known the odd curmudgeon elbowing their way in a queue but for the most part, elderly pass holders are better behaved. By the same dint, you could make sweeping generalisations about younger people, or those pass holders who happen to be disabled or autistic. The latter area is, of course, even more fraught (they didn't look disabled etc) and perhaps the level of abuse/freeloading is not really worth the cost of managing it assiduously. Rather like means testing.

I must say that on the few occasions that I have recently used bus travel locally, a number of times have elapsed where young people eons younger than I have asked me to go before them. Courtesy is still alive in certain areas of Cheshire East. Normally, though, if I have to see a consultant at Salford Royal Hospital, that is many miles from home and not far from the Trafford Centre, I use the taxi service that I have used for years, as bus and tram travel within Greater Manchester would take far too much travelling time and a number of changes.

Before I moved to the current abode on the rural borders of Handforth and of Wilmslow early in 2020, from our home on the rural border area of Mottram St Andrew and Prestbury that I bought in 2004, I had not driven under instructions of my stroke consultant since that occurrence in July 2012 and Patricia still drove her Land Rover Discovery. Howsoever, she began to exhibit signs of Vascular Dementia towards the end of 2018 which grew steadily worse in its effects upon her. It was almost two miles distance from home to the nearest bus stop and from either Prestbury or Adlington (Cheshire) railway stations. We relocated to allow Patricia to be nearer the major sources of required medical care, but in March 2021, she was admitted as a permanent resident (self-funding for all costs) to a very good nursing home that cater for people with such afflictions needing 24-hour care, but sadly deterioration saw her pass away peacefully in her sleep in November 2021 there.

 

[philthetube]

Yes he travelled alone in one direction then got his mate a free ride in the other direction. Maybe a compromise would be to say a limited number of people can be nominated to be companions BUT one of these people has to be travelling with the passholder the full length of each journey for the pass to be valid. I think the York lad moved a while ago as no one has seen him for years

Well, that is the whole point of the companion pass. If the disabled passholder is capable of travelling alone, then they don't need one, and it should be restricted to say one nominated person rather than some Netflix style code shared amongst several people.

The irony is that the ENCTS market is the area with the biggest drop off in passenger figures since Mar 2020.

There are many examples of disabilities with which passengers can travel alone only on familiar routes, people with learning disabilities who can be taught a journey but could not cope with an unfamiliar one is a good example, also many blind people may not have the confidence to travel alone in unfamiliar areas.

Concerning the gent giving free rides to his mates, his pass should be withdrawn.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I must say that on the few occasions that I have recently used bus travel locally, a number of times have elapsed where young people eons younger than I have asked me to go before them. Courtesy is still alive in certain areas of Cheshire East. Normally, though, if I have to see a consultant at Salford Royal Hospital, that is many miles from home and not far from the Trafford Centre, I use the taxi service that I have used for years, as bus and tram travel within Greater Manchester would take far too much travelling time and a number of changes.

Before I moved to the current abode on the rural borders of Handforth and of Wilmslow early in 2020, from our home on the rural border area of Mottram St Andrew and Prestbury that I bought in 2004, I had not driven under instructions of my stroke consultant since that occurrence in July 2012 and Patricia still drove her Land Rover Discovery. Howsoever, she began to exhibit signs of Vascular Dementia towards the end of 2018 which grew steadily worse in its effects upon her. It was almost two miles distance from home to the nearest bus stop and from either Prestbury or Adlington (Cheshire) railway stations. We relocated to allow Patricia to be nearer the major sources of required medical care, but in March 2021, she was admitted as a permanent resident (self-funding for all costs) to a very good nursing home that cater for people with such afflictions needing 24-hour care, but sadly deterioration saw her pass away peacefully in her sleep in November 2021 there.

Absolutely - most people are generally good. Whilst I've seen the odd ignorant pensioner, like the odd ignorant younger person, most people are generally decent individuals. Certainly, my most recent trip to Birmingham wasn't typified by feral pensioners!!

Sorry to read of your wife's condition and eventual demise; it's a pernicious condition.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

When my mother lived in Poole, her local service was a "pass heavy" route. (More Bus 60 : Poole - Sandbanks Ferry). The service only runs hourly for most of the year, and is frequently late because only one bus is used on the route, and the theoretical end to end running time of 25 minutes is often exceeded because of traffic delays along Sandbanks Road. Whilst the service is commerically run, there is not enough money to run it more frequently, or use an extra bus to provide more reliability. My mother used to say that she would much rather pay £1 or even £2 per journey IF it could guarantee a more frequent and reliable service, and I know other pass holders sharethe same view.

There is nothing to stop people voluntarily paying cash now and then instead of using their ENCTS, thus helping to save a marginal route (or topping up the profits of the bus co, discuss elsewhere!). Say someone uses the bus daily - so 14 journeys in all, a passholder could pay once per week, say £2 instead of the re-imbursement rate of £1. £15 revenue to the bus co instead of £14. Multiply that by the number of pass users on a route.