Are paramedics professionals?

[Christmas]

With the recent strike action being taken by NHS staff including nurses and paramedics, I was wondering what forum members' views on the role of the paramedic actually is, how it has changed over the years and if they can really be classed as true professionals?

Nowadays the paramedic needs a degree in order to qualify, this was never necessary in the past, but then again nor was a degree necessary to become a nurse and no one would dispute their professional status.

What exactly does it mean to be a professional? Does the strike action affect any public perception of paramedics or ambulance workers being professionals?

 

[olddriver]

I am an ambulance worker (although not a paramedic) so I have a strong view on this.

I’m interested in the way you have worded ‘if they can really be classed as true professionals’. My question to you would be why would they not? Is it to do with striking? Barristers went on strike. Junior doctors talked (or are talking?) about strikes. They are both professional careers.

Every single day, I get the feeling that the public vastly underestimate what ambulance workers do. We are trained professionals (there’s that word again) who provide, often life saving, pre-hospital interventions. We give drugs, we provide CPR, we deliver babies, we pop dislocated knees/ankles/elbows back in again, we talk people down from motorway flyovers, and we do much of this on our own before back up arrives. We are not, as the public often seem to think, ‘ambulance drivers’. (We’re not in the 1970’s anymore)

I’m a Technician. Paramedics are trained to a higher level than me. They are required to be registered with the Health and Care Professions Council. They are required to participate in, and record, CPD activities for which they are audited. If they make a dodgy decision at a job, they can be hauled in front of the HCPC to explain and if the explanation isn’t good, they are removed from the register and their career is over.

Do they actually need a degree? Probably not. But then, in my view, neither do nurses. However, are they professionals? Absolutely.

 

[GusB]

One thing that made my blood boil was when the media were referring to "ambulance drivers" when reporting on the strike action. Yes, paramedics drive ambulances, as do their technician colleagues, but that's just a very small part of what they do. I'd argue that everyone involved in the Ambulance service should be considered to be a professional due to the amount of training that they have to undergo, and the job that they have to do, calmly and under pressure. I'd include the people who answer the 999 calls - the whole process of saving lives begins right there.

 

[Christmas]

Thanks. The reason for my post was that I was watching the SNP leadership debate on Channel 4 News where Humza Yousef (the health secretary) referred to striking ambulance drivers, or how he had managed to prevent a strike. This got me thinking about that outdated phrase and how many members of the public still refer to paramedics as ambulance drivers. I understand that it is disrespectful but has enough been done to change this view?

I'm not suggesting that paramedics, or indeed technicians are not professionals, but nobody would dispute that a doctor or lawyer are professionals. Why is this?

 

[Lost property]

Watching paramedics on television gives you an idea as to how professional they are, however, it's when you encounter them in a personal capacity, you truly appreciate they are the consummate professionals, starting with the call handlers and thereafter to the crews

Four times I had to call 999 for my late lady, bless her, and last year, I found myself in an ambulance c/o my GP ( I was expecting patient transport, not the real thing, so more than a bit embarrassing ) and two weeks ago had to call 999 due to my BP being dangerously high albeit they found nothing physically wrong when I was comprehensively checked / evaluated.

I think the term professional is often misunderstood when, as mentioned above, it's applied to the established professions however, it's equally applicable to a range of occupations in which high standards and indeed the occupation are expected and routinely referred to as professional.

 

[DarloRich]

Are paramedics professionals? Yes. Next question

( I would hope they were not amateurs!)

 

[Magdalia]

Every single day, I get the feeling that the public vastly underestimate what ambulance workers do. We are trained professionals (there’s that word again) who provide, often life saving, pre-hospital interventions. We give drugs, we provide CPR, we deliver babies, we pop dislocated knees/ankles/elbows back in again, we talk people down from motorway flyovers, and we do much of this on our own before back up arrives. We are not, as the public often seem to think, ‘ambulance drivers’. (We’re not in the 1970’s anymore)

I think that most people who have had to use the ambulance emergency service recognise this. Paramedics saved my life when I had a heart attack, by prompt use of the required drug, and I will always be grateful to them for what they did.

The ambulance emergency service is an essential part of the NHS, and paramedics are part of the professional medical team like doctors and nurses.

Paramedics are trained to a higher level than me. They are required to be registered with the Health and Care Professions Council. They are required to participate in, and record, CPD activities for which they are audited. If they make a dodgy decision at a job, they can be hauled in front of the HCPC to explain and if the explanation isn’t good, they are removed from the register and their career is over.

These are all characteristics of being a professional.

 

[baz962]

In my humble opinion, absolutely.
But I also believe that anyone doing any job is a professional as it's their profession and any job requires some skill.

 

[Typhoon]

I am an ambulance worker (although not a paramedic) so I have a strong view on this.

I’m interested in the way you have worded ‘if they can really be classed as true professionals’. My question to you would be why would they not? Is it to do with striking? Barristers went on strike. Junior doctors talked (or are talking?) about strikes. They are both professional careers.

Every single day, I get the feeling that the public vastly underestimate what ambulance workers do. We are trained professionals (there’s that word again) who provide, often life saving, pre-hospital interventions. We give drugs, we provide CPR, we deliver babies, we pop dislocated knees/ankles/elbows back in again, we talk people down from motorway flyovers, and we do much of this on our own before back up arrives. We are not, as the public often seem to think, ‘ambulance drivers’. (We’re not in the 1970’s anymore)

I’m a Technician. Paramedics are trained to a higher level than me. They are required to be registered with the Health and Care Professions Council. They are required to participate in, and record, CPD activities for which they are audited. If they make a dodgy decision at a job, they can be hauled in front of the HCPC to explain and if the explanation isn’t good, they are removed from the register and their career is over.

Do they actually need a degree? Probably not. But then, in my view, neither do nurses. However, are they professionals? Absolutely.

When my mother was taken ill at home, the out of hours doctor was called, who said she needed to go to hospital, and called for an ambulance. The woman who drove the ambulance (the 'Ambulance Driver') observed my mother and said there was some abnormality and called for specialist equipment before she would move her. Someone, clearly senior, arrived with the equipment and stabilised her (apparently it was unlikely she would have survived the trip without intervention). I have no idea what grade the Ambulance Driver is or was, but she spotted something the doctor didn't. In my eyes that places her well above the private 'patient transport' drivers. And she cared enough to visit A&E on her next trip in to see how mum was doing. That is professional. There is more to being professional than having a string of letters after your name!

Thank you for what you do.

 

[yorksrob]

Do any paramedics work for CI5 ?

 

[yorkie]

I'm not suggesting that paramedics, or indeed technicians are not professionals, but nobody would dispute that a doctor or lawyer are professionals. Why is this?

I understand you aren't, but who is suggesting this? Is it a widespread view or are we discussing the views of a minority?

What would you count as the definition of a professional?

The term does appear to have a very broad meaning; to quote a couple of sources:

Definition of PROFESSIONAL

of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession; engaged in one of the learned professions; characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

1a: of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession
b: engaged in one of the learned professions
c (1): characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession
(2): exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace

2a: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs
a professional golfer
b: having a particular profession as a permanent career
a professional soldier
c: engaged in by persons receiving financial return
professional footballer

3: following a line of conduct as though it were a profession
a professional patriot

professional

1. relating to work that needs special training or education: 2. having the…

dictionary.cambridge.org

professional
adjective
uk
/prəˈfeʃ.ən.əl/ us
/prəˈfeʃ.ən.əl/
B2
relating to work that needs special training or education:
Chris, you're a nurse, so can I ask your professional opinion on bandaging ankles?
Both doctors have been charged with professional misconduct (= bad or unacceptable behaviour in their work).

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Just take a look at the scope of practice that a qualified paramedic is supposed within. I think it varies across regions, but procedures such as intubation, thrombolysis, cricothyroidotomy etc. are usually included within remit of a paramedic. I think being able to a) make such decisions and b) do them, is certainly professional!

 

[Pete_uk]

With all due respect, it's a bit of a daft question.
Yes they are professional.
The 'Ambulance driver' term is just the ignorant and lazy press.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

This is, to me, an extremely interesting question - and one that needs to be answered in two parts.



Firstly - what is a profession? And secondly, do paramedics meet that definition? This will really be a sociological deep dive!



If you are truly interested I recommend reading McCann’s “The Paramedic at Work” and Wankhade’s “Critical Perspectives on the Management and Organisation of Emergency Services”.



The first question is what is a professional? These are people that are disciplined, have ethical standards and who - are accepted by the general public - of holding special skills and knowledge in a body of learning derived from high level education and training. Most importantly, these are people who have the ability to self regulate ie. empowered by legislation, can exclude people who do not reach the standards of the profession.



Secondly, do paramedics reach this level? In short, yes - but as an immature profession. Paramedics are governed by a professional council which can self regulate. At the same time, the professional body which can self regulate standards, demands at least a BSc (Hons) - since 2016ish although a lot of paramedics will be qualified to that level since 1998. Unregulated, but enforced by the professional body and NHS HEE, in order or practice at a specialist or advanced level is the need for an MSc.



You’ll note that I have avoided talking about psychomotor skills like previous posters. Theses skills can be taught to anyone. The challenge comes with deciding when is right to intervene and when it is not right to intervene.



So, is being a paramedic a profession like being a lawyer? Yes and no. Paramedics have only existed since the 1980s and as such are a very immature profession.

 

[Sebastian O]

Just take a look at the scope of practice that a qualified paramedic is supposed within. I think it varies across regions, but procedures such as intubation, thrombolysis, cricothyroidotomy etc. are usually included within remit of a paramedic. I think being able to a) make such decisions and b) do them, is certainly professional!

For what it’s worth, those three skills are either rarely used or have little evidence behind them in the pre hospital world.

Interesting comments about degrees - I have been a ambulance technician (fixer of people, not the ambulances before anyone asks) for a few years now but doing a degree has certainly changed my perspective on a lot.

I agree it is a profession but it’s unfortunately still not taken as seriously or treated with the humility it deserves by either users of the service, other healthcare professions and certainly not but those undertaking the role. Not entirely sure covid helped either - the hero stuff is a load of tosh and is a lie purported by the media.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I

For what it’s worth, those three skills are either rarely used or have little evidence behind them in the pre hospital world.

Interesting comments about degrees - I have been a ambulance technician (fixer of people, not the ambulances before anyone asks) for a few years now but doing a degree has certainly changed my perspective on a lot.

I agree it is a profession but it’s unfortunately still not taken as seriously or treated with the humility it deserves by either users of the service, other healthcare professions and certainly not but those undertaking the role. Not entirely sure covid helped either - the hero stuff is a load of tosh and is a lie purported by the media.

A very good point - skills are meaningless, knowledge is not. I wrote my MSc dissertation about intubation and you are right - it does not improve outcomes. Similarly, cricothyroidotomy - again, unless they’re an infant or you’re doing it with a scapel, it’s pointless. Thrombolysis? Well, the jury’s out but it does depend on what you’re trying to thrombolyse.

Skills are not what defines a profession.

and certainly not but those undertaking the role.

Now this is the key.

 

[357]

As station staff I must have called thousands of ambulances and with the exception of twice I've always found the staff who arrive to be smart, dedicated, knowledgeable and most importantly professional.

Both incidents were with agency staff who didn't have NHS uniform or vehicles. One of the times I ended up taking a passenger who was in labour to hospital in an Uber at my own expense, and despite my former TOCs praise at the time, they never did reimburse me for it!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately most 999 Trusts are reliant on private provision to support performance.

 

[357]

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately most 999 Trusts are reliant on private provision to support performance, and this is something that dilutes the ability of NHS ambulance trusts.

Yes, this was a summer some years back before I went driving when the shortage of ambulances and delays were national news.

The other time was the crew grumbling in front of a passenger having a stroke that they would need to drive all the way into London (Whitechapel) with him and couldn't "just dump him at a local hospital".

But considering that in the party town at weekends I could be calling 7/8 ambulances in one evening, for all the years I worked on stations those two incidents are a tiny fraction of a percentage of the crews I met. By the time I left I was on first name terms with some of the crews, and we had our fair share of "regular customers"!

 

[Gloster]

The 'Ambulance driver' term is just the ignorant and lazy press.

Although it is often just sloppy and casual journalism, sometimes it is more editorial or political policy (official or unofficial). Referring to paramedics as ‘ambulance drivers’ will subtly instill in many people the idea that it is an unskilled job, which will move on to an attitude that anyone can do it. And if anyone can do it, why should the taxpayer give these unskilled van drivers a decent wage and conditions. Sorry to be political, but it is all part of both the attack on the NHS and the general stamping on pay and conditions. Remember, if they manage to denigrate the work of skilled professionals like paramedics (and nurses, junior doctors, etc.), it will be much easier for them if they do go for those who aren’t doing really vital jobs.

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, rather like the Government/media implying that junior doctors are somehow not fully trained, leading to people thinking they're perhaps unskilled and still learning, and therefore not worthy of a decent wage (£14 per hour is unbelievable). Junior just means recently 'passed out', so while they may lack life experience, they are fully qualified.

 

[GusB]

Yeah, rather like the Government/media implying that junior doctors are somehow not fully trained, leading to people thinking they're perhaps unskilled and still learning, and therefore not worthy of a decent wage (£14 per hour is unbelievable). Junior just means recently 'passed out', so while they may lack life experience, they are fully qualified.

I was under the impression that "junior doctor" was a term that applied to anyone below consultant level, rather than someone who is just newly qualified.

 

[Ediswan]

I was under the impression that "junior doctor" was a term that applied to anyone below consultant level, rather than someone who is just newly qualified.

The various titles are explained here:
Doctors' titles explained (BMA)

All medical doctors start as medical students and typically continue training until they become a consultant, GP (general practitioner) or SAS (staff grade, associate specialist and specialty) doctor.

Junior doctors are qualified doctors in clinical training.

They have completed a medical degree and foundation training and, across their entire career, can have up to eight years' of working experience as a hospital doctor, depending on their specialty, or up to three years of working experience in general practice.

All junior doctors work under the supervisor of a senior doctor.

 

[Typhoon]

Yeah, rather like the Government/media implying that junior doctors are somehow not fully trained, leading to people thinking they're perhaps unskilled and still learning, and therefore not worthy of a decent wage (£14 per hour is unbelievable). Junior just means recently 'passed out', so while they may lack life experience, they are fully qualified.

I was under the impression that "junior doctor" was a term that applied to anyone below consultant level, rather than someone who is just newly qualified.

Adding to the above
The term junior doctor currently incorporates the grades of Foundation doctor and Specialty registrar. Prior to 2007 it included the grades of Pre-registration house officer, Senior house officer and Specialist registrar. During this time junior doctors will do postgraduate examinations to become members of a Medical royal college relevant to the specialty in which they are training, for example Membership of the Royal College of Physicians for doctors specialising in Internal medicine, Membership of the Royal College of Surgeons for doctors specialising in surgery or Membership of the Royal College of General Practitioners for doctors specialising in family medicine. Doctors typically may be junior doctors for 8–20 years, and this may be extended by doing research towards a higher degree, for example towards a Doctor of Philosophy or Doctor of Medicine degree. In England there are around 71,000 junior doctors.



Sorry - did not give source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_doctor
Apologies for going off-topic

 

[Starmill]

I think that anyone who works in a highly trained job is a professional. For some people that training will be through formal courses like a train driver, for some people, that will be through academic study and research, such as most university lecturers, and for some it will be on the job such as someone who was an apprentice gas engineer. For lots of office-based roles, there will be some combination of all of these. Nearly all clinical staff working in healthcare would be professionals, as would plenty of more experienced non-clinical staff.

 

[jon0844]

I was under the impression that "junior doctor" was a term that applied to anyone below consultant level, rather than someone who is just newly qualified.

As I said, it suits some sections of the media or Government to make people think 'junior' means something else, to try and get people outraged that they're asking for what seems like a huge pay rise, despite being 'junior'.

No different to trying to turn the public against rail workers by saying they're all on £60k or more.

Thankfully, it doesn't seem to be fooling anyone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With the recent strike action being taken by NHS staff including nurses and paramedics, I was wondering what forum members' views on the role of the paramedic actually is, how it has changed over the years and if they can really be classed as true professionals?

Nowadays the paramedic needs a degree in order to qualify, this was never necessary in the past, but then again nor was a degree necessary to become a nurse and no one would dispute their professional status.

What exactly does it mean to be a professional? Does the strike action affect any public perception of paramedics or ambulance workers being professionals?

Traditionally the term professional meant two things - an appropriate degree for the role, and membership of the relevant professional body. Though it's become a bit wider than that, as I'd probably call myself an IT professional but am not a member of the British Computer Society, the recognised professional body, as I've never thought it worth it, and because my degree is a "with" that contained only 2/3 of a Computer Science degree it wasn't accredited so I would have had to go through exams etc to join.

Thus I'd say a paramedic is, yes.

 

[johntea]

I have a even huger respect for paramedics and thank yous after the week (and last few months) I've had so far!

Around Easter time my mum was round at my sisters when she had a fall down the stairs (perhaps ironically at the time she was round there helping out because my sister had recently had a planned foot operation herself!)

Luckily she didn't fully pass out and my sister and her partner managed to get the ambulance out to get her to hospital, after a few weeks they planned to transfer her to a closer hospital to home (being that my sister lives 80 miles away) but they decided she could come home instead wearing a contraption round her head and neck that looks like it was directly nicked from one of the 'Saw' movies for about 3 months!

She can't do a great deal but that was fine as my Dad and I were able to help out

...but in a 'you couldn't make it up if you tried' twist of fate this Monday my Dad was simply doing his shopping in town when he fell going back to his car and completely broke his shoulder, luckily the staff in the nearby shop noticed and got an ambulance to get him checked out at hospital whilst another extremely kind stranger drove the car back to the house

The hospital decided to bring my Dad back home the same evening and he was OK but you could tell he was in a state of shock...come Tuesday morning when the adrenaline and painkillers wore off and he couldn't move from his bed whatsoever, we ended up having to call an ambulance to get him out in the end which took 7 hours to arrive which seemed a little excessive but they obviously had a lot of potential life or death incidents that day to deal with first, you wouldn't have thought it though as the ambulance staff were so friendly, professional and helped calm my Dad down as by that point he was in a quite anxious state

The hospital have decided to take him back tomorrow and potentially operate as they've done some further studies on the X Rays, which sort of makes you wonder why 'the system' didn't just decide to keep in hospital to begin with!

Out of absolutely nowhere I'm suddenly essentially caring full time for both my parents, amazing how life can change in an instant like that