Are some people not cut out to drive?

[thejuggler]

My dad was a driving instructor for 25 years. Whilst some pupils stopped having lessons for all sorts of reasons, he only had two where he suggested they should have automatic lessons as they couldn't coordinate manual changes.

I was his 'guinea pig' pupil as it was about 2 years after he taught me he decided to take it up as a job. I passed within 6 months of my 17th birthday, but I'd been driving on private land from the age of about 11 so had the basic car control.

 

[johncrossley]

After some stressful experiences driving an LHD manual car in heavy traffic in Italy a few years ago*, I said that in future I'd always go auto if hiring a left-hooker again. Now I'd probably extend the same philosophy here as well.

You normally have to pay a lot more to hire an automatic as automatics tend to be the bigger cars.

 

[Vespa]

I passed my driving test on my third attempt, it can take time, since then I liked driving I've driven car, motorbike, 7.5t truck, tram, train, trolleybus....
Not yet driven a vintage diesel bus or a modern bus to date.

For some it takes time, the test only gives you the basics the rest is gained through experience.

A residential driving course can make difference for some.

 

[Snow1964]

Although I have had auto gearbox for over 20 years, having learnt on a manual, not something you forget.

Even managed with a left hand drive manual as a hire car in Madeira about 3 years ago. (If you have never been there you need to be good at hill starts, as virtually every road is a hill, including hairpin bends to get up the mountains), must be hard place to learn to drive.

 

[jfollows]

Although I have had auto gearbox for over 20 years, having learnt on a manual, not something you forget.

Even managed with a left hand drive manual as a hire car in Madeira about 3 years ago. (If you have never been there you need to be good at hill starts, as virtually every road is a hill, including hairpin bends to get up the mountains), must be hard place to learn to drive.

Your post reminded me - I bought three left-hand drive manual cars when I lived and worked in the USA. I learned to keep my distance from Japanese cars when stopped behind them on a rising gradient - they tended to be manual transmission and a lot of drivers in the parts of the USA I lived in (Colorado and then North Carolina) couldn't do hill starts so always rolled back first.
The second car I bought new and had to take back to Ford to get it adjusted because the handbrake ("emergency brake") wasn't good enough to hold the car on a hill when required - the dealer was amused because it didn't generally occur to customers that it should. Anyway, after the tweak it worked properly and I even imported the car back to the UK in due course.
Oh, but having the controls reversed didn't take much learning, I found.

EDIT Back to the point of this thread, in a way, I think that some people struggle with the clutch/throttle combination with manual transmission, but once you've cracked it it's relatively easy to transfer to a left-hand drive with the same controls, just in different places.

 

[mmh]

One thing I never like seeing are the "funny" news articles when someone passes on the 20th attempt. I would be far too embarrassed to admit that, let alone want my mug in a newspaper with it.

In fact, I think I would have given it up as a lost cause a long time earlier, and I think those people should have. Frankly, they cannot be competent drivers despite their eventual pass.

 

[Snow1964]

Your post reminded me - I bought three left-hand drive manual cars when I lived and worked in the USA. I learned to keep my distance from Japanese cars when stopped behind them on a rising gradient - they tended to be manual transmission and a lot of drivers in the parts of the USA I lived in (Colorado and then North Carolina) couldn't do hill starts so always rolled back first.
The second car I bought new and had to take back to Ford to get it adjusted because the handbrake ("emergency brake") wasn't good enough to hold the car on a hill when required - the dealer was amused because it didn't generally occur to customers that it should. Anyway, after the tweak it worked properly and I even imported the car back to the UK in due course.
Oh, but having the controls reversed didn't take much learning, I found.

EDIT Back to the point of this thread, in a way, I think that some people struggle with the clutch/throttle combination with manual transmission, but once you've cracked it it's relatively easy to transfer to a left-hand drive with the same controls, just in different places.

It’s just the gearstick on opposite side.

The pedals are still in same order, accelerator on right, brake in middle, clutch on left on both right hand drive and left hand drive cars

 

[keppoch69]

I am old enough to be the original poster's father,being in my early 50s.
I only ever had 2 driving instructors years ago. The first one, was only a few years older than myself, I was late teens, & he was too c*cky for my liking. The second was an acquaintance of the family, & I worked with his wife. Davie I got on well with. I can still remember him saying that when you change driving instructor, treat it as if you have never driven a car before & forget what the previous one taught me. This being the late 1980s, & I could only afford lessons from my own salary, I would stop lessons on the lead up to Christmas & in spring time when I was saving my spending money for the summer holiday I was going on in the near future.
I knew how to drive, I was driving into the centre of Glasgow under my instructor with no problem. I never remember stalling on the hills. My instructor told me & my parents that I knew how to drive, my confidence held me back. I grew bored, & never sat the test.
The original poster mentioned riding a manual bicycle. I never could do that. I think I was about 8 years old when my father tried to take off the stabilisers and I couldn't do it. Too timid. The family tried again at the end of my school days, & I was too timid to let go.
I did have a bullying father for decades who never instilled confidence in me, he was a taker.
I have not looked in recent years if the 1 weeks, intensive driving courses are still available anywhere on the island of Britain?? There was at least one residential course in Scotland. No idea if it still exists or something similar?
Age never used to be a barrier to passing the driving test. Some people came back to it in their 50s/60s, though that was the old style, before this split test nonsense.
To the original poster, try not to do your own head in. Give Time, Time. Try other things & it may come back in future as something to try later?

 

[DelW]

You normally have to pay a lot more to hire an automatic as automatics tend to be the bigger cars.

True, but I think it would be worth it to avoid a repeat of my Italian experience. I'd driven small LHD manual hatchbacks in Italy and Spain twenty years or more ago, but since then all my LHD driving had been in the States where automatics are the default.
It was fine in the countryside or small towns, but at busy main-road junctions and roundabouts, trying to read signs, work out where I had to go, keep watch on other traffic including kamikaze scooterists, and remember to change gear right-handed, was a bit too much. An auto gearbox reduces load on the brain at critical moments.

 

[SargeNpton]

ABC [accelerator, brake, clutch] - and I've never had a lesson, but that doesn't tell me which foot! I'll guess left so that you can't both accelerate and brake at the same time?

The pedal layout, from left to right, is CBA. So it's right foot for Brake and Accelerator.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The pedal layout, from left to right, is CBA. So it's right foot for Brake and Accelerator.

So partially correct, the same foot for Brake and Accelerator, I just guessed the wrong one. Which proves a point I make to myself when out and about: It's OK, you can leave the keys in the ignition and engine running mate, I wouldn't know how to steal your car/van even if I wanted to!

I do think some people are unsuited to driving. Just as some people are unsuited to being, say, an accountant or a labourer. You might take the courses and pass the exams, but your day to day performance is mediocre. Another way of looking at it, lots of people 'do' their garden but with vastly different results.

Personally I think I would be more comfortable driving in a rural area with less traffic, fewer decisions to quickly make.

Some drivers admit they can't reverse [despite it being required to pass the test] so park at the far end of the car park or look for a 'drive-through' space. Others clearly find it difficult to indicate, or stop at red lights, or obey the other basic rules of the road. Those people, I suggest, are not cut out to drive.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some drivers admit they can't reverse [despite it being required to pass the test] so park at the far end of the car park or look for a 'drive-through' space. Others clearly find it difficult to indicate, or stop at red lights, or obey the other basic rules of the road. Those people, I suggest, are not cut out to drive.

Reversing is extremely badly taught in the UK. The easiest way to do all the reversing manoeuvres that are required is to drop your left mirror down so you can see the rear wheel. Once you can, they are all dead easy. It is much, much harder to do it with your head fully turned, though you do of course need to look back periodically in your rear-view mirror and driver side mirror to ensure you're not about to reverse into someone who has walked behind your car.

I can't help but have the feeling that the way this is taught (which I've never been any good at) just dates back to when you'd have to get out of the car to drop the left wing mirror, or even when some cars didn't even have one.

As for forward in, forward out I do this but only because I'm lazy!

 

[Ediswan]

As for forward in, forward out I do this but only because I'm lazy!

It is also safer.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Reversing is extremely badly taught in the UK. The easiest way to do all the reversing manoeuvres that are required is to drop your left mirror down so you can see the rear wheel. Once you can, they are all dead easy. It is much, much harder to do it with your head fully turned, though you do of course need to look back periodically in your rear-view mirror and driver side mirror to ensure you're not about to reverse into someone who has walked behind your car.

I can't help but have the feeling that the way this is taught (which I've never been any good at) just dates back to when you'd have to get out of the car to drop the left wing mirror, or even when some cars didn't even have one.

As for forward in, forward out I do this but only because I'm lazy!

Remembering Meat Loaf:
Mirror, signal, manoeuvre. Two out of three ain't bad.

Or
I'll do anything for love but I won't reverse park.

It is also safer.

I know, I got reversed into by a car at Tesco, no reversing lights, just lurched out. Now I walk closer to the middle of the aisle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Remembering Meat Loaf:
Mirror, signal, manoeuvre. Two out of three ain't bad

Should really be MSMM, i.e. another mirror check before and during manoeuvring because something might change.

 

[Runningaround]

There are people who wanted to drive in Motorsport and found they were not up to it.

Chris Evans who on Top Gear whenever he was driven around a race track in a saloon car was car sick.

Noel Edmonds who had a financial interest in a car in the Le Mans 24 hour race and was told he was nowhere near good enough to get anywhere near the race.

Somebody I knew who officiated in Motorsport told me that the late Mike Smith who worked with Noel Edmonds was actually quite good at it.

I believe Nigel Mansell hadn't passed his driving test well after he was driving F1 Cars. I wonder what it was like for his instructor teaching him how to drive?

The op could try a safe way of checking if they have problems judging where the wheels are, have you tried go-karting or the Dodgems? Almost anyone can have a go on them.

 

[PeterC]

Reversing is extremely badly taught in the UK. The easiest way to do all the reversing manoeuvres that are required is to drop your left mirror down so you can see the rear wheel. Once you can, they are all dead easy. It is much, much harder to do it with your head fully turned, though you do of course need to look back periodically in your rear-view mirror and driver side mirror to ensure you're not about to reverse into someone who has walked behind your car.

I can't help but have the feeling that the way this is taught (which I've never been any good at) just dates back to when you'd have to get out of the car to drop the left wing mirror, or even when some cars didn't even have one.

As for forward in, forward out I do this but only because I'm lazy!

Once I bought a car with powered wing mirrors I found parallel parking much easier. A reversing camera is even better.

I do forward in forward out when I can as this is safer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Once I bought a car with powered wing mirrors I found parallel parking much easier.

I still did "drop the left mirror" even before electric mirrors were near enough universal, I'd just reach over and do it or ask the passenger to do it if there was one. Only cars I've owned without mirrors movable from inside the car were a couple of Land Rovers and those have "full height" lorry style mirrors on which you can see the wheel anyway.

A reversing camera is even better.

Not tried one of those yet but in principle I'd agree, should be really easy with one of those.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Had no need to drive until my early 30's. Started with a very well known national driving school who treated me like a complete idiot; hence after 2 lessons, I changed to an independent driving school

Had about 25-30 lessons I think and when I got my very first car (a 1980s Astra); I was off down that motorway like a bird that had just been released from captivity.... My wife previously failed her driving test but started lessons again with the same independent instructor that I used and she passed ....

Amazingly, I could never ride a bicycle, but have driven cars and trains....

 

[Cloud Strife]

I believe Nigel Mansell hadn't passed his driving test well after he was driving F1 Cars. I wonder what it was like for his instructor teaching him how to drive?

A friend is in a very strange situation. She is a rally driver, but she doesn't have a driving licence, only a racing licence. When she competes in rallies, she has to have special dispensation from the organisers to allow her co-driver to drive between stages.

 

[Runningaround]

A friend is in a very strange situation. She is a rally driver, but she doesn't have a driving licence, only a racing licence. When she competes in rallies, she has to have special dispensation from the organisers to allow her co-driver to drive between stages.

I'm sure you can drive rally cars off public roads or closed stages on them under 17. Cracking way to give kids something to do instead of joyriding. Building a car and hammering the nuts off it. Probably why you don't get many joyriding young farmers as they get their urge to drive in work.

 

[swt_passenger]

Back in 1972/3 I did a heck of a lot of trips in my dad’s car up and down the A1 in Northumberland on my provisional licence, not really lessons as such, just repeating the same old 30 miles in varying traffic conditions, but with few junctions, and no roundabouts or traffic lights to worry about.

My dad‘s theory was that a longish distance, with just the regular gear changing, (you needed to be a lot more proactive for hills and stuff back then), would make left foot clutch control and gear changes second nature. I think it worked, because after a few months I didn’t really think about gear changes when having professional lessons in Newcastle.

 

[Gloster]

Starting in her teens, my partner had four or five goes at learning to drive, but despite working with various scientific machinery, she could never coordinate her feet with everything else. In her early thirties she felt that she ought to have another go as not having a licence didn’t help now she was starting to apply for jobs managing projects. The same difficulty raised its ugly head (or feet) and she was just about to give up again when it all fell into place. She was never a very good driver and had to concentrate hard, but she got by.

Somebody I knew at school learned to drive on private land using hay bales and the like to practice manoeuvring. He passed his test first time, but was an appalling driver as he had no awareness of other vehicles.

 

[LTJ87]

I learned to drive when I was a teenager, primarily due to encouragement from my father so I could pick him up from the pub in the evenings. I briefly owned a car, which proved to be an expensive mistake.

I've just never liked driving, have no interest in cars, nor places that are built around the car - most of which are pretty soulless.

I have always been fortunate to be able to work in city centres and would much rather work somewhere with places go lunchtime / after work than an out of town business park. Also, one I thing I learned during lockdown and WFH is the importance of having exercise built in your daily routine, rather than having to do it just for the sake of it.

I appreciate for many owning a car is a necessity but I find car culture pretty destructive.

20 years or so ago, I used to get quite a lot of stick from colleagues, some of whom were frankly baffled I had no interest in cars. But that said more about them not me.

 

[satisnek]

I got my provisional licence at 17 but never had any formal lessons because my father thought that he could teach me himself. But I never became proficient with a manual transmission and left it there - automatics were looked down upon back then as something for the partially disabled and not considered 'proper' motoring. Attitudes have changed since then, of course, and today there's no reason why I couldn't learn to drive an automatic, but I feel that there are just too many hoops to jump through and too many impositions once you've jumped through them. I've got a bike (+ optional trailer), boat and disposable income to buy train tickets, which is enough for me.

 

[blackfive460]

Interesting thread.
Like most I started having driving lessons when I left school; between school and starting college, but really didn't enjoy it at all and was not helped by not having any extra practise as no one in my family drove. When college started I used it as an excuse to stop and didn't start again until I realised in my mid-40s that, if I didn't learn soon I probably never would.
As far as the aspect of co-ordinating feet and hands in a manual car I did much better than I had as a teenager but what I found was that I was missing seeing things; red lights, pedestrians, that sort of thing, and realised that if I continued there was a strong possibility that someone would die, maybe me so I abandoned the idea and never even considered trying again.
The positive aspect of not driving has been never owning a car which must have saved thousands of pounds in the last 50 years or so.
However I do enjoy truck driving, simulated on a PC of course!

 

[JamesT]

I believe Nigel Mansell hadn't passed his driving test well after he was driving F1 Cars. I wonder what it was like for his instructor teaching him how to drive?

That sounds like a bit of an urban myth. Certainly couldn't happen today as an FIA Super Licence for racing requires the person to hold a current normal driving licence.

 

[172007]

You normally have to pay a lot more to hire an automatic as automatics tend to be the bigger cars.

That will change. Very soon you will struggle to find a manual I instructor as all new cars are hybrid or full EV and have no gear changes.

 

[AlterEgo]

That sounds like a bit of an urban myth. Certainly couldn't happen today as an FIA Super Licence for racing requires the person to hold a current normal driving licence.

Mansell once lost his UK driving licence in the late 90s for speeding, but I'm not aware he ever started F1 racing without having held one!

 

[johncrossley]

That will change. Very soon you will struggle to find a manual I instructor as all new cars are hybrid or full EV and have no gear changes.

Things will have to change rapidly for that to be the case 'very soon'. As an experiment I went to the Hertz website and checked what cars they have on 4 July at Heathrow for one day.

Kia Picanto (or similar) - manual £238 (unlimited miles)
Vauxhall Corsa (or similar) - manual £250 (unlimited miles)
Vauxhall Astra (or similar) - manual £254 (unlimited miles)
Volvo XC90 (guaranteed model) - auto £324 (unlimited miles)
Tesla Model 3 (guaranteed model) - auto £350 (24p per mile extra after 150 miles)
Tesla Model Y LR (guaranteed model) - auto £420 (24p per mile extra after 150 miles)