Are we sacrificing the young generation without reasonable justification?

[thejuggler]

OP. The Government you elected sent us on a path of herd immunity, it backfired spectacularly and they have tried to play catch up ever since. As a result it will cost far more than the 'fast and hard approach'' adopted by many other Countries,

Think postive. We only have to wait 4.5 years for the next election.

 

[ainsworth74]

Older decision-making generations have been screwing over following generations for a long time now, it's nothing new.

Must admit I found myself thinking in response to the thread title: "Well yeah, that's what we're here for isn't it?"

(Though now three months into my thirties do I still qualify? )

Of course I suppose on the other hand it might help if young people voted in General Elections more consistently. A quick Google suggests at the 2019 General Election only 47% of 18 - 24 year olds, 55% of 25 - 34 year olds and 54% of 35 - 44 year olds voted whilst 74% of 65 or older voted (turnout generally was 61%). If 74% of people aged 18 to 44 actually voted we might start to see more attention being paid to us...

 

[Richard Scott]

Not helping people getting political - this is about youngsters getting an education. It seems all political parties and devolved nations are supporting this lockdown and not one of them considering what this post is about so tit for tat political comments not really helpful.

 

[yorkie]

OP. The Government you elected sent us on a path of herd immunity...

Unless you are saying the virus can be eliminated (WHO have claimed otherwise), the only way out, ultimately, is herd immunity.

It seems like we are going to get lucky with a vaccine, but if that wasn't going to be available then eventually we would have had no real choice but to allow the virus to spread, in my opinion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can anyone here seriously imagine being kept inside for that length of time at that age?

Well, every such kid in Spain was, which I retain the view was institutional child abuse.

 

[nedchester]

As a society, we have deiced we are not interested in any kind of health issue, unless it's the virus.

Cancer? Go home and die.
Mental health? Pull yourself together and deal with it.
Heart attack? Bad luck
Stroke? Read this guide but you're on your own
Need a lump checking out? Hahaha you must be joking
Consultation with your GP? Don't be so ridiculous, don't you realise people are dying, you're so selfish!

It is an appalling state of affairs and my great fear is, I can't see an end to it. If anything it's getting worse!

Nail on head there. Covid is the only health condition in town.

 

[Yew]

Yes, the economic consequences are severe, as are the restrictions on freedoms. yet 50% of the casualties are in care homes. My normal life takes me nowhere near one.

 

[hexagon789]

Classic misdirection

Misdirection of what? I've no idea what you getting at I'm afraid?

 

[Yew]

Misdirection of what? I've no idea what you getting at I'm afraid?

Saying that C < B, has no bearing on if B < A

 

[O8yityityit]

Tough, it is what it is, suck it up like the rest of us have to.

I consider it a small price to pay when human lives are at risk.

Thank you. The first sensible post so far.

 

[Richard Scott]

Thank you. The first sensible post so far.

Really - so people not having cancer treatment and those who've committed suicide due to being stuck in and not able to see anyone don't count?
I take it you were denied some of your education and kept from seeing friends when you were their age? Just told to suck it up?

 

[carlberry]

The problem is that China offered a way of dealing with the issue (lock down) and what happened in Italy (overwhelmed health system) reinforced the solution. The UK tried to avoid the lock down approach then went for it anyway. Coming out of that was always going to be difficult however as we do get out of it the real message that has to get out is that, this time, the sacrifice has been made by the young to protect the old (I realise this is a generalisation) and this isn't going to sit well with a governing party that usually looks after the old more than the young. Because of the lock down, and the messages from government to support it (even if the people involved didn't actually bother following them!), we're still expecting further lock downs and some 2 metre distanced new normal whilst ignoring the years of real austerity that this is going to cause. Meanwhile, whilst everybody looks the other way, the government move on with preparing to allow chlorinated chicken and hormone treated beef in from America to further decimate our own economy.

 

[al78]

Is it? I'm sick and tired of people of my generation thinking they are hard done by. We haven't lived during two world wars, rationing, people being bombed out of their homes, losing family on the front line, a cold war or mass genocide. I think people should count their blessings and appreciate how lucky they are.

I'm sick of hearing this stupid logical fallacy, which seems to be a favourite on forums across the internet. It is little more than advocating a race to the bottom.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as

Being better than the worst off does not equate to being good enough.

 

[al78]

That's exceptionally unfair. Most people aren't saying that and, let's be honest, who living today has been through two world wars. Very few can remember one. Tell the teenager who's got cancer and having no treatment that they're lucky to be stuck at home to possibly save a few lives. I've worked with a teenager with cancer and it wasn't pleasant. Luckily he lived, had it been now would he have been so lucky?

Exceptionally unfair? It is worse than that, it is a disgusting attitude, and one we can do without in a civililsed society.

 

[johnnychips]

Nobody alive has been through two world wars. I thought the late, great Harry Patch was the last person to do that.
To remember the last world war, you would have to be about 75 to have any memory of it.

It was so great to see the students back in our college this week: they were laughing and smiling, ribbing each other and vaguely managing to social distance. This is even though they’d all been contacting each other for twelve weeks through FaceTime. There is nothing like real human contact.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes and I touched upon this in a thread I made earlier regarding the vast debt that has been racked up which almost certainly won't be picked up in the near term so we'll add that onto the young as well. Along with Brexit impacts, low savings after recession, wage/house price ratios at highest levels, young people in the most at risk job sectors, increased number of graduates and the items the OP has discussed it is not the best time to be young.

Without getting too political though, the OP has stated this is the "governement [they] elected", and there were lots of warning signs this government couldn't adequately manage a crisis.

 

[O8yityityit]

Really - so people not having cancer treatment and those who've committed suicide due to being stuck in and not able to see anyone don't count?
I take it you were denied some of your education and kept from seeing friends when you were their age? Just told to suck it up?

I was as it happens , 6 months just before my O levels so yes .
There's a bit of a difference between someone remaining in their home but staying healthy and someone having cancer.
Staying in your home, despite what some might think, won't kill you.

 

[Ianno87]

Staying in your home, despite what some might think, won't kill you.

Yes, it very much can.

 

[Scrotnig]

I was as it happens , 6 months just before my O levels so yes .
There's a bit of a difference between someone remaining in their home but staying healthy and someone having cancer.
Staying in your home, despite what some might think, won't kill you.

And how long must everyone stay in their home for?

Bearing in mind a full vaccine is going to be years away, and that's if we get one at all, which is not certain or even likely.

Are you advocating permanent shutdown of the economy and nobody ever allowed outside, permanently?

If not, please explain what your plan is.

 

[ABB125]

I think the answer is yes. I was going to be doing a-levels this year (and rather scarily, if they were still happening I would only have chemistry paper 3 left now!) but obviously that's not happening. I don't think it's had too much of an effect on me personally (as explained below), but for younger children it must be terrible and detrimental to their health.
Since the school closures, apart from occasionally friends who work at a local supermarket, the only non-family member I've had a proper conversation with is a rail enthusiast friend who happened to be out photographing the same train as me; we had a chat for 10-15 minutes. Generally, going to school was the only time I would meet friends (apart from the occasional rail day trip with a different set!), and I do miss that, but ultimately I can cope with it; others won't be able to.

 

[Smidster]

Staying in your home, despite what some might think, won't kill you.

Unfortunately it can and does - and in multiple ways.

Firstly right now there are lots of people who should be seeking medical help who aren't doing so - Either because they don't want to be a "burden" on the NHS which they don't want to overwhelm (despite it actually being relatively quiet) , services might have stopped or they are simply scared that they might get Covid (even if the thing they are scared of might carry far less risk to them then what they might actually have) . In most cases this type of excess death is something that will take many months or years to be realised but is no less tragic for those involved than one due to Covid and indeed you may well find that (and this is going to sound horrible) that they lose more healthy life compared to a typical Covid patient based on age alone.

Then we have the excess death that will be caused by recession and economic strife - Recessions are terrible for Public Health. Again this is something that won't be seen immediately and won't be as visible as a scary virus that has people walking round in masks but will be around for years to come depending on the how the recovery looks.

Of course a lot depends on what happens next - how quickly do you recover and what level do you recover to? (This is where No-Deal Brexit becomes important as we are likely to rebound to a persistently lower level), how do you pay for it - Do you try for more Austerity or accept that this is something we will pay back slowly for decades?

 

[squizzler]

Whilst young people took to the streets last year to protest against the harm a climate emergency would have on their future, this whole business about the impact on children's future is more the preoccupation of Telegraph reading 'empty-nesters' from the home counties.

 

[scotrail158713]

OP. The Government you elected sent us on a path of herd immunity, it backfired spectacularly and they have tried to play catch up ever since. As a result it will cost far more than the 'fast and hard approach'' adopted by many other Countries,

Think postive. We only have to wait 4.5 years for the next election.

If you take a look at the breakdown of votes there’s a good chance the OP might not have voted for the government we’ve got. I can’t remember the specific numbers but did the stories not end up with <50% of votes but 80% of seats?

 

[Richard Scott]

Whilst young people took to the streets last year to protest against the harm a climate emergency would have on their future, this whole business about the impact on children's future is more the preoccupation of Telegraph reading 'empty-nesters' from the home counties.

Let's be honest most young people are the same as everyone else and not inclined to protest. As in all walks of life there are some that will and some who just want to join in. Those who want to go back to school are probably just quietly musing it over at home doing what they've been told which is to mostly stay indoors.

 

[leightonbd]

I’d like to offer a little supportive (hopefully) perspective on the OP.

Your generation is not being sacrificed. Yes, it is bearing pain. But so is everyone else: a 20% fall in GDP will have a financial impact on almost everyone; others have highlighted medical conditions across the spectrum being neglected; as redundancies grow, people will be prematurely spat out of careers in which they have invested many years. The oldies will suffer from a tax grab on pension pots, or similar. They aren’t immune.

Two points for the younger posters:
- you have time to recalibrate. You will go to university and graduate. Refocus. What jobs will be out their when you come out of higher ed?
- I’m afraid that education doesn’t only happen at university. The majority of graduates have to start their useful education when they move into the workplace - not applicable to doctors/ vets/ lawyers, obviously, but not all chemistry students become chemists.

Life’s a marathon, not a sprint.

These remarks are meant to be supportive, not provocative- please take them in that spirit. I’m the parent of a 21 yo about to graduate and a 17 yo who will go to university this Autumn ...

 

[LAX54]

I would argue that this is on a scale much greater than we've seen before and the damage we are doing will go down in history books as 'awful', a complete 'overreaction', and I fear 'unnecessary'

said it before, if there were no Social Media and No 24/7 news, we would not be in this hysrerical situation !

 

[Richard Scott]

I’d like to offer a little supportive (hopefully) perspective on the OP.

Your generation is not being sacrificed. Yes, it is bearing pain. But so is everyone else: a 20% fall in GDP will have a financial impact on almost everyone; others have highlighted medical conditions across the spectrum being neglected; as redundancies grow, people will be prematurely spat out of careers in which they have invested many years. The oldies will suffer from a tax grab on pension pots, or similar. They aren’t immune.

Two points for the younger posters:
- you have time to recalibrate. You will go to university and graduate. Refocus. What jobs will be out their when you come out of higher ed?
- I’m afraid that education doesn’t only happen at university. The majority of graduates have to start their useful education when they move into the workplace - not applicable to doctors/ vets/ lawyers, obviously, but not all chemistry students become chemists.

Life’s a marathon, not a sprint.

These remarks are meant to be supportive, not provocative- please take them in that spirit. I’m the parent of a 21 yo about to graduate and a 17 yo who will go to university this Autumn ...

It is good that people are offering support and I can sympathise with earlier comments about people losing jobs that they've been in for years. My Brother-in-law works in the Theatre industry and many people have been made redundant who've worked in the industry for years and have little real chance of transferring into another sector and that's assuming other sectors have any job vacancies. However this is about youngsters and think the real issue is they can't get the time back. They can't just spend another 3-6 months in school or go back a year as there will always be another year group coming through. I think the other issue is some who were due to take exams are lacking a sense of achievement, a 16 year old lad said to me just before lockdown 'what's the point, I'm not going to get the chance to prove myself' and that's quite a real issue. I know they'll get grades and maybe some will benefit but for many they'll never feel they've achieved it even if they do go on to do A-levels, university degrees, apprenticeships or whatever they choose to do.
I think we do need more people offering support to youngsters rather than telling them just to get on with it - remember they are a product of the adults around them so if you want them to grow up to be decent adults, offer them support and encouragement as you'll get more back from them if you do.

 

[yorkie]

I was as it happens , 6 months just before my O levels so yes .
There's a bit of a difference between someone remaining in their home but staying healthy and someone having cancer.
Staying in your home, despite what some might think, won't kill you.

You are not seeing the bigger picture.

I’d like to offer a little supportive (hopefully) perspective on the OP.

Your generation is not being sacrificed. Yes, it is bearing pain. But so is everyone else: a 20% fall in GDP will have a financial impact on almost everyone ...

But disproportionately on the younger generation. Do you have any idea of the mental health impact this is happening, on some young people in particular? This virus poses no real threat to young people (who are more likely to due of 'flu) and yet the majority of the burden has been transferred onto them. Do you condone the fact that some kids will not be at school for half a year? Do you condone parents who keep 11 year olds confined to their homes for months on end? If not, I'd like to see an acceptance that it does disproportionately affect the younger generation.

 

[leightonbd]

I wasn’t wishing to address the matter of disproportionate impact. I am not in a position to dispute your view on that.

I wanted to address the OP and in particular the term ‘sacrifice’. I wanted to make some points to suggest that younger people, in some ways, have a better chance to bounce back - I am trying to offer encouragement and a different perspective, whilst acknowledging it is hard, as many posts above make clear.

If we are to use emotive language like ‘sacrifice’ - then there will be mental and physical ‘casualties’ across the spectrum. Consider that poor 94yo woman in Glasgow who had to be rescued from her flat. Consider the middle aged breadwinner for a family who loses, or fears losing, their job. I agree with that you that many children will be suffering from not having access to education (and fear that this may affect the less well off in particular).

A whole generation has not been sacrificed.

I appreciate the strength of your views on this. I don’t necessarily disagree with them but if you want to lash out at someone, do it at the person upthread who advised the young to ‘suck it up’.

 

[Bikeman78]

That's exceptionally unfair. Most people aren't saying that and, let's be honest, who living today has been through two world wars. Very few can remember one. Tell the teenager who's got cancer and having no treatment that they're lucky to be stuck at home to possibly save a few lives. I've worked with a teenager with cancer and it wasn't pleasant. Luckily he lived, had it been now would he have been so lucky?

You'd have to be 110 to remember much of the First World War and late eighties for the second.