Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[capitalconnect]

Falcon Coaches in talks with Arriva to take on Guildford depot

Falcon Coaches in talks to take on Arriva Guildford business - routeone

Falcon Coaches and Arriva are in 'advanced stage' talks about the Byfleet operator purchasing the group's business in Guildford.

www.route-one.net

Wow that is a huge surprise. I am shocked that such a small independent operator would be interested in such a large operation. That would be such a massive job for Falcon Buses to take over. It shall be interesting to see if this actually happens.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wow that is a huge surprise. I am shocked that such a small independent operator would be interested in such a large operation. That would be such a massive job for Falcon Buses to take over. It shall be interesting to see if this actually happens.

It's a much reduced operation in any case and the Telling family have made enough money from selling out to Arriva in the past! Whether they take it all will be interesting to see

 

[A0]

Falcon Coaches in talks with Arriva to take on Guildford depot

Falcon Coaches in talks to take on Arriva Guildford business - routeone

Falcon Coaches and Arriva are in 'advanced stage' talks about the Byfleet operator purchasing the group's business in Guildford.

www.route-one.net

I'll bet it doesn't include the depot...... It'll be routes, staff and vehicles at the most.

 

[MotCO]

Falcon Coaches in talks with Arriva to take on Guildford depot

Falcon Coaches in talks to take on Arriva Guildford business - routeone

Falcon Coaches and Arriva are in 'advanced stage' talks about the Byfleet operator purchasing the group's business in Guildford.

www.route-one.net

Taking over the depot, or all the staff and routes? I thought the depot was earmarked for a residential development. Taking on the routes might be possible, but not sure how you would stop interlopers looking for a slice of the action.

Taking on the staff is interesting - TUPE wuld surely apply, and Falcon could be hampered with restrictive contracts of employment. However, in the current climate, wage rates could increase to help stem the leakage of drivers to the HGV market, and this could also be used to buy out any restrictive practices. It would also add staff to their books in a time when recruitment is difficult.

Interesting move.

 

[Hophead]

Taking over the depot, or all the staff and routes? I thought the depot was earmarked for a residential development. Taking on the routes might be possible, but not sure how you would stop interlopers looking for a slice of the action.

Taking on the staff is interesting - TUPE wuld surely apply, and Falcon could be hampered with restrictive contracts of employment. However, in the current climate, wage rates could increase to help stem the leakage of drivers to the HGV market, and this could also be used to buy out any restrictive practices. It would also add staff to their books in a time when recruitment is difficult.

Interesting move.

It's claimed elsewhere on the internet that they tried to sell the routes prior to the announcement, though it's not known if there was any interest. As you say, what is the incentive to "buy" routes in a deregulated environment? I know it's happened before, but it sounds counter-intuitive.

Anyway, all is not completely lost for the Guildford operation, as Arriva are hiring! The attachment shows a Tweet from @arrivajobs offering "Bus Driver Location: Guildford" and posted within the last 24 hours. I followed the link and I'm sure nobody will be at all surprised to hear that it quite honestly kicks off thus:

Job Summary/Introduction:
f you love giving excellent customer service, then we have the perfect role for you!

Kinda sums up the whole Arriva Bus situation really.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Official statement from Arriva and Falcon: https://www.falconbuses.co.uk/news/arriva-falcon-statement/

Joint statement from Falcon Coaches and Arriva

We have today released a joint statement with Arriva announcing that we are in advance stages for Falcon Coaches, the Surrey based bus & coach operator, to take over Arriva's bus operations in Guildford later this year.

Discussions between us remain on-going. We will continue to work closely with Surrey County Council and with trade union partners and Guildford employees looking to safeguard jobs and secure on-going bus services for the local community.

 

[Surreyman]

The appeal for Arriva must be the saving on a large redundancy bill, the staff TUPE ing across, Falcon get a trained, experienced work force (engineers/admin as well as drivers) at a time of major staff shortage.
No idea if the depot is included in this potential deal, if not, where are Falcon going to base the fleet? - I note the former ADL factory is available and being advertised!
Arriva have not actually said that the operation is loss making, maybe some service tweaking, move in a few buses from Byfleet and no head office charges may make a big difference!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The appeal for Arriva must be the saving on a large redundancy bill, the staff TUPE ing across, Falcon get a trained, experienced work force (engineers/admin as well as drivers) at a time of major staff shortage.
No idea if the depot is included in this potential deal, if not, where are Falcon going to base the fleet? - I note the former ADL factory is available and being advertised!
Arriva have not actually said that the operation is loss making, maybe some service tweaking, move in a few buses from Byfleet and no head office charges may make a big difference!

Think the attraction is as you say for both sides.

Arriva will dodge most of the exit liabilities in terms of redundancy though they will almost certainly have a number of other exit costs and write downs to accommodate. Meanwhile, Falcon get staff in a difficult area in which to recruit and some decent routes.

The Guildford depot was loss making and they did enter into amending the staff terms and conditions of employment a few years back. Their closure statement that despite this "Arriva Guildford has unfortunately experienced ongoing decline in passenger numbers over recent years, even prior to COVID19, and despite every effort to achieve efficiencies, our Guildford operation is no longer sustainable" - that would suggest that it isn't profitable despite amending staff contracts and shipping out the most highest net book value vehicles. Now whether that it's loss making before or after central overhead recovery is a factor, we just don't know.

However, it may be that with an owner that can afford more attention to detail, there is a decent operation with some reasonable returns. Certainly, my limited experience of Falcon about 3 years ago was that it was a very professional small operator, and light years ahead of both Hallmark and Arriva

 

[Robertj21a]

Falcon is run by the Telling family, who have had a long association with Arriva.

 

[capitalconnect]

Falcon is run by the Telling family, who have had a long association with Arriva.

What i find so strange is that they had sold all of their operations to Arriva many years ago but now suddenly they are interested in buying an Arriva bus operation. If this deal goes ahead i wonder if it will last for long or if they will soon sell it off to someone else. It shall be very interesting to see what happens.

 

[Flange Squeal]

What i find so strange is that they had sold all of their operations to Arriva many years ago but now suddenly they are interested in buying an Arriva bus operation. If this deal goes ahead i wonder if it will last for long or if they will soon sell it off to someone else. It shall be very interesting to see what happens.

The extensive Tellings-Golden Miller bus network in north west Surrey had been sold to National Express a few years prior to Arriva acquiring the remainder of the TGM Group. I understand that the family held on to the two units in Byfleet though and leased them back to National Express (and subsequently Abellio), hence their swift move in to them with their Falcon Coaches business once Abellio Surrey ceased operation. Initially Arena Travel moved in to one, but they had to move out as Falcon further expanded in the last year or two. Since the Abellio demise, Falcon have expanded to take on a handful of the current incarnation of various routes they had previously operated under Tellings-Golden Miller, and which were sold to National Express in the mid-2000s.

I believe TGM Group had also acquired the Arriva Colchester operation only a couple of years before selling TGM Group to Arriva!

The Arriva deal in 2008(?) also wasn’t the first time they’d sold TGM either. The original business was sold to Midland Fox in the late 1980s I believe, which via British Bus and other hands actually became Arriva later on. But the TGM subsidiary was later disposed of and bought back by the Telling family, so overall it has gone Telling ownership to Midland Fox, then back to Telling ownership again, before being sold once again, to Arriva!

As @TheGrandWazoo says, Falcon have been doing well since acquiring various former Abellio contracts in 2016 and 2017, with a particularly large investment in many new (and some youthful second hand) vehicles over the last year or so. The coach fleet has been similarly treated. They also took on the 28 Guildford to Woking when Buses Excetera ceased, and expanded further into Epsom last April taking on a number of Surrey contracts given up by RATP’s Quality Line. If this deal goes ahead, I have faith that, as someone whose local route is one of the affected, that we’ll be in good hands.

 

[markymark2000]

The appeal for Arriva must be the saving on a large redundancy bill, the staff TUPE ing across, Falcon get a trained, experienced work force (engineers/admin as well as drivers) at a time of major staff shortage.
No idea if the depot is included in this potential deal, if not, where are Falcon going to base the fleet? - I note the former ADL factory is available and being advertised!
Arriva have not actually said that the operation is loss making, maybe some service tweaking, move in a few buses from Byfleet and no head office charges may make a big difference!

Falcon may not have to do anything to get numbers up. As long as it ends up under the Falcon brand with tickets accepted (not like D&G/Chaserider), people may return to the network in bigger numbers because of the onward connections which are available. That's often one thing which comes up in surveys, people don't like having to buy more tickets to get to an end destination. Given some of the route, this could actually really benefit Falcons existing network as well.

 

[MotCO]

I've just noticed on the LOTS (London Omnibus Traction Society) website (http://www.lots.org.uk/) that Arriva has lost one of its Croydon routes (the 264) to Metrobus, but retained the 198. The 198 retains existing buses, but the 264 goes electric.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Falcon may not have to do anything to get numbers up. As long as it ends up under the Falcon brand with tickets accepted (not like D&G/Chaserider), people may return to the network in bigger numbers because of the onward connections which are available. That's often one thing which comes up in surveys, people don't like having to buy more tickets to get to an end destination. Given some of the route, this could actually really benefit Falcons existing network as well.

To be honest, that's probably not the main issue. Simply having the care and attention to detail in operation will be far more effective than any ticketing development. The Acorn ticket already exists (as does the Discovery ticket) but really, you can see Falcon doing well with a re-energised 436 and the 34/35 are crying out for some TLC.

 

[dvfmlfc]

Arriva on Merseyside.

In the late 1990s, the local Arriva operation was centred around its' ex-Ribble, long-established Bootle depot in north Liverpool. But the services it was running were mere rat-runs in competition with MTL who had a stranglehold of bus services in and around Liverpool. The Bootle depot had got to a point were it was commercially unviable for them to operate any evening or Sunday services in the city, although this state of affairs was remedied slightly when limited services in Crosby and Bootle showed enough patronage to take the financial risk to start them again.

Arriva bought MTL in February 2000. MTL was losing money left, right and centre on an ill-advised adventure into UK rail operation and a failure to go public on the stock market. Inevitably, the competing services were soon phased out, the route-numbering system was simplified and a massive clearout of elderly buses took place (the last Atlanteans withdrawn were new to Merseyside PTE and had seen 20 years service on the city's streets). To placate the Competition authorities, Gillmoss depot was sold to former MTL managers as Glenvale Transport.

Whilst the travelling public probably appreciated a settling-down of the frequent changes to services that had always existed in the deregulated era, for Arriva it began an exercise of cost-cutting and service dilution that has continued to this day. The cut and thrust of seeking new commercial activities has never been the company's strongpoint, instead they rely on a network of established bus services that still have their roots in Corporation days. The combined fleet at vesting day was about 1200 buses, now it is barely half that total.

The last new full-sized buses to the fleet was about four years ago, the company still rely on a large batch of trusted, yet tired, SB200s, most of which are over 10 years old. There is little in the way of innovation, trying new things or anything really, which is a shame because Liverpool is not as car-centric as other UK cities, and the population does rely on decent public transport for its' needs.

In comparison, their former depot at Gillmoss, now under Stagecoach control, has seen massive investment in the double-deck fleet, and they are always prepared to try something new - a express route between Liverpool and Rhyl during the summer was a success.

I'm not saying the management are clueless, but they are complacent and do nothing to attract people to public transport.

 

[Llandudno]

Arriva on Merseyside.

In the late 1990s, the local Arriva operation was centred around its' ex-Ribble, long-established Bootle depot in north Liverpool. But the services it was running were mere rat-runs in competition with MTL who had a stranglehold of bus services in and around Liverpool. The Bootle depot had got to a point were it was commercially unviable for them to operate any evening or Sunday services in the city, although this state of affairs was remedied slightly when limited services in Crosby and Bootle showed enough patronage to take the financial risk to start them again.

Arriva bought MTL in February 2000. MTL was losing money left, right and centre on an ill-advised adventure into UK rail operation and a failure to go public on the stock market. Inevitably, the competing services were soon phased out, the route-numbering system was simplified and a massive clearout of elderly buses took place (the last Atlanteans withdrawn were new to Merseyside PTE and had seen 20 years service on the city's streets). To placate the Competition authorities, Gillmoss depot was sold to former MTL managers as Glenvale Transport.

Whilst the travelling public probably appreciated a settling-down of the frequent changes to services that had always existed in the deregulated era, for Arriva it began an exercise of cost-cutting and service dilution that has continued to this day. The cut and thrust of seeking new commercial activities has never been the company's strongpoint, instead they rely on a network of established bus services that still have their roots in Corporation days. The combined fleet at vesting day was about 1200 buses, now it is barely half that total.

The last new full-sized buses to the fleet was about four years ago, the company still rely on a large batch of trusted, yet tired, SB200s, most of which are over 10 years old. There is little in the way of innovation, trying new things or anything really, which is a shame because Liverpool is not as car-centric as other UK cities, and the population does rely on decent public transport for its' needs.

In comparison, their former depot at Gillmoss, now under Stagecoach control, has seen massive investment in the double-deck fleet, and they are always prepared to try something new - a express route between Liverpool and Rhyl during the summer was a success.

I'm not saying the management are clueless, but they are complacent and do nothing to attract people to public transport.

Similar situation in north Wales.

Network retrenchment, depot closures, routes withdrawn, frequencies all over the place, evening and Sunday services slashed.

Smart new ‘branded’ buses a thing of the past.

No marketing and no innovation. Recipe for further declining patronage.
And don’t get me started on the Arriva website…!

It looks as though the Arriva hatchet is about to be applied to Macclesfield and east Cheshire as well.

 

[daodao]

It looks as though the Arriva hatchet is about to be applied to Macclesfield and east Cheshire as well.

I have posted information about the imminent changes in East Cheshire on the (re-opened) East Cheshire Bus News thread.

Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

Further Arriva cutbacks will be occurring in East Cheshire from 14th November 2021 according to the Cheshire East Council website. Exact details of the new service frequencies are not yet available. However, the number of core town routes in Macclesfield is being reduced from 6 to 4 with just...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[RELL6L]

To be honest, that's probably not the main issue. Simply having the care and attention to detail in operation will be far more effective than any ticketing development. The Acorn ticket already exists (as does the Discovery ticket) but really, you can see Falcon doing well with a re-energised 436 and the 34/35 are crying out for some TLC.

I quite agree that someone who cares can probably make much more of this than Arriva have. There are some good routes here and (assuming the 479 is tendered) nothing that looks awful.
Judging by BusTimes and errors and omissions excepted it looks like the current Guildford fleet is:
10 Citaros
22 Versas
2 Darts
11 E200s
1 Sprinter

Falcon's current fleet is all E200s so I guess they will be OK with Arriva's Darts and E200s even though they are 12-15 years old. They'll have little option but to take on the Versas as well, these are mostly 10 years old, some people seem able to keep them going fairly well. But I can't see them wanting the Citaros, too complex and troublesome. Half of these are 2006, half are 2012, I am sure Arriva could find a home for them. Might depend on how quickly Falcon can source some new vehicles.

I doubt if the depot is included although they might allow them a period on a short lease to find alternative premises. If they have space at Byfleet then some routes (436, 91 for sure, maybe 34/35 also) could be run from there.

Assuming they are keeping the depot and given the saving on the redundancy bill then Arriva ought to be verging on paying Falcon to take it off their hands....

Good luck to them, I hope this works out.

 

[MotCO]

I quite agree that someone who cares can probably make much more of this than Arriva have. There are some good routes here and (assuming the 479 is tendered) nothing that looks awful.
Judging by BusTimes and errors and omissions excepted it looks like the current Guildford fleet is:
10 Citaros
22 Versas
2 Darts
11 E200s
1 Sprinter

Falcon's current fleet is all E200s so I guess they will be OK with Arriva's Darts and E200s even though they are 12-15 years old. They'll have little option but to take on the Versas as well, these are mostly 10 years old, some people seem able to keep them going fairly well. But I can't see them wanting the Citaros, too complex and troublesome. Half of these are 2006, half are 2012, I am sure Arriva could find a home for them. Might depend on how quickly Falcon can source some new vehicles.

I doubt if the depot is included although they might allow them a period on a short lease to find alternative premises. If they have space at Byfleet then some routes (436, 91 for sure, maybe 34/35 also) could be run from there.

Assuming they are keeping the depot and given the saving on the redundancy bill then Arriva ought to be verging on paying Falcon to take it off their hands....

Good luck to them, I hope this works out.

Or will Arriva do what they usually do and move all the half-decent buses out and leave a rump of 20 year old buses only fit for the scrap yard?

If so, Falcon will need to invest in some new buses, and if the depot is not included, I would not be surprised if it was a zero cost transfer, or Arriva may pay Falcon in lieu of the redundancy bill - after all, they will make some money on the disposal of the depot.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I quite agree that someone who cares can probably make much more of this than Arriva have. There are some good routes here and (assuming the 479 is tendered) nothing that looks awful.
Judging by BusTimes and errors and omissions excepted it looks like the current Guildford fleet is:
10 Citaros
22 Versas
2 Darts
11 E200s
1 Sprinter

Falcon's current fleet is all E200s so I guess they will be OK with Arriva's Darts and E200s even though they are 12-15 years old. They'll have little option but to take on the Versas as well, these are mostly 10 years old, some people seem able to keep them going fairly well. But I can't see them wanting the Citaros, too complex and troublesome. Half of these are 2006, half are 2012, I am sure Arriva could find a home for them. Might depend on how quickly Falcon can source some new vehicles.

I doubt if the depot is included although they might allow them a period on a short lease to find alternative premises. If they have space at Byfleet then some routes (436, 91 for sure, maybe 34/35 also) could be run from there.

Assuming they are keeping the depot and given the saving on the redundancy bill then Arriva ought to be verging on paying Falcon to take it off their hands....

Good luck to them, I hope this works out.

I'd anticipate that the e200s may move across but perhaps not the Citaros or even the Versas. There's plenty of tat in the Arriva Southern Counties fleet that could be replaced by those.

Ideally, a short term lease on Leas Road whilst they obtain an alternative depot somewhere would be best. I don't think they can accommodate much more into Byfleet; in time, there may be some swapping about of routes; the 28/73 would seem more easily operated by a Guildford/Woking depot whilst the 436 does fit nicely with Byfleet's patch - coincidentally, four buses apiece.

Or will Arriva do what they usually do and move all the half-decent buses out and leave a rump of 20 year old buses only fit for the scrap yard?

If so, Falcon will need to invest in some new buses, and if the depot is not included, I would not be surprised if it was a zero cost transfer, or Arriva may pay Falcon in lieu of the redundancy bill - after all, they will make some money on the disposal of the depot.

Arriva may have done that but so did First with some of their sales. The issue is that you have fleet that is being depreciated at X rate and so is sat on the balance sheet with a net book value of Y. However, the incoming operator may not agree with that valuation, or would not want a load of non-standard but newish/mid life fleet and would sooner replace with their own vehicles.

 

[Surreyman]

I'd anticipate that the e200s may move across but perhaps not the Citaros or even the Versas. There's plenty of tat in the Arriva Southern Counties fleet that could be replaced by those.

Ideally, a short term lease on Leas Road whilst they obtain an alternative depot somewhere would be best. I don't think they can accommodate much more into Byfleet; in time, there may be some swapping about of routes; the 28/73 would seem more easily operated by a Guildford/Woking depot whilst the 436 does fit nicely with Byfleet's patch - coincidentally, four buses apiece.

Arriva may have done that but so did First with some of their sales. The issue is that you have fleet that is being depreciated at X rate and so is sat on the balance sheet with a net book value of Y. However, the incoming operator may not agree with that valuation, or would not want a load of non-standard but newish/mid life fleet and would sooner replace with their own vehicles.

Monitoring 'bus times' for the last few days, the PVR for Arriva Guildford appears to be as follows: -

Route A between 1-3 buses, varying on time of day.
Route 18 less than 1 (route is run with a vehicle sourced from other routes).
Route 91 PVR - 5
Route 34/35 (+134/135 schools) PVR - 10
Routes 36/37 PVR - 4/5
Routes 53/63 PVR - 6
Route 91 PVR - 5
Route 436 PVR - 3/4
Route 479 PVR - 3/4
PVR varies between 33 to 37 in Peaks & School times, less at other times.
I have not included route 47 odd journeys interworked with 91 or Route 28 1 journey.
Route 3 is a Sunday only tender.(Safeguard operate commercially other times).

Current Guildford fleet: -
1001 Merc Sprinter - crew bus but sometimes used in service.
2 Dart/Plaxton 8.9m - 1558 & 1563.
13 Merc' Citaros - 3891/3892/3893/3894/3895/3896/3897/3901/3903/3904/3907/3909/3910.
of these, 3892 believed to be withdrawn and 3893/3894/3896 haven't run in service recently.
11 ADL Enviro 200 10.8m 3984/3987/3989/3990/3991/3992/3993/4044/4047/4052/4053.
22 Optare Versa 2401/4183/4200/4201/4202/4204/4205/4206/4207/4208/4209/4210/4211/4212/4213/4214/4215/4216/4217/4218/4227/4229.
The 2 Darts were believed to have been temporary loans but now seem permanent.
Excluding the Sprinter, there would seem to be 42 serviceable buses to serve a max PVR of 37.
The allocations to routes are completely mixed, all types on all routes.
Can't claim 100% accuracy but must be very close!

 

[duncombec]

Monitoring 'bus times' for the last few days, the PVR for Arriva Guildford appears to be as follows: -

Route A between 1-3 buses, varying on time of day.
Route 18 less than 1 (route is run with a vehicle sourced from other routes).
Route 91 PVR - 5
Route 34/35 (+134/135 schools) PVR - 10
Routes 36/37 PVR - 4/5
Routes 53/63 PVR - 6
Route 91 PVR - 5
Route 436 PVR - 3/4
Route 479 PVR - 3/4
PVR varies between 33 to 37 in Peaks & School times, less at other times.
I have not included route 47 odd journeys interworked with 91 or Route 28 1 journey.
Route 3 is a Sunday only tender.(Safeguard operate commercially other times).

Current Guildford fleet: -
1001 Merc Sprinter - crew bus but sometimes used in service.
2 Dart/Plaxton 8.9m - 1558 & 1563.
13 Merc' Citaros - 3891/3892/3893/3894/3895/3896/3897/3901/3903/3904/3907/3909/3910.
of these, 3892 believed to be withdrawn and 3893/3894/3896 haven't run in service recently.
11 ADL Enviro 200 10.8m 3984/3987/3989/3990/3991/3992/3993/4044/4047/4052/4053.
22 Optare Versa 2401/4183/4200/4201/4202/4204/4205/4206/4207/4208/4209/4210/4211/4212/4213/4214/4215/4216/4217/4218/4227/4229.
The 2 Darts were believed to have been temporary loans but now seem permanent.
Excluding the Sprinter, there would seem to be 42 serviceable buses to serve a max PVR of 37.
The allocations to routes are completely mixed, all types on all routes.
Can't claim 100% accuracy but must be very close!

Do Guildford still post the runout sheet on the door of the inspectors office at the bus station? That used to be, how shall we say, very helpful.

It's worth noting that Arriva Kent & Surrey's [AKS] tracking in general can be suspect at best - vehicles will run for weeks pretending to be what they aren't, sometimes two vehicles running under the same identity. In fact, with the recent loan of four vehicles from Ware to Maidstone, FIVE vehicles were all running under the same identify of "SP MD" [Spare Maidstone]... needless to say, bustimes struggled to handle that one...

I mention this because the other AKS sprinters have all had their ticket machines removed, and any vehicle tracking under that identity is actually something else. I don't know for certain about 1001, but I'd be surprised if it was in service regardless of what tracking says.

Also worth noting that Guildford and Tunbridge Wells will have vehicles on loan to/from each other, so what is tracking this week may not be an allocation. There was one vehicle that until it was moved to Leicester was (at least semi) 'officially' allocated to TW Monday to Friday, but GF on Saturdays and Sundays to help out with rail replacement!

The current status of loans in the AKS fleet is also quite unclear. 1558 and 1563 have been on loan for months from Colchester, whilst Gillingham has had five buses on loan from Northfleet for so long (September 2020) it is no longer clear whether they are still loaned (NF has still has a reduced PVR post-Covid) or formal transfers that have been forgotten to be formalised.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

The allocations to routes are completely mixed, all types on all routes.

I don't think the Citaros ever work to Cranleigh/Horsham or Epsom on the 53/63 and 479 routes respectively. They seem to be based mostly on the routes serving Woking (34/35, 91, 436).

 

[Surreyman]

Do Guildford still post the runout sheet on the door of the inspectors office at the bus station? That used to be, how shall we say, very helpful.

It's worth noting that Arriva Kent & Surrey's [AKS] tracking in general can be suspect at best - vehicles will run for weeks pretending to be what they aren't, sometimes two vehicles running under the same identity. In fact, with the recent loan of four vehicles from Ware to Maidstone, FIVE vehicles were all running under the same identify of "SP MD" [Spare Maidstone]... needless to say, bustimes struggled to handle that one...

I mention this because the other AKS sprinters have all had their ticket machines removed, and any vehicle tracking under that identity is actually something else. I don't know for certain about 1001, but I'd be surprised if it was in service regardless of what tracking says.

Also worth noting that Guildford and Tunbridge Wells will have vehicles on loan to/from each other, so what is tracking this week may not be an allocation. There was one vehicle that until it was moved to Leicester was (at least semi) 'officially' allocated to TW Monday to Friday, but GF on Saturdays and Sundays to help out with rail replacement!

The current status of loans in the AKS fleet is also quite unclear. 1558 and 1563 have been on loan for months from Colchester, whilst Gillingham has had five buses on loan from Northfleet for so long (September 2020) it is no longer clear whether they are still loaned (NF has still has a reduced PVR post-Covid) or formal transfers that have been forgotten to be formalised.

Based on personal observation, 1001 does see occasional use.
There certainly seems to be a regular pattern of Vehicle loans/transfers between GF and Kent.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't think the Citaros ever work to Cranleigh/Horsham or Epsom on the 53/63 and 479 routes respectively. They seem to be based mostly on the routes serving Woking (34/35, 91, 436).

They are usually on the 436 for obvious reasons!

 

[Surreyman]

I don't think the Citaros ever work to Cranleigh/Horsham or Epsom on the 53/63 and 479 routes respectively. They seem to be based mostly on the routes serving Woking (34/35, 91, 436).

You may be right, I can't recall physically seeing any Mercs' on these routes.

 

[MercedesCitaro]

You may be right, I can't recall physically seeing any Mercs' on these routes.

Citaros have worked the 53/63/479 plenty of times. It is not common and they are not allocated to these routes but it does happen from time to time. I have seen them on each of these routes a few times and there are also some photos on Flickr of the Citaros on these three routes.

 

[Flange Squeal]

I don't think they can accommodate much more into Byfleet; in time, there may be some swapping about of routes; the 28/73 would seem more easily operated by a Guildford/Woking depot whilst the 436 does fit nicely with Byfleet's patch - coincidentally, four buses apiece.

You're right about Byfleet. Initially when the Telling family operations moved back into Wintersells after Abellio's exit, they utilised Unit 20A themselves and Arena Travel took on Unit 5. As both the coach and bus sides of Falcon have grown since though, 20A was outgrown and Arena moved out of Unit 5 late last year to allow Falcon to move their expanded fleet in to the second site on Wintersells estate. The roads also appear to be used overnight, as was the case with Abellio too. There is also another local site Falcon use near Chobham, used by a few coaches, but that doesn't look to be prime depot material, although I guess an increase in discs could potentially help in the short term while something alternative was set up closer to Guildford (wonder if there's anything decent going on Slyfield!).

 

[Surreyman]

Alternative Depot sites in Guildford are scarce to non existent, it took Safeguard some years to find a new depot and Stagecoaches site at Peasmarsh is not ideal, only single deckers can be worked on undercover. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the former ADL Slyfield site is being advertised but is probably too large and too expensive.
I suspect that a Falcon takeover will only work if Leas Road is part of the deal at least in the short term.
Since Covid, warehouse sites have been snapped by by various parcel/delivery firms, Falcon would require a site with parking for at least 40 buses plus maintenance facilities, they might be able to base the 436 and possibly 91 at Byfleet but as another poster has said, physical parking space is very limited irrespective of the no of vehicles allowed on the operators licence.

 

[MotCO]

If garage space at such a premium, is it possible to outpost some buses at Safeguard's premises, or another 'competitor', or indeed, to sub-contract some routes to them?

There was a critique of Arriva in Buses magazine a couple of months ago, and a short letter in response in the next edition, which tried to rebut the problems. There is a full response expected in the November edition - I wonder what it will say? Head in the sand, or acknowledgement of the problems with an action plan?

I have now had a chance to read the article in November's Buses magazine, and I think it is more 'head in the sand' than action plans. The CEO identified three stakeholders - staff, councils/ other commissioners, and passengers. Interestingly, not shareholders. The CEO referred to more diversity to attract staff, developing plans for Build Bus Better, but not much about passengers. He did say they were moving into a digital age and that paper timetables would no longer be produced, but mentioned nothing about their website - strange that - nor anything much about improving the age profile of the fleet, except to note that they were going to have 10 hydrogen buses in Liverpool, and that future purchases were likely to be EV.

As I say, not really responding to the type of objective criticism aired in this thread.

Edit:removed duplicate quote