overthewater
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I had assumed they had delayed the accounts and merged some of covid period into the latest accounts, I can see further cuts coming then.
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Arriva Buses (including Greenline)
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I had assumed they had delayed the accounts and merged some of covid period into the latest accounts, I can see further cuts coming then.
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TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Having a look at the accounts, there are some things that catch the eye.
2016 was a £1.6m profit, but that had slid to a £0.9m loss. The reason being that revenue had decreased (cited loss of contracts etc) whilst staff shortages etc had led to increased staff costs. So whilst revenue had dropped from £45m to £43m, the operating cost remained constant at £37m. Management costs had also remained relatively stable increasing from £10m to £10.5m.
2018 saw a minor reduction in both revenue and operating cost (and shown as such in the change in staff numbers and a substantial cut in managerial costs) yet admin expenses went up by £2m to £12.7m - that's 20%. There was mention of the cost of the new depot in T Wells but not to that extent. Not only that but this £2m uplift is also there in 2019. So since 2017, management expenses have increased £2m p.a. though the actual number of managerial positions has reduced.
Also, the cost of sales (e.g. the operating cost) was fairly constant as I said during 2016/7, a reduction in activity not being reflected in a reduction in cost because of the impact of staff shortages and so use of agency or staff deployed from elsewhere. That cost dropped a little in 2018 as did revenue, so again more cuts in activity? However, in 2019, whilst revenue remains the same, the cost increased by £6.5m. £4.2m is an asset impairment as has been stated, but what's the other £2.3m?
I might suggest that more money is being funnelled back to the centre and the accounts are opaque enough not to show how!
2016 was a £1.6m profit, but that had slid to a £0.9m loss. The reason being that revenue had decreased (cited loss of contracts etc) whilst staff shortages etc had led to increased staff costs. So whilst revenue had dropped from £45m to £43m, the operating cost remained constant at £37m. Management costs had also remained relatively stable increasing from £10m to £10.5m.
2018 saw a minor reduction in both revenue and operating cost (and shown as such in the change in staff numbers and a substantial cut in managerial costs) yet admin expenses went up by £2m to £12.7m - that's 20%. There was mention of the cost of the new depot in T Wells but not to that extent. Not only that but this £2m uplift is also there in 2019. So since 2017, management expenses have increased £2m p.a. though the actual number of managerial positions has reduced.
Also, the cost of sales (e.g. the operating cost) was fairly constant as I said during 2016/7, a reduction in activity not being reflected in a reduction in cost because of the impact of staff shortages and so use of agency or staff deployed from elsewhere. That cost dropped a little in 2018 as did revenue, so again more cuts in activity? However, in 2019, whilst revenue remains the same, the cost increased by £6.5m. £4.2m is an asset impairment as has been stated, but what's the other £2.3m?
I might suggest that more money is being funnelled back to the centre and the accounts are opaque enough not to show how!
The brand name is listed as the intangible asset. So we compare Kent & Surrey's £1.14m with Cymru's £1.3m, London South's 3.6m, London South's £6.2m, Kent Thameside's £920k, Midlands £1.84m... it seems on the low side in comparison, to be honest.
Do we assume that the local subsidiaries make a loss (aka brand name and other management costs) and the UK headquarters make a profit, so that overall the company is trading profitably? If so, why make the transfer? Or do the profits get transferred abroad to their parent company (DB) where the tax regime may be more advantageous? Or is it all a ruse to make DB look more profitable in Germany for a potential sell-off?
One would think that the company would do much better without the Arriva name! How about some local branding instead...
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
The issues with Arriva are far more deep-seated than that. You can plonk some local branding like Arriva serving Northumbria but even have more local (e.g. a local livery, perhaps grey and white and red) but it's about having good people in positions and trusting them to run their businesses with targets based on profit but also growth and development. From what I've heard (which, in fairness, I can't corroborate), the debacle with the website sums up the issue. Centrally managed, little local input, etc.
Sorry to repeat myself but Arriva 2020 is very similar to First 2010 in a number of respects. However, don't expect to see a flurry of disposals (perhaps the odd one a la Yorkshire Tiger) so those folks who like to speculate, splitting bits off and appropriating them to other firms, may well be disappointed!
Robertj21a
On Moderation
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- 22 Sep 2013
- Messages
- 7,518
I haven't bothered with that rubbish website for ages. Has it still really not been improved, massively ?
Llandudno
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Dec 2014
- Messages
- 2,199
It may have improved slightly, it as now just about possible to download a timetable for the route number you are looking for, assuming that you already know it!
I have only checked the Welsh routes though…!
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Over the last couple of years, I've not had the opportunity to travel by Arriva that much. However, when I have travelled on Arriva in the North East, Surrey and North Midlands, it's been quite an underwhelming experience. Arriva Yorkshire has been better. However, I had the opportunity to have a day out and experience three different OpCos (and I could've sneaked a fourth) to see if my opinions have been tainted unduly. As with my usual "Mystery Hopper" travelogues, I hope it's moderately entertaining, and perhaps gives you a few ideas of places to explore. Also, as ever, any feedback or corrections will be gratefully accepted.
I can only assume that Gary Barlow left Frodsham for tax reasons but it was here that I began my day out. The first thing to mention is that I was on an Arriva North West and Wales day ticket which is phenomenal value for £6. Another observation of early morning Frodsham is that there is a major foot issue as I walked past four podiatrists on the main street! I'll make the point that despite me living in the North West on two separate occasions and best mate living in North Wales, most of my exploring had been confined to Greater Manchester or Gwynedd/Conwy so much of this was either new or a long time since I'd visisted.
I waited for my first bus which was the X30 to Chester on a service that is coordinated with Stagecoach service 2 Chester to Runcorn Shopping City. The standard kit for this route are MAN Ecocity CNG gas buses with Caetano bodywork, delivered in two batches. Mine was a 17 plate and it was very pleasant, albeit in the jarring sky blue with green flashes eco livery. They have good quality leather seats, USBs, wifi etc - yet none of this is advertised on these vehicles externally. The large luggage rack point to their former use on the 500 Airport service that has now been truncated. As gas buses, they are reasonably quiet but it was hard to gauge performance as the route benefits from generous timings at that time of day. We arrived bang on time into Chester bus interchange. This is a modern facility that is miles better than the motley collection of shelters in the old bus exchange, and the Soviet era Delamere Street bus station of the 1970s. However, the coffee shop would've been welcome but looks like it's a covid business casualty.
Oddly, one of the main interurban routes from Chester is to Wrexham on their Sapphire spec service 1 but that doesn't appear to serve the Interchange, but instead running nearby and then to the rail station. I wandered down there to see Stagecoach's service 1 loading; I know people sometimes get annoyed by confusing numbers but Chester is the worst example where there's a Stagecoach 1 (to Liverpool), an Arriva 1 (to Wrexham), and then from the bus station, a jointly operated Stagecoach/Arriva 1 to Blacon. It's all rather silly. Nearly as funny as the Quality Partnership on the Blacon route where Arriva have Pulsars whilst Stagecoach still use the Eclipses they inherited from First! The Arriva 1 to Wrexham duly arrived, being another 2017 vintage vehicle. The e400citys that Arriva bought represent the most encouraging investment on this route. The green Crosville Wales VRs that I'd last travelled on this route (yes, that long) were replaced by new Olympians in early Arriva days. They had sadly replaced by Darts (a low point), then by Pulsars, then e400s refurbed to Sapphire spec, and then these machines. Very nice they are too with skylights, good seating with tables, USBs - it was a very pleasant ride to Wrexham. However, and this perhaps one of my main frustrations with Arriva - they get quite a bit right but then they let themselves down. Great buses, good service, but the marketing.... Most are route branded and they carry info about the USBs etc but it's all so discreet and not noticeable. Instead, there's much more emphasis on the Arriva name, etc - corporate tub-thumping should be secondary to telling your customers about the product.
Nonetheless, I have to say that looking at the local Wrexham fleet, it was in pretty good order. Plenty of 15 plate e200s on local routes, nicely appointed, and just the odd aged Solo that were again well presented. My next service was to Mold, operated by one of a pair of 12 plate Solos that I suspect are allocated to the route. It had the new livery of which I'm not a fan, but the interior was again a pleasant, leather seated affair as we made our way through some intriguing countryside of small villages like Caergwrle and suddenly, out of nowhere, the impressive gates of the less impressive Leeswood Hall. It was quite a pleasant run on the 26. At Mold (poor name for a pleasant town), it was into the bus station. Now, it's time to whinge about councils. There's a decent, if functional bus station that is essentially a road with 3/4 shelters on each side. That much is fine. There wasn't a timetable in sight - just posters directing you online which seems a bit of a cop out. However, there isn't even signage to say which bus goes from which of the 7 stands your bus might leave from. There's also a building, next to the toilets, that might have had a council info point at some point? Why not rent that out as a cafe with some discounted rent and get them to stock timetables as well as providing some amenities. Another thing - I would have thought that Mold to Chester would've been a likely Sapphire conversion (back in the day) so it just being a standard Arriva route was a little surprising. Lastly, I don't know how the allocation of Broughton depot compares but it feels like there's been a marked decrease from the last time I visited Mold on a bus....mind you, the depot was still open then! However, it feels like routes in the Mold area are much less having been lost to GHA (of old) and firms like P&O Lloyd.
My next machine was one of the now declining Daf SB120/Wright Cadets that used to proliferate, dating from the Arriva "sea green" phase of laminates. To be fair, the machine was a little careworn but internally, it wasn't that bad, clearly having had a mid life refurb in the blue check moquette. The 5 to Ellesmere Port (was it a former GHA route?) attracts these older machines but they're not bad. I always thought them better than the equivalent Pointer Dart and so it was. A perfectly fine trip around more obscure Clwydian spots like Buckley. Again, running times seem quite relaxed and loadings seemed quite healthy. One particular gripe of mine is the Arriva trait of plastering internal notices everywhere. There were THREE different A3 banners that riffed along the theme of ringing the bell and sitting till the bus stopped. Meanwhile, you had an A4 note that I could read about the excellent £1 evening flat fare but who (apart from me) would see it? Another moan (sorry) is the taping off of the seat behind the driver, with some hazard tape wafting gently like a Geoff Marshall bin bag, to stop people from sitting there. After over 12 months, you'd have thought they could have done something more professional (a la Stagecoach and First) especially as every seat back had a covid notice.
I decamped at Queensferry and elected to catch the next bus to Chester. Rather than the direct Sapphire 10 along Sealand Road, it was the longer 11 via Broughton affording great views of the Airbus site and the Beluga aircraft. The Daf DB300 Gemini is approaching 10 years old and once again, I was impressed by the internal presentation and the quality of the seating. Much better than the First B9/e400 of a similar age that arrived for the Olympics. The headrests have Cymru Coastliner stitched in but again, no external branding and precious little internal promotion. I arrived back in Chester in time for a little sightseeing before catching the X30 back through to Warrington for a secondary loop of the day. This was of the same batch of MAN gas buses as earlier but had caught the Streetlite affliction of an emergency door handle rattling like a machine gun. It was a steady journey along back via Frodsham with good views afforded across the Mersey to the various petrochemical works but also Liverpool Cathedral in the distance. This route then dives in for a loop through Runcorn new town and past the 1970s era Arriva depot before, to my embarrassment, my first ever trip on the Runcorn Busway. That was quite fun though Runcorn Shopping City (aka Halton Lea) looks almost preserved in aspic as you travel through. Then back out and the chance for the MAN to stretch its legs to Warrington as we passed the local Warrington BT depot opposite some flats where the Crosville depot once stood.
Warrington Interchange is very nearly everything that you want in a modern bus station. It's large enough (nearly) and provides a central waiting area. It's close to Warrington Central though the signage could be better. I was also impressed by the state of the Warrington fleet with very few in the faded red and cream, with most looking smart in the Best Impressions designed livery. I've been to Warrington many times, had nights out there, but have never been there by bus! Some more observations, and again would appreciate some local knowledge. Arriva used to have a depot off Winwick Road, successor to the Crosville operations and the commercial bus war they had with WBT. Perhaps there have been some route swaps or whatever but.... does Arriva have a smaller presence in the town these days? It feels it might do but I don't know. Also, the 40 minute frequency on the 329 (and seen elsewhere on the network)... is that some temporary Covid timetable as it seems very odd for what should be a busy route? It was time for a Pulsar. It's a DAF, it's perfectly fine and functional, not as good as others, a bit cheaper and hasn't really moved on....so almost a machine that embodies Arriva! I actually quite like them and it was a surprisingly scenic run from Warrington out to Parr before it being more urban into St Helens, the town that still seems more Lancashire than Liverpool.
However, St Helens was the place that really did sum up the travails of Arriva in terms of new vehicles. The fleet is not bad with a mix of Pulsars, Solos and e400s and the odd Cadet. Nothing that old but crucially nothing that new. A large batch of 64 plate e400s are employed on trunk routes, such as the 10/10A to Liverpool but they are now looking less impressive against the mmcs that Stagecoach employ on the same route. The panic button doesn't need to be hit but the signs are there of a lack of investment. In fact, the only modern vehicle was a solitary Arriva Click Sprinter, now used (I think) on crew ferry work; incidentally, I notice that Runcorn depot has a fleet of vans from Enterprise on that work! It was time for another Pulsar, employed on the 89 to the Airport. Not certain if that had ever had branded fleet but surprised there is no promotion on that basis. We headed down to Prescot where I absentmindedly missed the stop I needed, so I rang the bell.... nothing. None of the bells at the rear worked so it was only some distance out of town where I could get the bus to stop!! It was a long and brisk walk/run back into Prescot where I discovered the bus station is partially closed so was hunting around to locate my stop. My 61 to Runcorn was approaching but fortunately, the lady driver saw my panicked face and stopped to let me on. She must've had a sixth sense.
So it was another gas bus but from the earlier batch (no USBs) allocated to Runcorn depot for the 61; another route working on a 40 min headway (Covid?). Now, a word of warning to prospective travellers... there are plenty of good bus services with great scenery and some, like the 329, are surprisingly engaging. The 61 is a turgid grind around everywhere through nondescript suburbs and industrial wastelands. It must rank as one of the most boring routes going - not one for sightseeing. I was on for the duration or so I thought. We reached Runcorn old town bus station where we were encouraged to change onto another service as the 61 had an unscheduled 10 minute wait so I rang down the bus station to the waiting 110 (another Pulsar) headed for Murdishaw but allowing me to get to Shopping City (Halton Lea North). Unfortunately, the X30 knocks off early so the final bus of the day necessitated a £2.60 fare courtesy of Stagecoach's service 2 to Frodsham. An e300, it wore the new livery (!) and internally, it had a plethora of adverts for anyone and everyone but Stagecoach seemingly. When you see First improving (more in some places than others) and the good things done by Go Ahead and Transdev, it's sad to see two major corporates appearing to be disappearing up their corporate backsides in this way when the focus should be, more than ever, on the customer.
Overall, I think Arriva's NW, Cymru and Murkeyside subsidiaries are amongst the better fleets. The fleet is generally well presented and they're punctual and well driven. The £6 day ticket is indecently cheap. The investment has been there in the past and that is evident. However, the lack of investment will soon catch up with Arriva and as for the marketing, it's really not very good. Let's hope that DB finally get off the pot, as it were, and perhaps then Arriva can at least begin to sort its issues out. As always, hope you enjoyed this travelogue; it was certainly good seeing places by bus that I'd only done so by car, or hadn't bussed to for many years.
I can only assume that Gary Barlow left Frodsham for tax reasons but it was here that I began my day out. The first thing to mention is that I was on an Arriva North West and Wales day ticket which is phenomenal value for £6. Another observation of early morning Frodsham is that there is a major foot issue as I walked past four podiatrists on the main street! I'll make the point that despite me living in the North West on two separate occasions and best mate living in North Wales, most of my exploring had been confined to Greater Manchester or Gwynedd/Conwy so much of this was either new or a long time since I'd visisted.
I waited for my first bus which was the X30 to Chester on a service that is coordinated with Stagecoach service 2 Chester to Runcorn Shopping City. The standard kit for this route are MAN Ecocity CNG gas buses with Caetano bodywork, delivered in two batches. Mine was a 17 plate and it was very pleasant, albeit in the jarring sky blue with green flashes eco livery. They have good quality leather seats, USBs, wifi etc - yet none of this is advertised on these vehicles externally. The large luggage rack point to their former use on the 500 Airport service that has now been truncated. As gas buses, they are reasonably quiet but it was hard to gauge performance as the route benefits from generous timings at that time of day. We arrived bang on time into Chester bus interchange. This is a modern facility that is miles better than the motley collection of shelters in the old bus exchange, and the Soviet era Delamere Street bus station of the 1970s. However, the coffee shop would've been welcome but looks like it's a covid business casualty.
Oddly, one of the main interurban routes from Chester is to Wrexham on their Sapphire spec service 1 but that doesn't appear to serve the Interchange, but instead running nearby and then to the rail station. I wandered down there to see Stagecoach's service 1 loading; I know people sometimes get annoyed by confusing numbers but Chester is the worst example where there's a Stagecoach 1 (to Liverpool), an Arriva 1 (to Wrexham), and then from the bus station, a jointly operated Stagecoach/Arriva 1 to Blacon. It's all rather silly. Nearly as funny as the Quality Partnership on the Blacon route where Arriva have Pulsars whilst Stagecoach still use the Eclipses they inherited from First! The Arriva 1 to Wrexham duly arrived, being another 2017 vintage vehicle. The e400citys that Arriva bought represent the most encouraging investment on this route. The green Crosville Wales VRs that I'd last travelled on this route (yes, that long) were replaced by new Olympians in early Arriva days. They had sadly replaced by Darts (a low point), then by Pulsars, then e400s refurbed to Sapphire spec, and then these machines. Very nice they are too with skylights, good seating with tables, USBs - it was a very pleasant ride to Wrexham. However, and this perhaps one of my main frustrations with Arriva - they get quite a bit right but then they let themselves down. Great buses, good service, but the marketing.... Most are route branded and they carry info about the USBs etc but it's all so discreet and not noticeable. Instead, there's much more emphasis on the Arriva name, etc - corporate tub-thumping should be secondary to telling your customers about the product.
Nonetheless, I have to say that looking at the local Wrexham fleet, it was in pretty good order. Plenty of 15 plate e200s on local routes, nicely appointed, and just the odd aged Solo that were again well presented. My next service was to Mold, operated by one of a pair of 12 plate Solos that I suspect are allocated to the route. It had the new livery of which I'm not a fan, but the interior was again a pleasant, leather seated affair as we made our way through some intriguing countryside of small villages like Caergwrle and suddenly, out of nowhere, the impressive gates of the less impressive Leeswood Hall. It was quite a pleasant run on the 26. At Mold (poor name for a pleasant town), it was into the bus station. Now, it's time to whinge about councils. There's a decent, if functional bus station that is essentially a road with 3/4 shelters on each side. That much is fine. There wasn't a timetable in sight - just posters directing you online which seems a bit of a cop out. However, there isn't even signage to say which bus goes from which of the 7 stands your bus might leave from. There's also a building, next to the toilets, that might have had a council info point at some point? Why not rent that out as a cafe with some discounted rent and get them to stock timetables as well as providing some amenities. Another thing - I would have thought that Mold to Chester would've been a likely Sapphire conversion (back in the day) so it just being a standard Arriva route was a little surprising. Lastly, I don't know how the allocation of Broughton depot compares but it feels like there's been a marked decrease from the last time I visited Mold on a bus....mind you, the depot was still open then! However, it feels like routes in the Mold area are much less having been lost to GHA (of old) and firms like P&O Lloyd.
My next machine was one of the now declining Daf SB120/Wright Cadets that used to proliferate, dating from the Arriva "sea green" phase of laminates. To be fair, the machine was a little careworn but internally, it wasn't that bad, clearly having had a mid life refurb in the blue check moquette. The 5 to Ellesmere Port (was it a former GHA route?) attracts these older machines but they're not bad. I always thought them better than the equivalent Pointer Dart and so it was. A perfectly fine trip around more obscure Clwydian spots like Buckley. Again, running times seem quite relaxed and loadings seemed quite healthy. One particular gripe of mine is the Arriva trait of plastering internal notices everywhere. There were THREE different A3 banners that riffed along the theme of ringing the bell and sitting till the bus stopped. Meanwhile, you had an A4 note that I could read about the excellent £1 evening flat fare but who (apart from me) would see it? Another moan (sorry) is the taping off of the seat behind the driver, with some hazard tape wafting gently like a Geoff Marshall bin bag, to stop people from sitting there. After over 12 months, you'd have thought they could have done something more professional (a la Stagecoach and First) especially as every seat back had a covid notice.
I decamped at Queensferry and elected to catch the next bus to Chester. Rather than the direct Sapphire 10 along Sealand Road, it was the longer 11 via Broughton affording great views of the Airbus site and the Beluga aircraft. The Daf DB300 Gemini is approaching 10 years old and once again, I was impressed by the internal presentation and the quality of the seating. Much better than the First B9/e400 of a similar age that arrived for the Olympics. The headrests have Cymru Coastliner stitched in but again, no external branding and precious little internal promotion. I arrived back in Chester in time for a little sightseeing before catching the X30 back through to Warrington for a secondary loop of the day. This was of the same batch of MAN gas buses as earlier but had caught the Streetlite affliction of an emergency door handle rattling like a machine gun. It was a steady journey along back via Frodsham with good views afforded across the Mersey to the various petrochemical works but also Liverpool Cathedral in the distance. This route then dives in for a loop through Runcorn new town and past the 1970s era Arriva depot before, to my embarrassment, my first ever trip on the Runcorn Busway. That was quite fun though Runcorn Shopping City (aka Halton Lea) looks almost preserved in aspic as you travel through. Then back out and the chance for the MAN to stretch its legs to Warrington as we passed the local Warrington BT depot opposite some flats where the Crosville depot once stood.
Warrington Interchange is very nearly everything that you want in a modern bus station. It's large enough (nearly) and provides a central waiting area. It's close to Warrington Central though the signage could be better. I was also impressed by the state of the Warrington fleet with very few in the faded red and cream, with most looking smart in the Best Impressions designed livery. I've been to Warrington many times, had nights out there, but have never been there by bus! Some more observations, and again would appreciate some local knowledge. Arriva used to have a depot off Winwick Road, successor to the Crosville operations and the commercial bus war they had with WBT. Perhaps there have been some route swaps or whatever but.... does Arriva have a smaller presence in the town these days? It feels it might do but I don't know. Also, the 40 minute frequency on the 329 (and seen elsewhere on the network)... is that some temporary Covid timetable as it seems very odd for what should be a busy route? It was time for a Pulsar. It's a DAF, it's perfectly fine and functional, not as good as others, a bit cheaper and hasn't really moved on....so almost a machine that embodies Arriva! I actually quite like them and it was a surprisingly scenic run from Warrington out to Parr before it being more urban into St Helens, the town that still seems more Lancashire than Liverpool.
However, St Helens was the place that really did sum up the travails of Arriva in terms of new vehicles. The fleet is not bad with a mix of Pulsars, Solos and e400s and the odd Cadet. Nothing that old but crucially nothing that new. A large batch of 64 plate e400s are employed on trunk routes, such as the 10/10A to Liverpool but they are now looking less impressive against the mmcs that Stagecoach employ on the same route. The panic button doesn't need to be hit but the signs are there of a lack of investment. In fact, the only modern vehicle was a solitary Arriva Click Sprinter, now used (I think) on crew ferry work; incidentally, I notice that Runcorn depot has a fleet of vans from Enterprise on that work! It was time for another Pulsar, employed on the 89 to the Airport. Not certain if that had ever had branded fleet but surprised there is no promotion on that basis. We headed down to Prescot where I absentmindedly missed the stop I needed, so I rang the bell.... nothing. None of the bells at the rear worked so it was only some distance out of town where I could get the bus to stop!! It was a long and brisk walk/run back into Prescot where I discovered the bus station is partially closed so was hunting around to locate my stop. My 61 to Runcorn was approaching but fortunately, the lady driver saw my panicked face and stopped to let me on. She must've had a sixth sense.
So it was another gas bus but from the earlier batch (no USBs) allocated to Runcorn depot for the 61; another route working on a 40 min headway (Covid?). Now, a word of warning to prospective travellers... there are plenty of good bus services with great scenery and some, like the 329, are surprisingly engaging. The 61 is a turgid grind around everywhere through nondescript suburbs and industrial wastelands. It must rank as one of the most boring routes going - not one for sightseeing. I was on for the duration or so I thought. We reached Runcorn old town bus station where we were encouraged to change onto another service as the 61 had an unscheduled 10 minute wait so I rang down the bus station to the waiting 110 (another Pulsar) headed for Murdishaw but allowing me to get to Shopping City (Halton Lea North). Unfortunately, the X30 knocks off early so the final bus of the day necessitated a £2.60 fare courtesy of Stagecoach's service 2 to Frodsham. An e300, it wore the new livery (!) and internally, it had a plethora of adverts for anyone and everyone but Stagecoach seemingly. When you see First improving (more in some places than others) and the good things done by Go Ahead and Transdev, it's sad to see two major corporates appearing to be disappearing up their corporate backsides in this way when the focus should be, more than ever, on the customer.
Overall, I think Arriva's NW, Cymru and Murkeyside subsidiaries are amongst the better fleets. The fleet is generally well presented and they're punctual and well driven. The £6 day ticket is indecently cheap. The investment has been there in the past and that is evident. However, the lack of investment will soon catch up with Arriva and as for the marketing, it's really not very good. Let's hope that DB finally get off the pot, as it were, and perhaps then Arriva can at least begin to sort its issues out. As always, hope you enjoyed this travelogue; it was certainly good seeing places by bus that I'd only done so by car, or hadn't bussed to for many years.
I also have a trip to report on Arriva. Now this might come as a surprise but I am about to write something largely positive about Arriva North East….
I wasn’t particularly well disposed to them after my last trip as they never even had the courtesy to reply when I left something on a bus in June, even though on the online form I specified exactly which bus I left it on and where it would end up at the end of the day (not a given on the X12), but nothing. And their timetable website remains appalling beyond belief - but enough of the negatives.
Last Friday, in the heat, I did a trip starting and finishing in Darlington. I headed east on the first X66 of the morning to Middlesbrough. After that I took 4 buses on the X4 to get to Whitby, breaking my journey at Redcar (30 mins), Saltburn (60 mins) and Staithes (60 mins). It was high tide at Redcar so no beach at all and 30 minutes was enough to see the town centre although there is a collection of ancient tractors, presumably still used occasionally, at various places on the promenade.
In contrast both Saltburn-by-the-Sea and Staithes are delightful. Saltburn is a charming Victorian seaside town with a quaint pier. It even has a funicular up and down the cliff to the pier although it is not operating this year. It isn’t far to walk down but it is quite a climb back up! Also more vintage tractors parked up close by. I needed the full hour to see the town although this did include a coffee and doughnut at a takeway by the pier.
Staithes is quite different but also lovely. It is a 10 minute walk down to the village from the bus stop and at least 15 minutes back up but for this effort you get a gorgeous village right on the coast. The car park is before the walk down so the centre is largely car-free too. Still sufficiently early in the day, a working day but already pretty warm, for it not to be too busy.
And so on to Whitby, which I love, but by now it was almost lunchtime and the town was heaving. What it would have been like at the weekend the mind boggles. Very little social distancing going on. The swing bridge was raised as I arrived with a large crowd waiting for it to be lowered. I had an hour here so I wandered round the west side of the estuary and briefly over to the east side but on this occasion did not climb to the abbey and ruins.
Then back west on the X93 to Guisborough, half an hour there (pleasant but nothing spectacular) and on to Middlesbrough on the 5. I had intended to return to Darlington via Sedgefield but there had been a very serious accident the night before on the A1(M) just south of Durham and the road was still closed so I reckoned the X12 and X21 would be badly disrupted. So instead I spent half an hour in Stockton and then back to Darlington to drive home.
So the buses, all Arriva. A Scania Omnicity on the X66, which was a great choice for the flat out run on the A66, powerful, probably not speed limited, 15 years old but gave a very spirited ride. Of my four buses on the X4 three were Street**ites and were all rattly and pretty slow. The other was a Pulsar. All had USB connectors, only one of them worked – the Pulsar! The X93 was a decker, the 5 another Streetlite, the two X66s back to Darlington a Streetlite to Stockton and a Pulsar back to Darlington. The Pulsar was very capable but didn’t have the same atmosphere as the Scania on the fast A66.
So why the praise? Well, first of all, all of my buses were on time, properly on time, not even a couple of minutes late. Everything showed up accurately on BusTimes so I knew exactly what was happening. Then the X93. I presented myself at Whitby to get the 12.58 to Middlesbrough and it was clear that the 12.36 to Scarborough hadn’t turned up. Looking at BusTimes it had got quite delayed on the way to Middlesbrough and very delayed on the way back. The reason became clear as we headed across the moors, there were some roadworks on the A171 causing long and increasing queues eastbound as the good weather encouraged people onto the roads to head for Whitby and beyond. We were scarcely held up at all heading west but while we were waiting here the eastbound X93 came through nearly an hour late. Then after we passed the roadworks the next X93 was just joining the back of the queue, this would be half an hour late at Whitby.
So what did Arriva do at this potential disruption of the service? Well nothing was going to run the 12.36 to Scarborough but the 13.06 X94, fortunately a decker (only two of four X94s were), came round to the stand in good time to take on the long queue for Scarborough. Then the 12.36, arriving an hour late at Whitby, ran instead on the 13.36 to Scarborough, on time. And the 13.36, arriving half an hour late, appears to have run straight to Robin Hood’s Bay to pick up passengers heading back north and take over the timings of the original 12.36. A very sensible solution. Later runs didn’t seem to get as delayed, maybe they finished the road works or the traffic volume decreased.
I would like to have gone on one of the Temsa Avenues, all of which are allocated to Redcar and run the local routes there but not usually the X4. They seemed well presented and have ‘toilet box’ style engine compartments which I haven’t seen since the B7Ls. I know they were a ‘budget’ choice but they look OK and are now 11 years old; as I write 24 of 27 are out on the road which isn’t bad. Also a MAN EcoCity from Darlington would be interesting (OK not as interesting as Darlington single-deckers of say 40-50 years ago….). But the fleet is beginning to age, the Redcar-based Streetlites look careworn and there has been no investment anywhere for a few years now.
But not really faulting Arriva on the day at all. The only delay outside their control and well handled. And all for £8.50. Despite Covid and self-isolation nothing I could see was cancelled for staff reasons, unlike several shops and restaurants. I thought the loadings were reasonable on all my journeys, particularly the X4 and X93 around the middle of the day – plenty of people out for the day in the sunshine and clearly actual holidaymakers using the bus.
I wasn’t particularly well disposed to them after my last trip as they never even had the courtesy to reply when I left something on a bus in June, even though on the online form I specified exactly which bus I left it on and where it would end up at the end of the day (not a given on the X12), but nothing. And their timetable website remains appalling beyond belief - but enough of the negatives.
Last Friday, in the heat, I did a trip starting and finishing in Darlington. I headed east on the first X66 of the morning to Middlesbrough. After that I took 4 buses on the X4 to get to Whitby, breaking my journey at Redcar (30 mins), Saltburn (60 mins) and Staithes (60 mins). It was high tide at Redcar so no beach at all and 30 minutes was enough to see the town centre although there is a collection of ancient tractors, presumably still used occasionally, at various places on the promenade.
In contrast both Saltburn-by-the-Sea and Staithes are delightful. Saltburn is a charming Victorian seaside town with a quaint pier. It even has a funicular up and down the cliff to the pier although it is not operating this year. It isn’t far to walk down but it is quite a climb back up! Also more vintage tractors parked up close by. I needed the full hour to see the town although this did include a coffee and doughnut at a takeway by the pier.
Staithes is quite different but also lovely. It is a 10 minute walk down to the village from the bus stop and at least 15 minutes back up but for this effort you get a gorgeous village right on the coast. The car park is before the walk down so the centre is largely car-free too. Still sufficiently early in the day, a working day but already pretty warm, for it not to be too busy.
And so on to Whitby, which I love, but by now it was almost lunchtime and the town was heaving. What it would have been like at the weekend the mind boggles. Very little social distancing going on. The swing bridge was raised as I arrived with a large crowd waiting for it to be lowered. I had an hour here so I wandered round the west side of the estuary and briefly over to the east side but on this occasion did not climb to the abbey and ruins.
Then back west on the X93 to Guisborough, half an hour there (pleasant but nothing spectacular) and on to Middlesbrough on the 5. I had intended to return to Darlington via Sedgefield but there had been a very serious accident the night before on the A1(M) just south of Durham and the road was still closed so I reckoned the X12 and X21 would be badly disrupted. So instead I spent half an hour in Stockton and then back to Darlington to drive home.
So the buses, all Arriva. A Scania Omnicity on the X66, which was a great choice for the flat out run on the A66, powerful, probably not speed limited, 15 years old but gave a very spirited ride. Of my four buses on the X4 three were Street**ites and were all rattly and pretty slow. The other was a Pulsar. All had USB connectors, only one of them worked – the Pulsar! The X93 was a decker, the 5 another Streetlite, the two X66s back to Darlington a Streetlite to Stockton and a Pulsar back to Darlington. The Pulsar was very capable but didn’t have the same atmosphere as the Scania on the fast A66.
So why the praise? Well, first of all, all of my buses were on time, properly on time, not even a couple of minutes late. Everything showed up accurately on BusTimes so I knew exactly what was happening. Then the X93. I presented myself at Whitby to get the 12.58 to Middlesbrough and it was clear that the 12.36 to Scarborough hadn’t turned up. Looking at BusTimes it had got quite delayed on the way to Middlesbrough and very delayed on the way back. The reason became clear as we headed across the moors, there were some roadworks on the A171 causing long and increasing queues eastbound as the good weather encouraged people onto the roads to head for Whitby and beyond. We were scarcely held up at all heading west but while we were waiting here the eastbound X93 came through nearly an hour late. Then after we passed the roadworks the next X93 was just joining the back of the queue, this would be half an hour late at Whitby.
So what did Arriva do at this potential disruption of the service? Well nothing was going to run the 12.36 to Scarborough but the 13.06 X94, fortunately a decker (only two of four X94s were), came round to the stand in good time to take on the long queue for Scarborough. Then the 12.36, arriving an hour late at Whitby, ran instead on the 13.36 to Scarborough, on time. And the 13.36, arriving half an hour late, appears to have run straight to Robin Hood’s Bay to pick up passengers heading back north and take over the timings of the original 12.36. A very sensible solution. Later runs didn’t seem to get as delayed, maybe they finished the road works or the traffic volume decreased.
I would like to have gone on one of the Temsa Avenues, all of which are allocated to Redcar and run the local routes there but not usually the X4. They seemed well presented and have ‘toilet box’ style engine compartments which I haven’t seen since the B7Ls. I know they were a ‘budget’ choice but they look OK and are now 11 years old; as I write 24 of 27 are out on the road which isn’t bad. Also a MAN EcoCity from Darlington would be interesting (OK not as interesting as Darlington single-deckers of say 40-50 years ago….). But the fleet is beginning to age, the Redcar-based Streetlites look careworn and there has been no investment anywhere for a few years now.
But not really faulting Arriva on the day at all. The only delay outside their control and well handled. And all for £8.50. Despite Covid and self-isolation nothing I could see was cancelled for staff reasons, unlike several shops and restaurants. I thought the loadings were reasonable on all my journeys, particularly the X4 and X93 around the middle of the day – plenty of people out for the day in the sunshine and clearly actual holidaymakers using the bus.
markymark2000
On Moderation
The coffee shop opens when and as it pleases, overly expensive and non sensical so no one ever went in there. I used to go in there with a mate and the quality went down every single time. One of those sorts of places who would scream artizan to justify painfully high prices. Awful cafe, needs someone with half a braincell to take it on. Opened at like half 9, shut by 4 and yet complained about low custom (missing the whole commuter and busy market times, too high prices for any kids to justify to/from school etc.
Apparently they are going to reopen shortly but not sure. I hope they don't. One of few businesses that I hope fail.
Arriva don't want to serve Chester Interchange on the distance routes mainly because of the departure charges. They even went through a stage of stopping the buses further up at Delamere Street and making them drive past the bus station, not stopping. Slowly but surely, they have given in to stopping but now due to the roadworks meaning the Clockwise Chester scheme is in place, the 4/X4 stop both ways (previously only stopped going to Mold, not towards the train station) and the 1 now only stops set down only, if you have a nice driver. The 1 only stops towards the bus station, not towards Wrexham.
Having 3 route 1s is quite funny. Certainly confusing for non locals but I think each one has history now and no one wants to change things.
As for the Eclipses, it's easy to crisize them for their age but they are very good buses, like new in some cases. Compared to some other buses of a similar age or even newer, the Eclipses are excellent vehicles.
Wrexham local routes are a bit of a free for all allocation wise. The 27s can have Solos, Solo SRs, E200s. Bit of a mix.
Mold is a right laugh. These bus stops were only installed a few months ago as well. Flintshire is dismal with their timetables. Infact, at Queensferry Station Road (A key stop) has timetables up which are over 5 years old still quoting GHA routes. Flintshire Council is dismal with public transport, their team should be disbanded.
As for Broughton depot, it is a bit of a free for all on the Mold/Broughton routes. Blacons and the 10/10As have a consistent allocation but even they can vary. The depot may be open but it's not in as good of a place as it was a few years ago.
Mold isn't really at too much of a loss because of GHA, it's mainly due to Flintshires transport team with not a clue what they are doing. Cutting very popular routes while keeping funding routes which don't carry people. An insistance on not mixing school kids and normal passengers. Not giving a toss generally about local residents. Very corrupt council. All take, take, take and not much give.
Depends who it needs to be large enough for. Passengers, it's great. For bus drivers, less so. Too many buses, stands can be too over booked, bus dumping and whatever else. It's not the best bus station in the world for operations.
The 329 and 360 are Covid related but I don't think they will be temporary, I believe it is the intention to keep these as they are. The 329 I think is in relation to the competition from Link Network, Arriva couldn't sustain the frequency and as the 329 and 360 interwork, the 360 kind of came down too. The 360 and 329 have limited scope to The 329 should be busy but isn't as busy as you may think. It fluctuates quite a lot. One day can be busy, the next quite empty. Burtonwood isn't that busy anymore, I think it was but as the bus network there has proven in the past year or so, it's not as good as it once was.
Both St Helens and Warrington are both quite car centric areas still and people in Warrington especially have quite a dislike to using the bus because of Warringtons Own Buses fares.
The 61 is on a 40 minute headway due to viability. Arriva wanted to use as few buses as possible on the 61 as it's a bit of a marginal route so they ran half hourly from Runcorn to Broadgreen. Merseytravel then asked (funded? Not sure) for it to be extended into the city as per Halton Transports route. The city is quite poor for punctuality and Arriva wanted to do it using as few buses as possible so doing a 40 minute frequency seemed the best thing to do to keep resources low on the already marginal route.
The 61 by and large isn't meant for distance route. It does go here, there and everywhere. The difficulty is, there isn't really another route which could be taken without a huge network revamp and annoying a lot of people. It's a very good link up route between the towns and hospitals.
£6 isn't as bad if you are doing as much travelling as you did however that same £6 ticket is for people going from Hoole in Chester to Pulford. For shorter distances, it's an absolute rip off and passengers will tell you as much. It's only decent value if you make the most of it.
darloscott
Member
Those roadworks on the A171 have been causing mayhem for a good 3 months now and can cause delays of 20-30 minutes at times. Thankfully they’re just about finished and should be done by the end of this week.
Having worked for North East, leaving around 5 years ago it’s such a shame to see how far it’s fallen over this time. It’s all part of a wider issue of course but there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel. Having said that the depots (some of them at least) do their best with the hand they’re dealt. Stockton & Redcar (& satellite Whitby) seem to be the best two in NE at the moment.
The Winsford/Macclesfield depot operations are poor (newest buses 17 plate Mellor Stratas, ex Welsh e400 buses, which still have dual language liveries and internal stickers, used on the 84 Crewe to Chester, and occasionally the 38 Crewe to Macclesfield (although recent travel have mainly been Pulsars which are Sapphire standard, which were on the 130 Macclesfield to Manchester.
Evening/Sunday services are poor/non existent.
Evening/Sunday services are poor/non existent.
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cnjb8
Established Member
Fleet wise that sounds alright for Arriva!
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Thank you for the clarification and insights. I did suspect that the 1 bypassing the Bus Interchange might have been something related to departure charges but then again, it's not that you don't see other Arriva routes in there. As for the 3 No1s.... It's just unnecessary potential confusion. The coffee shop.... I guess they have rents to pay but seems an odd way of going about things in charging over the odds.
In terms of Mold, I wasn't bemoaning the loss of GHA. Just that Mold had its own Crosville depot, which was merged into Devaway's Bretton ops when Broughton opened, and then got a slice of the Blacon action. Yet it seems that the operation is pretty thin and wondered if that they lost a chunk to GHA back in the day, which is now with other people. Oh, and TownLynx now running the Flint route.
TBF, I did notice the issue of insufficient layover spaces/parking with a couple of vehicles parked up the road. Didn't see any issues with stand congestion but will bow to your knowledge. BTW, the 329 used to be every 15 minutes about 20-25 years ago. Whilst I appreciate that much has changed in that time, that's quite a drop and I'm never convinced that 40 minute frequencies are a good thing. It really is shaping the foot to fit the boot, and I think it's counterproductive. Same with the 61 - I understand the thinking but it just adds complexity to travellers. If they want to reduce the resources, perhaps just formalise what happened to me.... truncate it in Runcorn old town and have it connect with the 110 for Halton Lea? Or stop it short in Prescot and funnel folks onto the 10/10A. Also, I know it's not designed for an inter-urban route and that's fine. Many a route wanders and meanders and that can be a plus point as you get to see places etc. However, the 61 is just plain dull.
And yes, £6 is indecently cheap for that much travelling, and I definitely accept that I got value out of mine
I assume you picked Pulford as it was just outside the boundary for the Chester Plus ticket, which is a more reasonable £4.60. Wherever there's a boundary, someone will be on the wrong side of it (and we all know the issue of high single fares anyway).Thanks for the info - it is appreciated
Interesting travelogue on routes that I know well from the past, when they were the 255/6 (coast) and 257/8 (moors) though not been on them for a while. TBF to Arriva, they have done a very good job with those routes over many years and still do. Perhaps that's the point - you have good people on the ground having to make the best of what they have. I think everyone knows (or should do) how lovely those two routes are, and the B9s on the X93/4 are perhaps the best machines they've had on there. Not so certain about the Streetlites on there. They aren't the best. That said, these are some of the machines that have transported me on those routes so they aren't the worst either:
1988-02-16 NWT 707M Leyland National 1425 of United, Carlin How
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The Temsa Avenues (aka Turkish Alights) are actually relatively rudimentary so they're pretty reliable if not the most comfortable for longer journeys, hence why they stay more local. Arriva NE hasn't had anything new for 3.5 years (since the Sapphire Streetlites on the 1/5 in Darlington). The Omnicities were great buses and they're still decent but they're 16 years old now. They've been hammered and for use on a major, fast route like the X66/67 - they've done well but some money needs spending, if only to put something onto routes like the 6/7 in Durham to release Pulsars for the X66/67.
You do wonder what Go Ahead or Transdev (or even First) would do to improve the Whitby routes in terms of marketing etc (though you don't have to look too far to see Transdev in Whitby)
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markymark2000
On Moderation
The Arriva thing is a long standing battle. Slowly things moved in and out. When Clockwise Chester isn't on, the 3 runs to Foregate Street and doesn't serve the bus station and the 12 for a while before it got withdrawn also terminated at Foregate Street, not the bus station. The 4/X4 didn't start serving the bus station until a year or so after it was built, instead running buses past not serving. Now with the roadworks, they serve both ways though when the works are finished, it will go back to being a circular calling at the top of Foregate Street then straight to the station (anyone for the bus station will have to wait out the layover and stay on the bus). 84 served the bus station from day 1 I think as it moved from the old bus station but the 82 which Arriva dropped, never, ever served the bus interchange, always Foregate Street to avoid the fees.
There was even a stint where the 11s didn't stop at the interchange and went to the train station like the 4/X4. They really don't want to pay departure fees and will do all they can to avoid stopping at the interchange.
That bus station is a free for all with parking. Absolutely mental. It was worse when Fairbrothers were in operation as that was another.... 15 buses per hour and Link Network used to run more which was another 4 buses per hour so it was busier.
40 min frequencies, I agree with you on. The only exception is where it has to be done because of round trip times on little town circulars.
Your point on the 61 makes sense however the issue then is driver changes with it being ran by Runcorn, it then means more shunt cars which increases the cost so it's easier to run to the depot but then, you might as well run to Halton Lea else you lose passengers. Ideally I would say cut it at Widnes but then it has to move depots and the Merseyside depots have higher wages I think so you.
Funnelling people onto the 10/10A doesn't work because there is then no bus from Prescot to Widnes or if you mean the other way, you lose a lot of links to Huyton which Merseytravel would then fund.
Pulford may have been a harsh put but the key point is that because of the Wales ticket borders not including Chester local routes (which makes sense for the 'Wales' boundary but when the local buses are ran by Wales and the links to the North West are 2, hourly routes which don't have very good operating hours. The local network is closer to Arriva Wales but their fares are created to exploit this). I could use Chester to Helsby as an example, that is £5.50. Not much cheaper but significantly less distance than you did. Or maybe even Chester to Buckley or Mold which is only 30p cheaper than your ticket at £5.70.And yes, £6 is indecently cheap for that much travelling, and I definitely accept that I got value out of mine
Thanks for the info - it is appreciated
There are plenty of example where the value for money depends on if you do a return trip or a full bus spotters day. You got your moneys worth but many locals do not feel that way because of the stupidly high price of fares for very local travel.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I guess that it's Arriva Cymru with the beef, whilst North West don't seem to have the same issue running in from Runcorn/Crewe
I think wherever they do it, they need a shunt car. That won't change. I was suggesting either a Halton Lea to Prescot service to feed into the 10/10A and equally, depending on the traffic for Huyton, it could equally feed into the 89. Or failing that, just run it to Huyton.
The alternative is run it to Runcorn to Liverpool and let the 110 to the Halton Lea to Runcorn bit.
Whatever the solution is, intuitively, a 40 or 45 min headway is just not the solution.
Sadly, there will always be those places on the wrong side of any boundary and, of course, those stupidly high fares are not just confined to Arriva but sadly a consequence of wider issues.
Planesandtrain
Member
- Joined
- 10 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 74
I must add my reports on a recent trip on their shires home counties operation. I was using multiple operators so picked out the Arriva operated journeys.
Arriva 300 from High Wycombe to Aylesbury, A 2004 Wrightbus bodied DAF DB250- very odd that an interurban corridor like this sustains two operators, Redline at a 20 min frequency with their 130 service and Arriva at 15 mins on the 300 plus extra journeys on the X30 between Princes Risborough and High Wycombe. Consequently, I was the only passenger on this double-decker, which made some rather interesting noises....
Arriva 150 from Aylesbury to Leighton Buzzard (continues on to Milton Keynes)- A rather poorly sounding 2008 Mercedes Citaro, Red Rose also competes on this corridor with their 101 service. I note that the 150 timetable is very padded, driving 20mph below the speed limit and still ran at least 3 mins early. The interior was in poor condition with duct tape being used for seat repairs.
Arriva F77 from Leighton Buzzard to Luton- this was a 2014 wright streetlight. Now not only was this bus making very interesting noises (grinding, screeching) but this bus route is meant to serve the Luton Dunstable busway. Unfortunately, the bus had no guidewheels, therefore, couldn't actually serve the busway resulting in the bus pulling into Luton 25 mins late. Not good. The driver also kerbed the bus on a number of occasions at one point mounting a roundabout taking out the last bit of green left in Luton.....
Overall very disappointing, lots of duct tape, panels being held on with weekly ticket holders, damaged panels.... only redeeming factor is that drivers attitudes appear to have improved with no challenging of the intalink explorer ticket.
Arriva 300 from High Wycombe to Aylesbury, A 2004 Wrightbus bodied DAF DB250- very odd that an interurban corridor like this sustains two operators, Redline at a 20 min frequency with their 130 service and Arriva at 15 mins on the 300 plus extra journeys on the X30 between Princes Risborough and High Wycombe. Consequently, I was the only passenger on this double-decker, which made some rather interesting noises....
Arriva 150 from Aylesbury to Leighton Buzzard (continues on to Milton Keynes)- A rather poorly sounding 2008 Mercedes Citaro, Red Rose also competes on this corridor with their 101 service. I note that the 150 timetable is very padded, driving 20mph below the speed limit and still ran at least 3 mins early. The interior was in poor condition with duct tape being used for seat repairs.
Arriva F77 from Leighton Buzzard to Luton- this was a 2014 wright streetlight. Now not only was this bus making very interesting noises (grinding, screeching) but this bus route is meant to serve the Luton Dunstable busway. Unfortunately, the bus had no guidewheels, therefore, couldn't actually serve the busway resulting in the bus pulling into Luton 25 mins late. Not good. The driver also kerbed the bus on a number of occasions at one point mounting a roundabout taking out the last bit of green left in Luton.....
Overall very disappointing, lots of duct tape, panels being held on with weekly ticket holders, damaged panels.... only redeeming factor is that drivers attitudes appear to have improved with no challenging of the intalink explorer ticket.
Regarding Stagecoach's forage into Arriva territory in Kent, there is now publicity for it. I've checked the fares - starting at 09:30, fare from Faversham to Maidstone is £4.20, Sittingbourne to Maidstone is £1.30 (return £2)!! The last part is in direct competition with Arriva's 334. I have no idea what their normal fare is but it certainly isn't £1.30! (How long they keep a £2 return, no idea.)
They are also offering free doughnut and coffee to publicise the route change. They mean business.
Publicity: Go further with route 3 | Stagecoach (stagecoachbus.com)
They are also offering free doughnut and coffee to publicise the route change. They mean business.
Publicity: Go further with route 3 | Stagecoach (stagecoachbus.com)
Blindtraveler
Established Member
Are they using anything halfway decent in terms of vehicles on it?
Starts Monday. X4 requires single deckers - supposed to be Enviro200 MMCs.
I have been on the Arriva website today and guess what - the ghastly useless timetables have gone! I haven't looked everywhere but where I have we now have proper usable timetables with parallel routes combined such as "4-4A-4B-4H-4R-4X-X4-Bangor-to-Holyhead-from-11-Apr-2021". These are in the relatively familiar old Arriva format and they seem to print sensibly too. OK there are still some serious oddities and non-linking of through journeys (eg North East X93/X94 -also some of the journeys are in the wrong order - the 19.13 from Whitby to Guisborough is shown after the 19.43!) but this is a big step forward. Most of them appear to be valid to Tuesday 26 October 2021, which seems a very odd day for them to end. Is the end of the world scheduled then or something? Some sense has been seen - two cheers for Arriva!
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
26th October is symbolic in the bus industry!
They've even decided that we don't need every single calling point along the way. And they are sufficiently organised to not only combine the Cranleigh 53/63 group, but also provide PDF timetables for both the period up to 7th August and from 8th August onwards (until the mysterious 26th October).
The only oddity I can see is the titling of the tables by the last line of the timetable (e.g. "Monday to Friday- Ewhurst The Glebe", but "Saturday- Horsham Bus Station" - it's the same destinations for both, just arranged differently).
Good to see some sanity prevailing.
The only oddity I can see is the titling of the tables by the last line of the timetable (e.g. "Monday to Friday- Ewhurst The Glebe", but "Saturday- Horsham Bus Station" - it's the same destinations for both, just arranged differently).
Good to see some sanity prevailing.
Indeed - 35 years! But I can't see why that should come in here!
More oddities - having looked somewhat randomly at the 5/5A in Leicester the timetable shows a journey at 06.34 from Thurnby Lodge to Leicester which has nothing in common whatsoever with any other journey on the 5 or 5A - different terminal point in Leicester. It looks like it is actually a 53, slots nicely between other journeys on this service. The journey does not appear on the BusTimes timetable either (nor on the 5!), but looking at the vehicle history clearly does run in practice, today it was Solo 2525, then going onto the 07.15. Weird!
Arriva have responded to this (via hastily constructed twitter, obviously):
(https://twitter.com/ArrivaKent/status/1420399275985494020/photo/1, image of the above with what looks to be Sheerness beach)
Llandudno
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Dec 2014
- Messages
- 2,199
Thank goodness for that!
I wonder how much they wasted on the incomprehensible wizzy woo website, no doubt designed and signed off by someone who never uses public transport
Incidentally, from perusing the X93/X94 timetable I see they are showing additional journeys between Whitby and Robin Hoods Bay roughly hourly in the morning and afternoon. This compares to running 3 buses an hour to Scarborough as they did previously. This has been the case for the last two weeks but there is no mention on the main Arriva website of this enhancement and they do not show on BusTimes. They appear to have run sporadically as, presumably, buses and drivers are available.
darloscott
Member
Yeah they've been given an extra double deck from Jesmond to help out in the summer to run these extra journeys, but I understand they've not ran every day due to driver issues (as per everyone else).
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X3 is (today) using the biofuel Enviro 400s from Unibus (not a long term solution)
X4 is Enviro 200 MMCs taken from the Thanet Loop. Needs single deckers for the Forbes Road rail bridge.
I would imagine they would want something reliable, it would be a problem if a vehicle breaks down.
(Source: Bus Times)
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