Arriva Rail North DOO

[Robertj21a]

As already pointed out, the Facebook post about fresh talks on dispatch is from last January, quite why someone decided to post it is rather confusing.

Lets be very clear, unfortunately is going to be a long process with the company not guaranteeing anything until the government alters the franchise agreement.

I doubt the government has any intention of altering the franchise agreement. Why should they ?

 

[Mathew S]

I doubt the government has any intention of altering the franchise agreement. Why should they ?

Indeed. Arriva must have known what they were getting themselves into when they signed it, will I imagine be the DfT point of view. That said, if RMT were to escalate their industrial action and it were to become massively disruptive then I think it's possible, just, that modification of the franchise agreement might become politically expedient.

 

[Carlisle]

That said if RMT were to escalate their industrial action and it were to become massively disruptive then I think it's possible, just, that modification of the franchise agreement might become politically expedient.

Those in charge should really be planning for such an event and making it clear they’re doing so, otherwise wouldn’t it just be far simpler to give up now, accept the Scotrail dea and allow yourselves to pretty much put your feet up for the rest of the franchise period. ?

 

[Andrew32]

It has been mentioned on another thread that northern will be the next toc to loose it's franchise

There's been told of this amongst staff since the start of the year.

It is rumoured that Arriva haven't asked for reimbursements from the government for losses incurred by industrial action as it would have to pay the government back if it throws in the franchise.

It's is rumoured that this will happen at the end of the financial year where they will tell the Dft that the franchise isn't deliverable due to delays in electrification and cascading of rolling stock from other tocs.

We will find out shortly if these rumours are true, we all know about railway rumours .

 

[Bletchleyite]

If so, the opportunities are growing to do something which would be just about the most politically popular (if un-Tory) move that could possibly be done with the railways.

Can anyone think what it is?

 

[Mathew S]

It has been mentioned on another thread that northern will be the next toc to loose it's franchise

There's been told of this amongst staff since the start of the year.

It is rumoured that Arriva haven't asked for reimbursements from the government for losses incurred by industrial action as it would have to pay the government back if it throws in the franchise.

It's is rumoured that this will happen at the end of the financial year where they will tell the Dft that the franchise isn't deliverable due to delays in electrification and cascading of rolling stock from other tocs.

We will find out shortly if these rumours are true, we all know about railway rumours .

Would you mind awfully linking to the thread or post where this is mentioned? It would be useful, especially if there's wider discussion.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

If so, the opportunities are growing to do something which would be just about the most politically popular (if un-Tory) move that could possibly be done with the railways.

Can anyone think what it is?

With the current minister who has just survived a reshuffle? I don't think so!

 

[PR1Berske]

If so, the opportunities are growing to do something which would be just about the most politically popular (if un-Tory) move that could possibly be done with the railways.

Can anyone think what it is?

Wishful thinking.

 

[pemma]

It has been mentioned on another thread that northern will be the next toc to loose it's franchise

There's been told of this amongst staff since the start of the year.

It is rumoured that Arriva haven't asked for reimbursements from the government for losses incurred by industrial action as it would have to pay the government back if it throws in the franchise.

It's is rumoured that this will happen at the end of the financial year where they will tell the Dft that the franchise isn't deliverable due to delays in electrification and cascading of rolling stock from other tocs.

We will find out shortly if these rumours are true, we all know about railway rumours .

I'm not sure Arriva management wanting to keep the option of handing back the franchise on the table means it's going to happen. Just like the RMT make demands which no TOC will ever accept and then finish up accepting something between what they originally demanded and what the TOC originally offered, Arriva would likely do the same with DfT and having the option of handing back the franchise could strengthen their position for re-negotiating the terms.

 

[gavin]

Arriva Rail North and Merseyrail will strike on March 3

@PA

#Breaking Workers on Arriva Rail North and Merseyrail will strike on March 3 in long-running dispute over the role of guards, the Rail, Maritime and Transport union says

 

[NorthernSpirit]

If so, the opportunities are growing to do something which would be just about the most politically popular (if un-Tory) move that could possibly be done with the railways.

Can anyone think what it is?

The slim chance of that happening is extremely remote, but it could happen only if half of the current franchisees decide to throw in the towel and call it a day.

 

[northernchris]

Saturday 3rd seems a bit of an unusual choice, are there any major events that day or is it more aimed at the managers having to work at the weekend?

 

[Ianigsy]

I suspect it's as much about keeping the dispute alive as anything else. They've usually gone for Grand National weekend, which is about six weeks afterwards this year. Personally if I were the RMT on Northern I'd be looking to strike the week that Blackpool North reopens to take the shine off the PR.

 

[uww11x]

Losing public empathy will all these strikes!

 

[WatcherZero]

A football match, Liverpool vs Newcastle I think.
Some rumours they want to strike on Ladies day this year.

 

[Mathew S]

A football match, Liverpool vs Newcastle I think.
Some rumours they want to strike on Ladies day this year.

Makes sense. I might not agree with the RMT on the reasons for the strike, but if you're going to do it might as well pick a day when it's going to have an impact.

 

[Kite159]

Makes sense. I might not agree with the RMT on the reasons for the strike, but if you're going to do it might as well pick a day when it's going to have an impact.

Probably little impact for those passengers in Newcastle getting to the station, but most will probably be using TPE services to reach Liverpool.

 

[Mathew S]

Probably little impact for those passengers in Newcastle getting to the station, but most will probably be using TPE services to reach Liverpool.

I was thinking more about the Ladies Day @ Aintree. And disruption at the Liverpool end for fans who usually use Northern/Merseyrail to get to Anfield.

 

[Overspeed110]

Losing public empathy will all these strikes!

Who is?
You?

From what I've heard from guards I see in various messrooms the vast majority of the public are supportive of the guards.

 

[Overspeed110]

A football match, Liverpool vs Newcastle I think.
Some rumours they want to strike on Ladies day this year.

They should definitely go for the Grand National.

Very surprised there's no comments from the usual 3or 4 anti trade union / anti guards militia, maybe they've finally realised how pathetic they sound keep coming back with the same old tired posts.

 

[pemma]

They should definitely go for the Grand National.

Why? Fewer tickets sold means fewer locals will be working at the Grand National.

When the RMT called a strike to coincide with the Conservative Party conference they failed to realise they actually did the Tory MPs and delegates a favour! Virgin Trains and taxis operated as usual so all the RMT achieved was making Piccadilly station quieter than usual and decreasing demand for taxis from those not attending the conference. Did Mick Cash seriously expect the likes of Paul Maynard and Esther McVey to jump on a Pacer in their constituency to get to Manchester?

 

[pemma]

From what I've heard from guards I see in various messrooms the vast majority of the public are supportive of the guards.

As someone said in the Merseyrail thread you obviously live in a bubble and know nothing about the real world. Most of the public don't understand what the dispute is about, they don't a realise 'driver only' train could have a driver plus a small army of CSAs on board. The few who properly understand realise it requires Grayling to do something and also realise Grayling won't cave in to union demands however many strikes the RMT call. Even Andy McDonald has hinted if Labour get in they won't stop planned DOO or reverse existing DOO, even if he has confirmed Labour won't authorise further DOO expansion.

 

[B&I]

It has been mentioned on another thread that northern will be the next toc to loose it's franchise

There's been told of this amongst staff since the start of the year.

It is rumoured that Arriva haven't asked for reimbursements from the government for losses incurred by industrial action as it would have to pay the government back if it throws in the franchise.

It's is rumoured that this will happen at the end of the financial year where they will tell the Dft that the franchise isn't deliverable due to delays in electrification and cascading of rolling stock from other tocs.

We will find out shortly if these rumours are true, we all know about railway rumours .

Interesting. If multiple franchises are collapsing, that means fhat either franchising is inherently unworkable, or that government policy in other areas is preventing it from working. Neither of those options casts the current clown squad in charge at the DfT in a good light.

 

[pemma]

Interesting. If multiple franchises are collapsing, that means fhat either franchising is inherently unworkable, or that government policy in other areas is preventing it from working. Neither of those options casts the current clown squad in charge at the DfT in a good light.

Unfortunately, a franchise which works using the current system means little investment for passengers. The old Northern franchise exceeded targets and was always part refunding subsides rather than asking for revenue support. However, for passengers that meant excess fare revenue was going to DfT instead of addressing under investment in rolling stock.

 

[pemma]

Northern's response

“We are still prepared to guarantee jobs and hold pay reviews for our 1,300 conductors until the end of our franchise in 2025, with the Government guaranteeing jobs beyond that if RMT ends its strike action. RMT has recently rejected our request to hold a fresh ballot of Northern conductors after nearly a year of strike action.

“We are concentrating our efforts on running as many services as possible on Saturday 3 March to keep our customers moving.”

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/n...mt-calling-strike-action-on-saturday-3-march1

 

[Mathew S]

They should definitely go for the Grand National.

Very surprised there's no comments from the usual 3or 4 anti trade union / anti guards militia, maybe they've finally realised how pathetic they sound keep coming back with the same old tired posts.

I'm not sure that many, if any, of the members of this forum could be described as anti-union or anti-guards. I can only speak for myself, I realise, however I am massively pro-union and hugely value the work of all staff, guards included, on our railways. I am quite capable of believing both of those things whilst also believing that this strike is politically motivated and unreasonable.

 

[pemma]

I'm not sure that many, if any, of the members of this forum could be described as anti-union or anti-guards. I can only speak for myself, I realise, however I am massively pro-union and hugely value the work of all staff, guards included, on our railways. I am quite capable of believing both of those things whilst also believing that this strike is politically motivated and unreasonable.

Indeed. Not that long ago I posted how some GMB members were getting fed up with the strikes and thinking the RMT were taking the mick. However, a couple of the RMT members who post on here refused to believe it as they seem to believe that every union member supports every strike without any exceptions.

 

[PR1Berske]

The issue with public perception is how the ordinary passenger responds. Not the RailUK poster, not the Socialist Party leaflet dropper, not the Guard with their RMT lapel pin, not the enthusiasts on the end of platform 4.

If Northern are doing their best to underline how jobs are secured until franchise end, and this message is getting through, the ordinary passenger will wonder why the RMT is so adamant about not believing them. If the ordinary passenger only sees guards in their cabs, and only gets their tickets checked by hiviz jackets at a gate line, they might wonder why the RMT is so adamant that a guard must be onboard at all times.

Passengers on many Northern, Merseyrail, services would be mistaken for thinking that guards only opened and closed doors as it is. The RMT seem to be ignorant to this

 

[pemma]

Passengers on many Northern, Merseyrail, services would be mistaken for thinking that guards only opened and closed doors as it is. The RMT seem to be ignorant to this

Indeed. I've lost count of the number of times a news report has asked passengers for their opinion and they give the impression that they think the process of removing guards from trains started years ago.

 

[nedchester]

Indeed. I've lost count of the number of times a news report has asked passengers for their opinion and they give the impression that they think the process of removing guards from trains started years ago.

It did.