Arriva to close Aylesbury and High Wycombe depots

[Mgameing123]

What routes run from Aylesbury Depot currently?

 

[GusB]

In order to avoid having the same issue being discussed in multiple places, posts have been moved here from the Arriva Beds etc. and Carousel Buses threads. If

Please remember to provide links to any sources that you refer to and make sure that you provide a relevant quote from that source.

 

[Mgameing123]

Local media have been reporting that First have their eye on some of the Wycombe routes too - doesn't seem like fertile ground for onroad competition, I assume someone will have to back down before July.

Do you have a news article that mentions it?

 

[A0wen]

Which depot operates the X4 and X6 Aylesbury-MK as those aren't listed as ending? Or is that operated by Aylesbury now (thought it was) but going to move to Wolverton?

Where are the Leighton Buzzard locals operated from, is there a depot there?

Arriva have an outstation at Leighton Buzzard. https://www.ukbuses.co.uk/fleet/amn.pdf

 

[RELL6L]

The closure of Aylesbury and High Wycombe is eminently predictable. A shame but the standard of service was so poor, due to the vehicles not the drivers or the timetable (although traffic doesn't help). So frequent to see buses broken down at the side of the road and long gaps between buses. Its not a lack of passengers either, plenty aboard most buses and plenty of school and college flows. Just poor management and lack of investment. I went on some routes only last week and reported on the trips thread, noting the competition on the Wycombe - Aylesbury and Oxford - Aylesbury corridors.

Good to see Go Ahead are ready to step up again as in Bournemouth and Southampton. I guess they'll take on many of the drivers, not sure if they have sufficient depot capacity and I don't imagine they will want any vehicles.

Sounds like the Oxford end will operate Oxford-Thame but this will leave Aylesbury-Thame via Haddenham (X7) and also High Wycombe - Princes Risborough via Naphill (X9) which will need to be covered. The X5 will be taken on by Hemel and the X4 and X6 are run from Milton Keynes. I can see Redline (or other parts of the Red group) covering these, either as variations to what they already run or as enhancements.

 

[buslad1988]

Wasn’t it only a few months ago Arriva simplified the Wycombe network with some significant changes to improve reliability etc?

I’m sure I recall one of the local managers actually commenting on here the reasons and thought processes behind the changes stating customer feedback.

Wasn’t there also going to an influx of East Lancs Olympuses due to their better spec’d interiors for the X routes?

Just seems strange to go to all this effort to pack it all in not long after - they clearly thought they had a future in this area until very recently.

 

[Mgameing123]

The closure of Aylesbury and High Wycombe is eminently predictable. A shame but the standard of service was so poor, due to the vehicles not the drivers or the timetable (although traffic doesn't help). So frequent to see buses broken down at the side of the road and long gaps between buses. Its not a lack of passengers either, plenty aboard most buses and plenty of school and college flows. Just poor management and lack of investment. I went on some routes only last week and reported on the trips thread, noting the competition on the Wycombe - Aylesbury and Oxford - Aylesbury corridors.

Good to see Go Ahead are ready to step up again as in Bournemouth and Southampton. I guess they'll take on many of the drivers, not sure if they have sufficient depot capacity and I don't imagine they will want any vehicles.

Sounds like the Oxford end will operate Oxford-Thame but this will leave Aylesbury-Thame via Haddenham (X7) and also High Wycombe - Princes Risborough via Naphill (X9) which will need to be covered. The X5 will be taken on by Hemel and the X4 and X6 are run from Milton Keynes. I can see Redline (or other parts of the Red group) covering these, either as variations to what they already run or as enhancements.

130 would most likely run a better service. It's a shame that they have to close High Wycombe depot. Carousel as the only operator is a terrible outcome.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sounds like the Oxford end will operate Oxford-Thame but this will leave Aylesbury-Thame via Haddenham (X7) and also High Wycombe - Princes Risborough via Naphill (X9) which will need to be covered. The X5 will be taken on by Hemel and the X4 and X6 are run from Milton Keynes. I can see Redline (or other parts of the Red group) covering these, either as variations to what they already run or as enhancements.

Thanks. Does make me wonder what future Milton Keynes depot has too. It's not a great operation as I've said many times and loadings would suggest it probably doesn't make a fortune (standing passengers are basically unknown - even at busy times loadings are only typically about 2/3 at best, apart from maybe one journey each way on each route), I've sometimes wondered what the parallel universe where Stagecoach hadn't been forced to sell up might have looked like! On the other hand, "Red *" taking it over probably wouldn't be an improvement.

 

[greenline712]

Which depot operates the X4 and X6 Aylesbury-MK as those aren't listed as ending? Or is that operated by Aylesbury now (thought it was) but going to move to Wolverton?

Where are the Leighton Buzzard locals operated from, is there a depot there?

Routes X4 and X6 are run from Milton Keynes Garage. Aylesbury now just run the X5 (Hemel Hempstead . . . to move there); X7 (Oxford) and X9 (Wycombe). X7 (X8) and X9 are to have a frequency reduction from 2 June 2024.

The Leighton Buzzard locals are run from an outstation in LB . . . according to UKBuses.co.uk, it's at: Avery's Garage, Gossard Park, Grovebury Road, LU7 4SQ. It's regarded as part of Luton Garage.

 

[Mgameing123]

Thanks. Does make me wonder what future Milton Keynes depot has too. It's not a great operation as I've said many times and loadings would suggest it probably doesn't make a fortune (standing passengers are basically unknown - even at busy times loadings are only typically about 2/3 at best, apart from maybe one journey each way on each route), I've sometimes wondered what the parallel universe where Stagecoach hadn't been forced to sell up might have looked like! On the other hand, "Red *" taking it over probably wouldn't be an improvement.

Honestly does Arriva even have a future? It's just a business in managed decline.

 

[cnjb8]

Honestly does Arriva even have a future? It's just a business in managed decline.

I think the new owners are just trimming out the unprofitable bits of Arriva, similar to First in 2012. They have after all placed an order for the Merseyside operations so they clearly still have hope for some parts of the business

 

[Mgameing123]

I think the new owners are just trimming out the unprofitable bits of Arriva, similar to First in 2012. They have after all placed an order for the Merseyside operations so they clearly still have hope for some parts of the business

Just seems like they are cutting out a lot of operations. It really looks like that Arriva High Wycombe could easily turn a profit if they actually decided to invest in it for once.

 

[K4016td]

It was to be expected at some point - however with the appaling level of service that Arriva had provided over the last few years I don't think any passengers will miss them. My teenage sister currently studies in Henley College and the amount of times 800/850 doesn't turn up, fails to take all waiting passengers en route due to running morning peak journeys with a single decker or that the bus breaks down mid route is astonishing, not mentioning that almost always it is late. If all services in High Wycombe look like this, maybe it is actually better that they will cease their operations.

Also good news is that it is not a short notice emergency, couple of months is plenty of time to prepare and hopefully Carousel will also take the majority of the employees, perhaps they will take the garage - as I don't think their current premises will allow them to store and service so many vehicles. And whilst monopoly might not always be great, I think for the town that is a size of Wycombe it is better to have one operator with one ticket valid across multiple routes, especially if the operators don't accept each others season tickets.

 

[cnjb8]

Just seems like they are cutting out a lot of operations. It really looks like that Arriva High Wycombe could easily turn a profit if they actually decided to invest in it for once.

Yeah, unfortunately Arriva don't seem very long-term minded

 

[Andy Pacer]

The Leighton Buzzard locals are run from an outstation in LB . . . according to UKBuses.co.uk, it's at: Avery's Garage, Gossard Park, Grovebury Road, LU7 4SQ. It's regarded as part of Luton Garage.

Actually an outstation of Milton Keynes, not Luton.

 

[Mgameing123]

It was to be expected at some point - however with the appaling level of service that Arriva had provided over the last few years I don't think any passengers will miss them. My teenage sister currently studies in Henley College and the amount of times 800/850 doesn't turn up, fails to take all waiting passengers en route due to running morning peak journeys with a single decker or that the bus breaks down mid route is astonishing, not mentioning that almost always it is late. If all services in High Wycombe look like this, maybe it is actually better that they will cease their operations.

Also good news is that it is not a short notice emergency, couple of months is plenty of time to prepare and hopefully Carousel will also take the majority of the employees, perhaps they will take the garage - as I don't think their current premises will allow them to store and service so many vehicles. And whilst monopoly might not always be great, I think for the town that is a size of Wycombe it is better to have one operator with one ticket valid across multiple routes, especially if the operators don't accept each others season tickets.

Wycombe Smartzone tickets do the job.

 

[Wokingham]

Who will run the Reading/Wycombe routes?

 

[A0wen]

Routes X4 and X6 are run from Milton Keynes Garage. Aylesbury now just run the X5 (Hemel Hempstead . . . to move there); X7 (Oxford) and X9 (Wycombe). X7 (X8) and X9 are to have a frequency reduction from 2 June 2024.

The X5 passing back to Hemel is just a return to where things were 30 years ago ! The X5 is a recent 'renumber' of what was the 500/501 ? which were the long standing Aylesbury - Hemel - Watford service which London Country ran after they withdrew the Green Line 706, IIRC in the late 1970s ?

When London Country was split up they passed to London Country North West (LCNW) and were primarily run from Hemel, it was only with the takeover of LCNW by Luton and District (L&D) that some of the work was allocated to L&D's Aylesbury depot.

 

[K4016td]

Wycombe Smartzone tickets do the job.

Ah, thanks for reminding that Wycombe indeed has it - but nevertheless lack of competition isn't always that bad, locally Bracknell has had been a victim of a bus war recently (well, almost 10 years now but still) but things seemed to turn to better - fleet is more modern that it used to be in First's era.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Go-Ahead have already announced they are stepping in to provide partial replacement for some of the services, although their version of what was previously (and is again) the 280 will seemingly run no further east than Thame.

https://www.oxfordbus.co.uk/oxford-...AKsWukpte3WVTp3GdBGGg0V8iDd8hR_a7QD8Xnb2FngYK

We are pleased to announce that we will be stepping in to assist Arriva customers with the launch of a new 280 service between Oxford, Headington, Wheatley and Thame. This service will operate every 30 minutes and will commence operation from 1st July 2024. The timetable for the new service will be posted here as soon as possible.

In addition, our sister company Carousel Buses will be stepping in to provide replacement services on routes in the High Wycombe area. Carousel is taking over route 4 from 19th May 2024, and has also announced that it provide replacement services on current Arriva routes 2, 3, 5/5a, 6/6a, 7/7a, 10, 11, 12, 13, 800, 850 and X80, from the date of the closure.

\

 

[Andy Pacer]

Go-Ahead have already announced they are stepping in to provide partial replacement for some of the services, although their version of what was previously (and is again) the 280 will seemingly run no further east than Thame.









\

Mentioned in post #7 upthread

Interesting re-use of the 280 service number having been very long established before they were recently changed.

 

[168lover]

Honestly not surprised one bit, as a life long Wycombe resident, I've seen Arriva go downhill massively over the past few years becoming more and more unreliable with worn out buses. In the past year or so Pickmeup (carousel run funded by bucks county council) has taken even more passengers away from Arriva so was very much a matter of time.

 

[Russel]

Curious as to where the 12 plate Citaros will end up...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well now he is forced to use bluestar. Xelabus used to have more routes but the owner is now more keen on coach hire than commercial bus routes.


I once used Carousel and they cancelled 2 of the buses I had to use. I'm not used to bus cancellations ever since I moved to Denmark.

That's hardly a reason to suggest that Go Ahead aren't to be trusted to replace Arriva. Cancellations happen and it's unfortunate and annoying but it happens. In the case of Arriva in Wycombe, it seems to happen quite frequently so Carousel may well be regarded as an improvement.

As for your friend's experience of Go South Coast... this would be the 2023 Bus Operator of the Year so sounds like he's been exceptionally unlucky.

Local media have been reporting that First have their eye on some of the Wycombe routes too - doesn't seem like fertile ground for onroad competition, I assume someone will have to back down before July.

I'd not pay too much credence to that. Go Ahead have quickly stuck their flag into the territory and with a local depot to help this, I can't see First getting too excited. IIRC, their incursion into Crewe was neither large nor sustained after Arriva's exit.

Wasn’t it only a few months ago Arriva simplified the Wycombe network with some significant changes to improve reliability etc?

I’m sure I recall one of the local managers actually commenting on here the reasons and thought processes behind the changes stating customer feedback.

Wasn’t there also going to an influx of East Lancs Olympuses due to their better spec’d interiors for the X routes?

Just seems strange to go to all this effort to pack it all in not long after - they clearly thought they had a future in this area until very recently.

It sounded like a last throw of the dice even then, TBH. Part of the problem was that those sums were doubtless based on running virtually all the mileage and they've struggled to operate that. So the fixed costs of the depot, the back office, the drivers (stood with no bus or a breakdown) and no revenue exacerbates an already parlous situation.

Honestly does Arriva even have a future? It's just a business in managed decline.

Depends where you're looking. In Europe and London with its steady income, structured return on investment and lack of risk, probably. The rest of UK Bus has some powerhouses (that also aren't what they were) in Murkeyside, Leicester and West Yorkshire (and are at risk from franchising). Of the other operations, ones that were "decent" are now increasingly marginal and vulnerable - Mark My Words, I reckon you'll see others go. I can think of four or five more that I think were marginal a few years ago and won't survive past 2025 (though I hope I'm wrong).

 

[Parebunks]

I'd not pay too much credence to that. Go Ahead have quickly stuck their flag into the territory and with a local depot to help this, I can't see First getting too excited. IIRC, their incursion into Crewe was neither large nor sustained after Arriva's exit.

Yes - it was on the 9 o'clock BBC local radio, but had disappeared by the time they put an article on the website a few hours later! Think the only remaining variable here is what Redline do - the 130 and X20 may need some alteration to cover Naphill and Haddenham respectively.

Depends where you're looking. In Europe and London with its steady income, structured return on investment and lack of risk, probably. The rest of UK Bus has some powerhouses (that also aren't what they were) in Murkeyside, Leicester and West Yorkshire (and are at risk from franchising). Of the other operations, ones that were "decent" are now increasingly marginal and vulnerable - Mark My Words, I reckon you'll see others go. I can think of four or five more that I think were marginal a few years ago and won't survive past 2025 (though I hope I'm wrong).

Given many of Arriva's strongest operations seem to be in areas slated for franchising, seems like the natural path for the new ownership would be to shift into principally contract operations a la Transport UK or Comfort DelGro. Guess they could hang on to a few other depots in areas like Leicester that aren't implementing franchising for whatever reason, but the more rural stuff in areas like Kent, North Wales, etc feels like it may not have much longer for this world - certainly Arriva now seems far weaker than Stagecoach, First, or Go-Ahead in terms of commercial operations nationally.

 

[ScotGG]

Kent already feels near death, Not even trying for new Fastrack contracts. Also lost a few routes in SE London so could see them completely leaving NW Kent and Dartford area.

 

[3Counties]

As others have said, quite the inevitability. It has felt like a very long slow withering away in the area, rapidly declining in quality in the last couple of years. To think of the miles you could cover on one arriva explorer ticket 15 years ago across the shires.


In recent years Aylesbury's subterranean bus station, dreary at the best of times—has been made all the more bleak by Arriva's decaying image. I know there is much debate on here about brand image, but I do honestly believe that part of the coup of the red group companies in Aylesbury was the little burst of investment with some new vehicles arriving that look a little more comfortable. Looking amlost like rolls royces next to some of the Arriva fleet. The red group companies do of course have more than their share of falling apart dust buckets trundling about, but they came in showing some care and good intention, and as we can see they've won a lot of custom. Red Rose is a little bit of an outlier in not being a part of £2 scheme, which leads to some shocks on the wallet.


Hopefully the upshot of all of this for Wycombe will be a little more long term stability in whatever guise it reveals itself. Over the past few years it has been a true farce. Whilst Aylesbury has doddered in sorry state, less chaotic more downright sad.


Carousel are by no means without issues, but manage to operate a fairly solid service across quite a wide geographic area. Their fleet is nothing special, but for the most part feels infinitely more cared for than Arriva's. They've been slowly developing a solid network that fails me far less than Arriva.

 

[Mwanesh]

I pointed out some time ago that High Wycombe was a basket case. If I remember correctly there has been problem after problem at the depot. It has surprised me it has lasted this long. Around 2010 it was on its knees. Aylesbury is a strange one it was a strong performer but with some of the trunk routes moving to Hemel that was the end of it.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

In recent years Aylesbury's subterranean bus station, dreary at the best of times—has been made all the more bleak by Arriva's decaying image. I know there is much debate on here about brand image, but I do honestly believe that part of the coup of the red group companies in Aylesbury was the little burst of investment with some new vehicles arriving that look a little more comfortable.

I travelled from Aylesbury to Oxford at the weekend and had a very pleasant journey on a 73-plate Redline Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora. A complete contrast to the scruffy and dirty Arriva Enviro400 I last used when travelling this way. I moved to Aylesbury in 2014 and even then the Arriva operation here looked down at heal with a motley selection of vehicles. It didn't take long for the Sapphire spec E400s and newer Citaros to get tatty. I know the Red Group for the most part run elderly E200s but on my local route they do a decent job of being dependable and these buses aren't bad for short trips.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Talking of the "Red Group" (I always call them "Red *") they aren't one company, just a set of slightly inter-related family businesses. More loosely related/competing with them (depending on mood) you've also got Z&S (Zaman and Son, if anyone was wondering).