Arsenal vs Liverpool potentially to be moved to Christmas Eve (Update: plans now abandoned)

[cuccir]

If this goes ahead, it is a monumentally stupid decision. Everyone who's travelled by rail on Christmas Eve knows how busy and difficult it can be. People travel with more luggage than usual, commuters and leisure travellers are squeezed into the same times by early finishes to services, and of course everyone is desperate to get where they're going.

Surely common sense has to prevail!?!?

Liverpool object to Sky Sports plan for moving Arsenal game to Christmas Eve

Liverpool are objecting to a proposal by Sky Sports to switch their Premier League game at Arsenal to Christmas Eve, a plan that has been accused of showing “zero regard for supporters”.

The Anfield club are aware of the proposal to move their trip to the Emirates Stadium from Saturday 23 December to Sunday 24 December with a 4pm kick-off. Liverpool have registered strong opposition to the Premier League and the broadcaster, arguing it would be prohibitive for supporters to have to travel to London on Christmas Eve. The last train from London Euston to Liverpool leaves at 9.21pm that day and will only arrive at Lime Street in the early hours of Christmas Day.

Liverpool will continue to voice their opposition to the proposals before Sky Sports announces its festive schedule next month. However, it is the Premier League which will decide whether the disruptive fixture goes ahead. Sky Sports are paying £11m per Premier League game under the current broadcasting deal and it is believed their preference is to have a live match on Christmas Eve.

Sky declined the opportunity to broadcast live in 2000 and 2006, but the mass appeal of Arsenal v Liverpool has encouraged a rethink this year. Liverpool are also scheduled to play Swansea City on Boxing Day and Leicester City on 30 December, at home, and a game on Christmas Eve could have implications for the timing of both matches.

The proposal has also been condemned by the Liverpool supporters’ union, Spirit of Shankly. A statement read: “[We] have been made aware that Liverpool’s away fixture against Arsenal, scheduled for 23 December, is being considered for a move to Christmas Eve.

“It is our understanding that Arsenal have been asked if they can staff such a fixture and the Metropolitan police have been approached for their view. Changing the date to Christmas Eve would have untold impact on staff and supporters, particularly away fans. Depending on kick-off time, and depleted public transport links, the majority of travelling Liverpool supporters would not get home until the early hours of Christmas morning.

“SOS are contacting relevant personnel to put forward our case that it is completely unacceptable to expect fans to travel for a match at this time. The suggestion of such a change again shows zero regard for supporters – much like the corresponding fixture where Euston station was closed over Bank Holiday weekend.”

 

[AlterEgo]

Liverpool are quite right to voice their concerns. This is ridiculous, both from a fan's perspective and from the railway's. It will be a total nightmare. I hope VTWC also add their weight to this complaint.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If this goes ahead, it is a monumentally stupid decision. Everyone who's travelled by rail on Christmas Eve knows how busy and difficult it can be. People travel with more luggage than usual, commuters and leisure travellers are squeezed into the same times by early finishes to services, and of course everyone is desperate to get where they're going.

Surely common sense has to prevail!?!?

Bear in mind this is BSkyB we're talking about... :roll:

 

[DarloRich]

Liverpool are quite right to voice their concerns. This is ridiculous, both from a fan's perspective and from the railway's. It will be a total nightmare. I hope VTWC also add their weight to this complaint.

agree 100%.

All stakeholders ( including NR/VTWC/BTP & Met Police) need to object in the strongest terms. It is stupid.

Although I bet the FA fold to Sky's demands.

 

[OuterDistant]

I somehow suspect that common sense is worth a lot less to the FA than £11 million.

 

[Bantamzen]

Bear in mind this is BSkyB we're talking about... :roll:

Indeed, Sky don't care about the travelling fans because they are not inflating their viewing figures. In fact it would not suprise me if some wag at Sky suggested this because they might get a few thousand more viewers and a few more subscriptions because fans couldn't get back.

Maybe Liverpool should take a different tactic here, ask Sky / FA to front the cost of hiring several Pendos, crew etc to run services to and from London for the fans, bearing in mind the cost to do this plus making sure units and crew are back where they need to be at the end of service?

 

[northwichcat]

^ But would any drivers want to volunteer to take a Pendolino back to where it needs to be in the early hours of the 25th?

 

[Bellbell]

^ But would any drivers want to volunteer to take a Pendolino back to where it needs to be in the early hours of the 25th?

I agree. I know there is an annual debate on Christmas working on these boards and I don't wish to ignite it but I think the chances of finding crews who want to work a football train late on Christmas Eve are pretty slim. Are VTWC Sundays outside?

I also have no idea what the engineering plans are for Christmas but might running later trains back to Liverpool impact on those?

What an awful idea by Sky although I agree that they probably don't give two hoots for the fans who'll be impacted.

 

[AlterEgo]

Not sure if there's even any engineering work which would preclude running specials?

 

[philjo]

I found this page on National Rail outlining the 2016 arrangements. On Christmas Eve 2016 the last departure to Liverpool departed Euston at 19:07. (& 19:20 to Manchester)

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/147571.aspx#VT

the 21:21 time in the OPs Quote I think is the normal sunday last departure time?

 

[baz962]

I am a season tkt holder at the emirates for my sins and I do not want it to be on xmas eve and I don't have the travel the liverpool fans have I feel for them and am with them on this. I am already thinking of cancelling sky and going elsewhere and this would be the final straw for me.

 

[gavin]

I found this page on National Rail outlining the 2016 arrangements. On Christmas Eve 2016 the last departure to Liverpool departed Euston at 19:07. (& 19:20 to Manchester)

the 21:21 time in the OPs Quote I think is the normal sunday last departure time?

Aye RTT shows the last train on Christmas eve is 21:21 to Liverpool then again it also shows London Midland are running services throughout Christmas day

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/EUS/2017/12/25/1311?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[CentralTrainer]

The clubs are happy enough to take the Sky money thrown at them - so no sympathy when they start whining about how unfair it all is when Sky want to maximise their payment for the rights

 

[Clip]

Bloody stupid idea.

Its the premier league and not the fa who will have the final say I do believe

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

The clubs are happy enough to take the Sky money thrown at them - so no sympathy when they start whining about how unfair it all is when Sky want to maximise their payment for the rights

It's not the clubs "whining" they are trying to think of the 4/5000 fans that have to get to and from London On Christmas eve and not even and early kick off!!

Getting kids back home after Father Christmas has kicked off his tour is not acceptable really. They might see him.

 

[Clip]

The clubs are happy enough to take the Sky money thrown at them - so no sympathy when they start whining about how unfair it all is when Sky want to maximise their payment for the rights

Theyre 'whining' because theyre actually thinking of their fans and how they would be accommodated or not.

 

[northwichcat]

I agree. I know there is an annual debate on Christmas working on these boards and I don't wish to ignite it but I think the chances of finding crews who want to work a football train late on Christmas Eve are pretty slim. Are VTWC Sundays outside?

I think the debate normally relates to trains on Boxing Day when there's things on like the sales starting, sporting events and when some people might like to travel to get away from the relatives who they've been with since Christmas Eve.

In the case of Liverpool fans it won't just be the time of the last train back to Lime Street to consider, it'll be the time of the last local connections out of central Liverpool (both rail and bus) and some fans will be more interested in the time of the last train to Crewe, Chester or Warrington.

 

[AlterEgo]

The clubs are happy enough to take the Sky money thrown at them - so no sympathy when they start whining about how unfair it all is when Sky want to maximise their payment for the rights

Liverpool aren't whining about how unfair it is for the club. What they want is a good experience for their fans. They don't give up their voice to speak on behalf of the fans, just because they get Sky money.

 

[northwichcat]

The clubs are happy enough to take the Sky money thrown at them - so no sympathy when they start whining about how unfair it all is when Sky want to maximise their payment for the rights

I would have thought the Premier League gets the television revenue even if it directly results in clubs getting more money from playing in the Premier League. It's not just Sky who provide television revenue - BT Sport, BBC (to provide highlights of all games) and many international broadcasters also have PL rights including Canal+ and ESPN Latin America.

 

[The Planner]

Not sure if there's even any engineering work which would preclude running specials?

In a word, yes.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Although I bet the FA fold to Sky's demands.

I somehow suspect that common sense is worth a lot less to the FA than £11 million.

Its the premier league and not the fa who will have the final say I do believe

Yep, it's got nowt to do with the FA and everything to do with the Premier League.

(Yes the FA is nominally involved in the Premier League, but in reality has little influence and certainly no involvement in day-to-day issues such as fixture dates.)

 

[AntoniC]

I think the debate normally relates to trains on Boxing Day when there's things on like the sales starting, sporting events and when some people might like to travel to get away from the relatives who they've been with since Christmas Eve.

In the case of Liverpool fans it won't just be the time of the last train back to Lime Street to consider, it'll be the time of the last local connections out of central Liverpool (both rail and bus) and some fans will be more interested in the time of the last train to Crewe, Chester or Warrington.

Merseyrail shuts down about 8PM on Christmas Eve and there are no services on Christmas Day

 

[FordFocus]

Sky and the FA have form over fixture movements like this in the past.


So I fully expect this to go ahead.

 

[gg1]

Do Islington Council have the power to insist the match is re-arranged to an alternate date?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Do Islington Council have the power to insist the match is re-arranged to an alternate date?

The police can if they feel they will be over stretched on a busy night like Christmas Eve anyway.

 

[Gemz91]

Not a fan of Sky TV at all, I' say that before I start.

But I don't see how this is any different from when Sky switch games to Thursday, Friday or Monday nights, or nune kick offs. There's no possible train connections back to places after these games, but the games still get changed. I suppose the only difference is with Christmas being the next day people are less likely to get hotels.

 

[Clip]

Not a fan of Sky TV at all, I' say that before I start.

But I don't see how this is any different from when Sky switch games to Thursday, Friday or Monday nights, or nune kick offs. There's no possible train connections back to places after these games, but the games still get changed. I suppose the only difference is with Christmas being the next day people are less likely to get hotels.

Theres a massive difference - there will be hotels available too. the problem is is them getting back on Christmas day. Other times fans can always get back somehow but this would mean no fans would probably make the journey

 

[CentralTrainer]

It's not the clubs "whining" they are trying to think of the 4/5000 fans that have to get to and from London On Christmas eve and not even and early kick off!!

Getting kids back home after Father Christmas has kicked off his tour is not acceptable really. They might see him.

God knows how we used to cope with back to back games on Christmas Day and Boxing Day in the past...

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

God knows how we used to cope with back to back games on Christmas Day and Boxing Day in the past...

I don't know either and certainly don't remember 1959 was along time ago.

 

[londonbridge]

Surely common sense has to prevail!?!?

Bear in mind this is BSkyB we're talking about... :roll:

Unfortunately common sense and SKY do not go hand in hand. Admittedly not as serious an issue, in 2015/16 they decided to move Sunderland's home fixture on Great North Run weekend to the Sunday at 1.30pm, with complete disregard for the additional impact on the public transport infrastructure, as well as the fans who were participating in the run and had been planning to attend the match on the Saturday afternoon.