Asked for date of birth and postcode when ID'd at supermarket - is this normal?

[Drsatan]

Hi all,


This afternoon I went to my local branch of Aldi to buy some alcohol for a get-together at a friends house. Anyway, at the checkout, the cashier asked me for ID, so I showed her my driving license (it's in a transparent sleeve in my wallet) but she asked me to remove my driving license so she could ask some questions. Firstly, she asked me to confirm my date of birth, and then she asked me to state my postcode.

Although I understand that asking a customer for his or her postcode would be understandable in case the customer was underage and/or using a fake ID, I was rather unsettled when I was asked to give my postcode, since this means that Aldi (or the police) can trace me.

I haven't bought alcohol at a supermarket for quite a while, but it was the first time I was questioned when buying - previously I've merely been asked to show some ID.

Is it now normal practice to ask customers questions regarding personal details when buying age-restricted products, or is it just Aldi which does this?

 

[Darandio]

Hi all,


This afternoon I went to my local branch of Aldi to buy some alcohol for a get-together at a friends house. Anyway, at the checkout, the cashier asked me for ID, so I showed her my driving license (it's in a transparent sleeve in my wallet) but she asked me to remove my driving license so she could ask some questions. Firstly, she asked me to confirm my date of birth, and then she asked me to state my postcode.

Although I understand that asking a customer for his or her postcode would be understandable in case the customer was underage and/or using a fake ID, I was rather unsettled when I was asked to give my postcode, since this means that Aldi (or the police) can trace me.

I haven't bought alcohol at a supermarket for quite a while, but it was the first time I was questioned when buying - previously I've merely been asked to show some ID.

Is it now normal practice to ask customers questions regarding personal details when buying age-restricted products, or is it just Aldi which does this?

I think it is just a practice of trying to catch you out, thats all although the fact you have a photocard licence should pretty much mean it is you.

However, I dont see why you were unsettled about giving your postcode. Your name and address is on the front of the licence anyway! Any cashier could quickly write down your name and postcode if you needed to be traced, regardless of whether you tell them it or not.

 

[Donny Dave]

That is a bit over the top. As long as you produce sufficient ID, such as a driving licence, you should be fine. I've never heard of anyone being questioned about details on said ID.

Perhaps it's worth writing a letter to the store manager asking them to clarify their ID procedures and explain why your asking.

 

[devon_metro]

I've been asked for postcode (only once) however the photo was taken 2 years ago and the woman doing the IDing was clearly suspicious that it wasn't me!

 

[jimrbrobinson]

Damn, I never get asked for ID . At 33 I'd take is as one hell of a compliment if I did! I mean, that means that they're saying you don't look over 21, right? Though don't know how that works in the case of that septegenarian who was refused at Morrisons 'cos he didn't have any ID on him!!!

 

[yorkie]

Damn, I never get asked for ID . At 33 I'd take is as one hell of a compliment if I did! I mean, that means that they're saying you don't look over 21, right? Though don't know how that works in the case of that septegenarian who was refused at Morrisons 'cos he didn't have any ID on him!!!

That infamous Morrisons incident (I know people who work at that store) was quite funny but at that time their policy was to randomly ask people - regardless of how old they looked - for ID so that they would not be seen as discriminating against younger people and people who looked older wouldn't be offended. It is very difficult to judge if someone is over a certain age, harder than most people think, and hence their policy sounded a good idea to some people, however it backfired - big style

A couple of years ago Tesco were IDing anyone who looked under 30.

 

[rail-britain]

It forms part of "Due Dilegence" when serving or selling alcohol
The person must be clearly look to be aged 25 or over
If the person looks under 25 then ID should be asked for

Could be worse, one of my work colleagues is 34 but looks under 18
This person was asked for ID, which they did not have, in order to buy cigarettes
However behind them was a Police officer, who followed them
They were then asked to accompany them to the Police car where an identity check was performed
Sure enough, ID proven as aged 34
The car should have been a clue to the age!

 

[142094]

Haven't heard of having to give the postcode as well. Once was ID for the lottery when I was 18. Had to have a little laugh at that.

 

[sprinterguy]

I've had a similar issues with Aldi once before, but nowhere else. I very rarely get ID'd at all, and for around 18 months I used the same branch in Birmingham to regularly buy cider for the weekend, until, sometime shortly after the new year, when once again buying cider, I was told when randomly ID'd that they no longer accepted provisional driving licenses, which is what I displayed, as ID. They stated that it was new policy introduced in all supermarkets, but having since been occasionally ID'd in Tesco's, the only place I really ever get ID'd, there's been no problem there. So it seems that Aldi can sometimes just take the ID laws quite heavily compared to anywhere else.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Hey! Don't have a go at the shop staff!
Its a fine of £5000 for selling alcohol to someone under 18, and local authorities DO make "test purchases" using young people (supervised of course) to check that a shop suspected of selling to underage persons is making full and proper checks. Repeated offences will result in a review of their Licence (which will most likely be the loss of their Licence to sell alcohol to anyone).
Its only fair that you allow them to keep their Licence and take steps to protect themselves from being caught out.

How would you feel if you were working there and knew that the Local Authority and Police have been checking on you with "test purchases" by young people?

 

[yorkie]

I've always wondered if they ensure that the young people look older than they are, or if they are chosen literally randomly? It would be very easy to pick the ones that look older, to catch people out...

 

[atomicdanny]

(edit - to DaveNewcastle) That's odd since I thought that it was an on the spot fine of £80 to the cashier that sold the alcohol to anyone under that age, not only that the cashier would almost certainly be dismissed (no matter how long he/she had been with the company) and get a criminal record apparently (although I don't know for certain on the last part) - that is if it was a failed test purchase.

Although saying that if a store has two or three failed test purchases it will lose its license to sell alcohol! (and in the case of "Netto" the store manager would lose their job and so would the district manager). I used to be a deputy manager at one of the netto stores so I do know something

As said above just because the cashier asks for ID, they have to do that for a reason if they don't then it could end up very badly for them thanks to the law!

edit- I think they deliberatly choose someone who is either underage and looks older, or is over 18 but looks younger to test the cashiers. I know that is what my district manager did when he did his own test purchases (although the staff who failed those only got warnings rather than the worst case)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

That shouldn't really matter if the shop is acting responsibly. Many stores, pubs etc. now have a policy which requires staff to estimate the customer's age, and then, if the customer looks as if they may be, for example, under 21, then request ID to confirm their age, although the threshold in law is 18. (Higher ages may be stipulated).

With such a policy, then a "test purchase" by a 17 year old who looked more like 20, would be caught by the policy of checking.
That still leaves the shop's Licence holder open to criticism for not considering that a desperate youth might use someone else's ID.
The OP's example of cross-referencing simple details on the ID with the customer's own recollection of these details would be seen as taking reasonable measures to confirm the customer is producing their own ID, (knowing that the production of a document does not constitute any sort of proof).

The Police would usually be satisfied (if there was no evidence to the contrary) that this supermarket was taking reasonable and adequate steps to ensure thet they were acting lawfully, even if there had been one unlawful supply of alcohol.

 

[AeroSpace]

knowing that the production of a document does not constitute any sort of proof

Erm, yes it does if the document has your name and photograph on it.

As an aside, I get quite irritated when this process is referred to as 'identification'. The retailer doesn't give a flying badger who you are, only that you are at least 18 years of age.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

(edit - to DaveNewcastle) That's odd since I thought that it was an on the spot fine of £80 to the cashier that sold the alcohol to anyone under that age, not only that the cashier would almost certainly be dismissed (no matter how long he/she had been with the company) and get a criminal record apparently (although I don't know for certain on the last part) - that is if it was a failed test purchase.

It is an offence under Section 146 or 147 of the Licensing Act 2003. The Offence is committed by the "Designated Premises Supervisor" (DPS) and not by the person they have authorised at the check out desk. S.146 Penalty is - Level 5 on the standard scale. Currently £5000.

There is also the risk of the more serious S136 Offence of knowingly permitting an unauthorised Licensable Activity which carries a fine of up to £20,000 and or 6 months imprisonment.
I can't see where the £80 comes from.

I think they deliberatly choose someone who is either underage and looks older, or is over 18 but looks younger to test the cashiers. I know that is what my district manager did when he did his own test purchases (although the staff who failed those only got warnings rather than the worst case)

I can't speak for Netto.
A Local Authority and Police combined effort to "test" a retailler is NOT an attempt to convict anyone nor to take away anyones job or Licence.
It is a reasonable attempt to gather robust evidence in a controlled manner in response to some less-well founded allegation or claim.
The Police and Local Authorities are well aware that many allegations are unfounded, untrue, and motivated by reasons which have nothing to do with the Acts referred to. They respond by a measured and proportionate "test" of the accusation - each "test purchase" would be designed to be as appropriate as possible to the circumstances. That might involve other factors.

 

[atomicdanny]

Fair enough (although I was told it was £80 but I'm not disputing what you said though, I was probably incorrectly informed at the time) as for the dismissal part that was the company that would do that rather than the authorities)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

knowing that the production of a document does not constitute any sort of proof

Erm, yes it does if the document has your name and photograph on it.

After establishing that a sale of alcohol had been made to someone under 18, and during a subsequent interview, its very likely that the person making the sale might be asked if they realised that young people wanting to buy alcohol might borrow the identification of an older relative.
Any one in that position would want to be able to say "yes, but that's why we ask them a couple of questions about what's on their ID".

The document doesn't have "your name", AeroSpace. It has a name.
It the job of the person checking it to check it.
And no one wanting to make a false claim would use ID of someone who didn't look similar (would they?)
I must repeat: the production of a document [of identification] does not constitute any sort of proof [of identification]

As an aside, I get quite irritated when this process is referred to as 'identification'. The retailer doesn't give a flying badger who you are, only that you are at least 18 years of age.

Exactly!
That's their obligation, imposed on them by the 2003 Licensing Act, and which arises from them wanting to sell alcohol, which is something (and I'm guessing, here), you choose to buy.
Perhaps your irritation (which is quite understandable!) should be directed against the government's lawmakers for their wanting to control the availaibility of alcohol and a million other things it controls, regulates and taxes?

 

[AeroSpace]

After establishing that a sale of alcohol had been made to someone under 18, and during a subsequent interview, its very likely that the person making the sale might be asked if they realised that young people wanting to buy alcohol might borrow the identification of an older relative.

Surely this young person would know the postcode of this older relative, and even if they didn't, they would have surely have looked at it before using it.

Obviously if the wrong postcode was given then that is proof that the id is incorrect, but if a right postcode is given then that cannot be any proof that the id is correct!

I must repeat: the production of a document [of identification] does not constitute any sort of proof [of identification]

Not even if the cashier takes a photocard, looks at the photo and puts the card under a UV scanner, and concludes that the photo is of you and that the card is genuine? If not, then I don't see what else you could do. I seriously doubt that knowing your own postcode constitutes any sort of proof.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Surely this young person would know the postcode of this older relative, and even if they didn't, they would have surely have looked at it before using it.

Obviously if the wrong postcode was given then that is proof that the id is incorrect, but if a right postcode is given then that cannot be any proof that the id is correct!
. . . .
I seriously doubt that knowing your own postcode constitutes any sort of proof.

You are quire correct. Being able to correctly state 1 or 2 details on the document when asked is a "test" of the evidence - its not proof.

The distinction I was trying to make was between a shop assistant (simply) acknowledging that a customer was presenting a piece of ID, and a shop assistant taking some reasonable steps to satisfy themselves that the person presenting the ID was the person referred to by the ID.
No, its not proof, but its a reasonable measure to ensure that the shop is complying with its legal obligations. It would be much harder for a prosecution against the shop to succeed if the shop had a policy of "testing" customer's statement of age with a variety of questions about the evidence presented, and that policy was published as a condition of work, and was actually put into practice by sales staff (including during any test purchase).

I'm sorry if I'm not making this clear - but the crucial evidence isn't the customer being able to "prove" their age, its the shop being able to "prove" they don't sell to under 18's. Neither are going to be 100% foolproof, but custom and practice has established some acceptable procedures.

 

[Geezertronic]

I can't see the problem. The cashier was clarifying that you actually knew your own DOB and Postcode. Watching the cop programs on TV, people with fake ID or documents often stutter when asked the basic questions. Makes good TV I suppose

 

[rail-britain]

I've always wondered if they ensure that the young people look older than they are, or if they are chosen literally randomly

That is correct, they will specifically choose someone aged one year under the limit that looks older than that
Example :
For cigarettes the age limit is 18, so they will choose someone that looks 18 but is actually 17

Other categories regularly tested include magazines, computer games, cigarettes, tobacco, offensive weapons, and medicines

For medicines adults can also be used, to ensure that the maximum limits for some items are not exceeded

 

[Sherlock37]

My mum & sister came back from Iceland yesterday.

My mum had picked up some of that Echo Falls 4-pack stuff, and during the remaining time in the alcohol isle, my sister was told she couldn't buy it!

She turned round and said "I'm not buying it, my mum is"

But in reply "I still need ID" and she called the manager over.

It got sorted but I'd have told them that if you can't walk through an alcohol isle, then get stuffed!

 

[jon0844]

At the end of the day, a shop can simply refuse to serve you full stop - and there are cases where an adult is supected of buying drink for someone underage.

I can imagine it being potentially embarrassing, or staff getting it wrong sometimes, but they're doing it to avoid a hefty fine or worse.

And 'testers' must state their real age if asked. At this point, the offence is committed if staff serve anyway. If they don't ask, they'll also get into trouble if it's quite clear they look underage, or within the 'margin of error' that sees some retailers considering ages from 21 to 25.

In the long run, I don't see a problem - nor staff actually checking IDs properly. Hey, it's all part of the challenge! Spoken as someone who got served drink underage for years, including being served in pubs.

 

[me123]

Hi all,


This afternoon I went to my local branch of Aldi to buy some alcohol for a get-together at a friends house. Anyway, at the checkout, the cashier asked me for ID, so I showed her my driving license (it's in a transparent sleeve in my wallet) but she asked me to remove my driving license so she could ask some questions. Firstly, she asked me to confirm my date of birth, and then she asked me to state my postcode.

Although I understand that asking a customer for his or her postcode would be understandable in case the customer was underage and/or using a fake ID, I was rather unsettled when I was asked to give my postcode, since this means that Aldi (or the police) can trace me.

I haven't bought alcohol at a supermarket for quite a while, but it was the first time I was questioned when buying - previously I've merely been asked to show some ID.

Is it now normal practice to ask customers questions regarding personal details when buying age-restricted products, or is it just Aldi which does this?

This is perfectly normal. I work in Morrisons, and on occasions I do ask some customers to confirm the postcode or DOB when I'm not 100% sure with the ID. The reason is that, if you're using someone else's ID, you may not have bothered to learn the DoB or postcode, so your response may be wrong, hesitant or simply non-existent.

Now, of course, if someone uses someone else's ID and the person in the photo looks similar enough, then AIUI they would let that slip (although it's not something I'd like to rely on!) as long as it is valid and appropriate ID (eg, Driver's License, PASS card, EU ID card, Passport).

However, if the attendant sells alcohol to an under-aged person, they will most likely lose their job, they will receive a fine, the shop may lose its license and, if it does, the business would probably close down. So it's understandable that checkout operators are rather wary about underage sales nowadays.

PS: some people may claim it's somehow violating their rights to ask for this information, however I would like to remind you that the info is already on the photo ID provided.

PPS: I work in Morrisons, and it's straight forward TASK 25. None of this random sampling crap. Although I'll admit to frequently asking 30 year olds for ID
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Fair enough (although I was told it was £80 but I'm not disputing what you said though, I was probably incorrectly informed at the time) as for the dismissal part that was the company that would do that rather than the authorities)

In Scotland, it's £80 on the spot for the operator and up to £5,000 for the license holder (IIRC).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Other categories regularly tested include magazines, computer games, cigarettes, tobacco, offensive weapons, and medicines

For medicines adults can also be used, to ensure that the maximum limits for some items are not exceeded

Tobacco isn't actually test purchased all that often, although will be soon when the tougher tobacco legislation starts coming in to play.

Medicines are extremely common, though. 2 packs of analgesics is the law, although there are also specific quantities in each packet. And it's very common to refuse sale of analgesics for that reason (did it twice today).

And games/DVDs are really frustrating because 12-16 year olds don't carry ID on a daily basis (whereas most young adults have driver's license of proof of age card on them for buying alcohol).

 

[142094]

One of the hardest things to look out for must be adults buying beer for their children to drink at home, which depending on your age is perfectly legal. However I bet a lot of times they refuse to sell it due to the child being under age.

 

[rail-britain]

In Scotland, it's £80 on the spot for the operator and up to £5,000 for the license holder (IIRC)

Tobacco isn't actually test purchased all that often, although will be soon when the tougher tobacco legislation starts coming in to play.

Medicines are extremely common, though. 2 packs of analgesics is the law, although there are also specific quantities in each packet. And it's very common to refuse sale of analgesics for that reason (did it twice today).

That is the old fine; £80 Fixed Penalty for the operator
This no longer applies, as it is a personal licence

At the stores where I work the records show about 60% alcohol, 35% tobacco (predominantly cigarettes), and 5% medicines

The maximum is not 2 packs, but 32 tablets
However, pharmacists can still supply up to 100 tablets without prescription (the boxes are clearly marked "pharmacy size")
This is a pointless law, as the customer can take 32 leave the premises put them in their car, then go back and purchase another 32

 

[Drsatan]

This is perfectly normal. I work in Morrisons, and on occasions I do ask some customers to confirm the postcode or DOB when I'm not 100% sure with the ID. The reason is that, if you're using someone else's ID, you may not have bothered to learn the DoB or postcode, so your response may be wrong, hesitant or simply non-existent.

From reading this thread I understand that asking customers for their date of birth or postcode is more common than I thought. I use my driving license as ID, and the photo on it is about two years old, so maybe the cashier had a right to question me, especially because she would face a fine and a criminal record if caught selling alcohol to an under-age person!

However, I don't see why a customer purchasing age-restricted products should be asked to confirm their postcode. If a customer used a fake ID, then surely that customer could use a fake postcode. It's highly unlikely the cashier would write it down and enter the postcode on Google maps just to verify it!

 

[jon0844]

That's the cat and mouse game played between underage drinkers/smokers and those in authority!

The one thing the honest shopkeeper has in his/her favour is the fact that MOST kids will be nervous and will be easy to spot when trying to remember a fake DOB, address or even name (to match an ID that may be loaned to them - as against having created a fake one). The fact is, once you're genuinely legal then you're not going to be scared by being asked as you simply tell the truth. To keep things relevant to this forum, the same must (and I am certain, does) apply to when RPIs ask basic questions to people travelling on child tickets.

Of course, there will be good liars and these ones may slip through the net - but the shop will have done all they can do until such time that they WILL have to enter details into a computer to do additional checks.

 

[87 027]

Relating to alcohol rationing - my wife's elderly aunt (80+) was in Aldi stocking up on the gin supplies recently. She was told at the checkout that she couldn't buy more than 6 bottles in a single transaction. Her reply: that's OK, my husband is in the next aisle with another 6, and then we're going to come back for more at different checkouts!

 

[atomicdanny]

Relating to alcohol rationing - my wife's elderly aunt (80+) was in Aldi stocking up on the gin supplies recently. She was told at the checkout that she couldn't buy more than 6 bottles in a single transaction. Her reply: that's OK, my husband is in the next aisle with another 6, and then we're going to come back for more at different checkouts!

I think thats more of a case where they don't usually have more than a set amount, I know it was like this at netto and to keep it fair they would set limits on certain spirits to ensure that they didn't have one customer buying all of them at once (complaints etc...). Unlike bigger supermarkets such as tesco / sainsburys / asda etc, Aldi / Lidl / Netto don't have the alarms at the doors or those tags and to have a lot of those in the stock room (most of these types of stores don't have a secure room as such) and these are also more of a high risk product where a fair bit of loss can happen via theft (staff / customers).