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Asylum Seekers & Channel Crossings

BrokenSam

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Mod Note: Post #1 - #40 originally in this thread.

Farage still moaning about a migrant crisis that doesn't exist? Grift channel for people who aren't interested in impartial news and just want their views cemented.
 
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alex397

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Farage still moaning about a migrant crisis that doesn't exist? Grift channel for people who aren't interested in impartial news and just want their views cemented.
To be honest, I’d say it is a crisis. But not for the same reasons Farage and his devoted followers think.
I’d say Farage’s comments about the RNLI were unforgivable, but thankfully it has led to a surge of donations, rather than a ‘defunding’ as was hoped by the far right.

It’s a shame GB News have stooped so low to get Farage on, someone who is certainly closer to the far right than the centre right.
 

alex397

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Only a crisis to the poor folk struggling in the boats. But I largely agree.
Yes, I agree. The dehumanisation of them is appalling and considered ‘woke’ if any sympathy is shown. But I hopefully it’s just a vocal minority with those abhorrent views.
 

AlterEgo

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Only a crisis to the poor folk struggling in the boats.
Agreed. The challenge for Britain is how to both ensure their safety (and discourage crossings) and process them in line with the law. A lot of Farage's mob don't want either.
 

brad465

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Farage still moaning about a migrant crisis that doesn't exist? Grift channel for people who aren't interested in impartial news and just want their views cemented.
To be honest, I’d say it is a crisis. But not for the same reasons Farage and his devoted followers think.
I’d say Farage’s comments about the RNLI were unforgivable, but thankfully it has led to a surge of donations, rather than a ‘defunding’ as was hoped by the far right.

It’s a shame GB News have stooped so low to get Farage on, someone who is certainly closer to the far right than the centre right.
Only a crisis to the poor folk struggling in the boats. But I largely agree.
If Farage cared properly, he'd demand we stop screwing over the Middle East and improve quality of life in the war-torn countries that has forced refugees to embark on this dangerous journey in the first place. But he won't, whether on his show or on Twitter, because he's either not intelligent enough, or more likely in this case, he'd rather the crisis keep happening so he can keep shouting about it for the sake of his base popularity and ego.
 

DynamicSpirit

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If Farage cared properly, he'd demand we stop screwing over the Middle East and improve quality of life in the war-torn countries that has forced refugees to embark on this dangerous journey in the first place. But he won't, whether on his show or on Twitter, because he's either not intelligent enough, or more likely in this case, he'd rather the crisis keep happening so he can keep shouting about it for the sake of his base popularity and ego.

While I kinda agree that improving quality of life in war-torn countries is important and is something we should be focusing on, how does the quality of life in the Middle East force a refugee who is already located in France to make a perilous journey across the English Channel? Also, I'm not clear in what manner we are allegedly still screwing over the Middle East?
 

eMeS

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While I kinda agree that improving quality of life in war-torn countries is important and is something we should be focusing on, how does the quality of life in the Middle East force a refugee who is already located in France to make a perilous journey across the English Channel? Also, I'm not clear in what manner we are allegedly still screwing over the Middle East?
First query Surely the attraction of the UK is our native use of English, and that is seen as a key asset when they try moving on to the US?
 

Gloster

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Second query Bloodstains take a long time to be washed out of the soul in the Middle East. (Originally said about Ireland, but just as true.)
 

alex397

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While I kinda agree that improving quality of life in war-torn countries is important and is something we should be focusing on, how does the quality of life in the Middle East force a refugee who is already located in France to make a perilous journey across the English Channel?
Plenty of reasons. The fact we speak the international language of English, existing family links, the belief that they will be safer and have a better quality of life here.
If they have already risked their lives and deserted their country which must be traumatic, I can certainly understand why they will want to try and get to a country they consider the best for the chance of a new life.

While Farage et al make it look like they are all ‘invading’ the UK, only a minority end up here. Many just go to neighbouring Middle Eastern or African countries, and many do indeed try and settle in other European countries.
 

GusB

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Could we stick Farage in a boat without oars and push him out into the channel? I wonder how long it will take for him to appreciate the RNLI and the risks that they take to save others. What a pillock.
 

richa2002

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I don't understand the vitriol towards Farage. What is so bad about wanting borders enforced and legal entry being the only option? The current situation only encourages more and more to make the same dangerous voyage whilst people traffickers get rich. It also means there is no vetting process to make sure we are letting in those who are most at need and don't pose a danger.

The RNLI should be there to assist those who come to grief by way of a genuine accident. Not to routinely assist people traffickers.

I feel as though the outraged are only so because "Farage bad" and they are simply the compassionate/good ones. I see little compassion in encouraging the illegal route.
 

AlterEgo

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I don't understand the vitriol towards Farage. What is so bad about wanting borders enforced and legal entry being the only option? The current situation only encourages more and more to make the same dangerous voyage whilst people traffickers get rich. It also means there is no vetting process to make sure we are letting in those who are most at need and don't pose a danger.

The RNLI should be there to assist those who come to grief by way of a genuine accident. Not to routinely assist people traffickers.

I feel as though the outraged are only so because "Farage bad" and they are simply the compassionate/good ones. I see little compassion in encouraging the illegal route.
Farage has a lot of unpleasant fellow-travellers. Problem is, none of the political solutions that would alleviate the border crossings would be amenable to him.
 

ainsworth74

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The RNLI should be there to assist those who come to grief by way of a genuine accident. Not to routinely assist people traffickers.
How do they determine what is a "genuine accident" and when they are "assisting people traffickers"? Should the RNLI really be having to make those decisions or shouldn't we be asking better from our politicians to ensure that the RNLI only have to deal with emergencies?

It's always feels like blaming the RNLI for saving lives is rather blaming the wrong party. Surely Border Force and the UK Government are the problem here either directly or by not working harder with or, if necessary, to persuade the French to help?
 

py_megapixel

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How do they determine what is a "genuine accident" and when they are "assisting people traffickers"? Should the RNLI really be having to make those decisions or shouldn't we be asking better from our politicians to ensure that the RNLI only have to deal with emergencies?

It's always feels like blaming the RNLI for saving lives is rather blaming the wrong party. Surely Border Force and the UK Government are the problem here either directly or by not working harder with or, if necessary, to persuade the French to help?
I agree entirely. We can't start expecting the emergency services to be selective, because at some point they'll get it wrong.

Just imagine if the fire brigade let houses burn unless the people in them produced a valid passport...
 

class ep-09

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I don't understand the vitriol towards Farage. What is so bad about wanting borders enforced and legal entry being the only option?
Being a refugee - aylum seeker and crossing international borders is LEGAL under international law , even if Pritti Patel or Farage say otherwise .
 

Dai Corner

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Being a refugee - aylum seeker and crossing international borders is LEGAL under international law , even if Pritti Patel or Farage say otherwise .
Even crossing the border from a country in which you could seek asylum to another country?
 

Typhoon

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I suspect that this thread is rather more informative on immigration and asylum seeking than a whole week of Farage would be!
 

XAM2175

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Even crossing the border from a country in which you could seek asylum to another country?
Yes. The relevant international law - the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, 1951 - imposes no requirement, either explicitly or implicitly, that a refugee claim asylum in the first "safe" country they reach.

There is a regulation within the European Union (Regulation No. 604/2013, the Dublin Regulation) that determines the Member State responsible for processing a person's claim to asylum, which is usually but not always the country in which the person first registered their claim. The Regulation allows Member States to return asylum seekers to the responsible country if they are found to have taken residence in a different Member State before their claim is decided, but the UK ceased to be a Member State for the purposes of the Regulation on 31 December 2020.

Additionally, the 1951 Refugee Convention holds in Article 31 that refugees cannot be penalised for entering a country illegally to claim asylum if they are "coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened" provided they "present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence". This is not as straightforward as it might sound - there is precedent in English and Welsh law (such as R v. Uxbridge Magistrates Court and Another, Ex parte Adimi, [1999] EWHC Admin 765; [2001] QB 667) that refugees do have some element of choice as to where they pursue their claim for asylum, and that the requirement for a refugee to come "directly" remains satisfied even if the refugee makes short stop-overs en route.
 

YorkshireBear

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Agree with sentiment on RNLI his comments on them were abhorrent. As if a charity should decide who gets to live or die at sea. It is very much the responsibility of governments to police borders, the RNLI are funded by donations to save lives at sea and long may they continue. This whole thing has made me double my monthly contribution to ensure they don't suffer from the negative press. Although i see actually their donations have increased.


The way him and others carry on you'd think there wasn't large migrant populations in other European countries, of course that isn't the case as there is large migrant populations in France , Spain, Portugal, germany, Austria, Sweden, Belgium etc... Some come to us, the vast majority don't.
 

EssexGonzo

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How do they determine what is a "genuine accident" and when they are "assisting people traffickers"? Should the RNLI really be having to make those decisions or shouldn't we be asking better from our politicians to ensure that the RNLI only have to deal with emergencies?

It's always feels like blaming the RNLI for saving lives is rather blaming the wrong party. Surely Border Force and the UK Government are the problem here either directly or by not working harder with or, if necessary, to persuade the French to help?

To coin the phrase of a fictional detective: “Everybody counts or nobody counts”. The RNLI’s raisin d’etre is solely to fish people out of the sea / dangerous boats every time. Get them to safety. Not to questions their motive for being there or check their immigrations status.

Farage is using the RNLI narrative as a dog whistle for his supporters. Nuanced argument, equitable treatment and human generosity have no place in any of his arguments, or in the GB news agenda. Such arguments just don’t generate clicks, view and donations.
 

AlterEgo

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Agree with sentiment on RNLI his comments on them were abhorrent. As if a charity should decide who gets to live or die at sea. It is very much the responsibility of governments to police borders, the RNLI are funded by donations to save lives at sea and long may they continue. This whole thing has made me double my monthly contribution to ensure they don't suffer from the negative press.
I gave £20 to the RNLI as a one off because I was so disgusted at the level of criticism.

The hard right lost the plot there; the RNLI is one of Britain's finest institutions and they tried to smear them.
 

alex397

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The RNLI should be there to assist those who come to grief by way of a genuine accident. Not to routinely assist people traffickers.
Interesting that you use the word ‘genuine’. How is an overloaded unseaworthy dingy in huge danger of capsizing in the North Sea not a ‘genuine’ incident? It doesn’t matter why that dingy is there, the people need rescuing.

Would a group of British teenagers messing about in the sea in a dangerous dingy, who accidentally get swept out in the current not be a genuine incident?


The RNLI rescue anyone is in danger. It would be completely foolish to begin judging who should be rescued or not. If people are frustrated with it, they should take it up with the Government or Border Force. NOT the RNLI.

I never thought an organisation like the RNLI would be dragged into a pathetic ‘culture war’
 

birchesgreen

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Interesting that you use the word ‘genuine’. How is an overloaded unseaworthy dingy in huge danger of capsizing in the North Sea not a ‘genuine’ incident? It doesn’t matter why that dingy is there, the people need rescuing.

I never thought an organisation like the RNLI would be dragged into a pathetic ‘culture war’
Because they regard some lives as being worth a lot less than others of course. I'll let others judge why.

Glad to see the attempt to smear the RNLI has back fired. Though i suspect Farage has achieved what he really wants, keeping himself in the public eye.
 

Dai Corner

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Interesting that you use the word ‘genuine’. How is an overloaded unseaworthy dingy in huge danger of capsizing in the North Sea not a ‘genuine’ incident? It doesn’t matter why that dingy is there, the people need rescuing.

Would a group of British teenagers messing about in the sea in a dangerous dingy, who accidentally get swept out in the current not be a genuine incident?


The RNLI rescue anyone is in danger. It would be completely foolish to begin judging who should be rescued or not. If people are frustrated with it, they should take it up with the Government or Border Force. NOT the RNLI.

I never thought an organisation like the RNLI would be dragged into a pathetic ‘culture war’
The problem for the RNLI is that they have finite resources and sooner or later they are going to have to choose between assisting a boatful of refugees/ asylum seekers / economic migrants and professional seafarers and their passengers. Not a decision I'd want to have to make.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Plenty of reasons. The fact we speak the international language of English, existing family links, the belief that they will be safer and have a better quality of life here.
If they have already risked their lives and deserted their country which must be traumatic, I can certainly understand why they will want to try and get to a country they consider the best for the chance of a new life.

Those sound like reasons why people might want to come to the UK. They don't sound to me like things that would force them to come to the UK, making an extremely perilous trip in the process, if they are already in a democratic country in which they can claim asylum.
 

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