Attitude Doesn't Help

[EE Type 3]

Lilloaf, you are a prize tit.

And that, is that.

 

[O L Leigh]

Flash photograghy causes momentry blindness, so when you take photos of friends it blind them does it? Does it really ? no i don't think so.

Yes it does, even if only momentarily. How many times have you seen people squinting or rubbing their eyes after being snapped with a flash...?

But the really crucial point is how many times have you taken a flash pic of your friends unexpectedly when they're busy concentrating on something important? Do you think it would be welcome? Perhaps I should shove a flashgun in your face without any warning when you're chopping veg with a really sharp knife. Perhaps you'll lose your shutter-release finger.

I think everyone really needs to relax a bit. Its paranoia, its people jumping to conclusions.

Then take this from me as a driver.

I had someone take a pic of my train as I rolled into Liv St and used a flash. It caught me right at the time I was about to go over the TPWS grids and it caused both an unwelcome distraction at a critical moment and a certain degree of momentary blindness. I was lucky to have already got the speed down below 10mph by that point, but it did make it much harder to judge my distance to the stops.

LilLoaf: I expect the Mods will have me for this, but the more you say the less credible you sound. I already know that you're going to argue with me about what I've just said above, but by doing so you are going ride roughshod right over me. I know what the situation is because I have been in this situation and I know precisely how distracting it is. This is my job that we're talking about here, so if anyone knows what it entails and what effects certain things are going to have, it's going to be me and not you. You're all for standing up for your rights but you have singularly failed to demonstrate that you understand that with your rights come your responsibilities. Stop beating the same damn drum over and over and take a minute to listen to those people who might actually know just a little bit more than you and be humble enough to consider that there might just be something you can learn from them.

End of...

O L Leigh

 

[yorkie]

... I expect the Mods will have me for this..

I expect not

It's people using flash, like LilLoaf, who cause problems for other enthusiasts.

LilLoaf takes things too far, and it doesn't do anyone any favours.

And besides, why would anyone use flash to take a photo of a train? The result is going to be rubbish! So it's a totally pointless argument anyway.

(Credit to wnxx for the head banging emoticon, I think we need to install one!)

 

[LilLoaf]

To take a picture at nights thats why.

Its a camera flash for godsake, not a lighthouse light,

i've had my photo taken loads of times in cabs of trains in America by people using flash photograghy and it never caused the driver any distraction. In fact when i told the driver the problems over here he just laughed (a lot).

I think people take things to serously over here.

Chill people, i'm not causing problems, just pointing out the stupidity of the situation.

 

[O L Leigh]

See, I knew you'd have a pop.

You calling me a liar? Are you saying that I've exaggerated the effects? Do you REALLY know more about my job than I do?

You honestly don't have the first idea what you're talking about. Please stop spouting nonsense in the face of expert opinion. You might just garner a little respect that way.

O L Leigh

 

[dan_atki]

Chill people, i'm not causing problems, just pointing out the stupidity of the situation.

I wouldn't exactly call it stupidity myself because if I was involved in dealing with the safety of a train and everyone on board I would not want unnecessary distractions that could result in me not having complete capability to do my job.

I've avoided being blunt with you so far but think it is now necessary to keep this thread sane and a worthwhile debate going which avoids nastiness to each other. I don't mean the following in a nasty way but am just pointing out to you why people are starting to get uptight in this thread.

The problem is you ask a question (and I quote) 'How can flash photography be a big distraction?' People then answer your question, even those in the hot seat of a train who experience the problems caused explain as such, but then you tell them they're talking rubbish. It's this last bit that gets people annoyed.

If you was a driver who had been distracted by a flash before and was then told you were talking rubbish how would you feel? It completely patronises them and the role they undertake, when in fact, they are more knowledgable about such matters.

You keep referring to America in this topic and pointing out differences. Allow me to point out some other differences too . It is a different country with different culture, run by a different government, in a different way and, as such, is governed by different laws - that's why there is a distinct difference in attitude displayed towards rail enthusiasts. The more relaxed American way of life is much different to the busy British one.

All else I'll say is that people will start to 'chill' when you start to accept their point of view rather than continually argue with it.

I can't predict what else will be said here (although I guess some other comments about your post will be made) but if it gets out of hand then the thread will be locked to prevent a war so please be civil to each other.

I expect the Mods will have me for this

Not me either in this instance as you made some very valid points.

 

[GWRtom]

Lilloaf, you are a prize tit.

Flash photography is horrendously distracting - I know if I get caught with a flash from fairly close range it can bring on a migraine.

The last thing I'd want if I was concentrating on a signal bringing a train to a stand is to have some arse flashgunning me.

I've heard tell, probably on here, of a Freightliner driver who was sufficiently miffed by being 'flashed' that he hopped out of the cab and handed out a rollicking.

i whould say flash is even more dangerous if there is shunting going on with staff on the ground
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Totally madness this now.
So far we've had that train spotters are treated as terrorests

Getting train spotters to sign in reduces the risk of terrorism, who knows how ?

Flash photograghy causes momentry blindness, so when you take photos of friends it blind them does it? Does it really ? no i don't think so.

When bus spotters take pics of buses the driver goes blind and goes through a red light. I'm going to try that in my car " sorry for going through a red but someone took photo and it blinded me.

BTP people of the law telling us not to do something that isnt even against the law.

I think everyone really needs to relax a bit. Its paranoia, its people jumping to conclusions.

oh for funk sake train driving is one of the most dangerous jobs in the country,and using flash chould make them spad
also waving at drivers for horns is NOT a good idea too
one driver who was going through Oldfeild park near bath
spadded because of some teen waving his arm just for a horn

 

[anthony263]

I do regulary see people taking photographs of buses and i have had my photo taken when driving a bus before.

i am very happy to have my picture taken sometimes if safe to do so i will pull over at a bus stop or to the side of the road to allow them to get a better picture.

the only advice i would have is not to photograph buses with school kids on, if i get a bus i want to to get a photo of i normally wait until i have dropped all the kids off.


i have never actually had any bother from and saff when i have been out taking pictures of trains or buses for that matter.

nearly 100% of the stations i have been to i normally have a little chat with some members of staff, in fact i have returned the favour once as a staff member at a certain station likes to take bus photos so if i spot him i always slow down, certainly keeps him happy.

i deally do not use flash epescially at night or on london underground

 

[class 313]

To take a picture at nights thats why.

At night. No flash.

 

[EE Type 3]

At night. No flash.

Wow how did you do that! You must have a magic camera

Who on earth would use flash at night on trains? It brings up all the reflective stripes

Only a n00b would use flash at.....

 

[Matt Taylor]

My money is on Liloaf having a point and shoot camera rather than a DSLR hence the requirement for flash.

As already stated, using flash on railway shots just ruins the picture, get a tripod, set the camera to manual mode and just make the best use of the ambient light and so long as you have a reasonable understanding of photography you won't go wrong.

Whatever the circumstances I can't think of any sane reason why anyone should have a problem with signing in etc. Railway stations are not public areas in the same sense as streets, paths, parks etc. Stations are private property to which the public have access subject to the railway byelaws and therefore if an authorised person asks you to stop photographing failing to do so would be a breach of the byelaws.




Matt

 

[Aureol]

My money is on Liloaf having a point and shoot camera rather than a DSLR hence the requirement for flash.

Nah mate, I've got a "point and shoot" one too (and so did TL at some point...if I'm thinking of the right person, could have been Master Graves ) and flash photography is absolute crap, all photos come out better without flash, albeit maybe a little blurred, but ohwell it can't be helped.
Flash is a huge hazard full stop.

I remember at Lincoln, someone flashed at the spoon and the driver leant on shouting at him.

!
I remember that too, effing quality that was!

Lilloaf, you are a prize tit.

Flash photography is horrendously distracting - I know if I get caught with a flash from fairly close range it can bring on a migraine.

The last thing I'd want if I was concentrating on a signal bringing a train to a stand is to have some arse flashgunning me.

I've heard tell, probably on here, of a Freightliner driver who was sufficiently miffed by being 'flashed' that he hopped out of the cab and handed out a rollicking.

Agreed with all points there Alex!
He's a prize tit from his postings here, I also know what it's like being flashed while in the hot seat, it's definately not nice!

LilLoaf, I will not comment further on the forum as I would only be repeating what has already been said. I would, however, be much obliged to meet you in person at a dark station (or other dark place) and take a flash photo of you straight into your eyes to see how you bloody like it!
Also to express some more views...

Anyway, that's my post for this thread, kthxbai! 8)

 

[jacknottm]

Its in the guidelines for rail enthusiasts that you should not use flash photography. What makes you think that you have external rights from everybody else that gives you the right to do as you please when it may cause an incident, may it be small or large.

I was at Nottingham the other week when the 1035 from London was coming in, there was a chap at the top of the platform with a point and shoot camera, and as expected, the flash fired, the driver spadded the signal and then words were exchanged between the driver and the photographer.

At the end of the day, the rules are there for a reason. Not to get in the way.

 

[LilLoaf]

Well i don't have a really good proper camera, i just use a digital camera, i have no idea how to turn the flash off, and i have never had a problem with it.

 

[Aureol]

Then look in the instruction manual, it's not hard!
If you have ever been intelligent enough to listen, you will notice that on stations with auto announcers, when there is a charter or a special due in, an announcement will appear somewhere along the lines of "This is a safety announcement; we remind customers that flash photography is not permitted anywhere on this station"...or something like that.

 

[Phoenix]

Well i don't have a really good proper camera, i just use a digital camera, i have no idea how to turn the flash off, and i have never had a problem with it.

Just as Aureol said read the manual and use a slow shutter speed and keep the camera still by using a tripod and a timer that's what I do and it works.
I see why you would think you need flash I used to try it but then figured out it doesn't give the best results.

Finally It doesn't really cause blindness but it cause flashspots that can turn up as green or red spots in your vision so a driver wouldn't bew 100% sure of what he see's.
It may not be the worst thing in the world using flash and people do overexaggerate it but it just princiblew to not use it one drivers.

 

[GWRtom]

but it cause flashspots that can turn up as green or red spots in your vision so a driver wouldn't be 100% sure of what he see's.

and chould spad because of this

 

[jv3531]

One thing that has to be remembered is that we all react differently to anything like this and especially with newer cameras the flashes can be very bright, especially in porer lighting where eyes may not adjust so rapidly as normal. The reasons for being asked not to use flashes are not stupid, unecessary or un-reasonable but are there for the simple reason that it is a distraction which could (not definatly - but could) be a potential cause to an incident such as a spad or over-run. It's all ready been stated on here that they have inadvertantly caused such incidents. What we do not want is for the odd individual to spoil it for everyone, thus invoking an "overall" ban to prevent anyone from taking photos, which the companies are quite within their rights to do. All that is asked is that you remember to please consider others, rather than personal gain and think - its not much to ask and your few minutes of thought could spare you and everyone else much unecessary hassle.

 

[EE Type 3]

Well i don't have a really good proper camera, i just use a digital camera, i have no idea how to turn the flash off, and i have never had a problem with it.

Ok, you have your way. Go on using flash on stations and doing what the hell you like, then we will all be banned from taking photogrphs on railway stations. Just think how popular you'll be......

 

[87015]

A bigger problem than flash appears to be the green/red (generally) image stabilising/auto focus type lights which most of the digitals now have simply as it is far more common...

 

[class 313]

That shot of 410 was taken with a normal Digital Camera, not a DSLR.

 

[LilLoaf]

dont see what harm the flash of a digital camera is going to be, maybe MAYBE if it was a huge big proper camera like what members off press use but even then i doubt it would make much of a differance.

If having a flash on a camera is soo harmfull to people then how can camera makers get away with putting flash on camera's in the 1st place.

As for the tripod idea, even that isn't allowed at stations, who knows why, Health and safety people might know.

 

[Aureol]

As for the tripod idea, even that isn't allowed at stations, who knows why, Health and safety people might know.

Uhh, maybe because it's a tripping hazard and they're fairly big so can also get in the way? :roll:

LilLoaf, I know it may be beyond your abilities, but use some COMMON SENSE for crying out loud!

 

[JoshW1992]

LilLoaf, I know it may be beyond your abilities, but use some COMMON SENSE for crying out loud!

I think the expression : 'Use your Loaf' would have been a better one

 

[jacknottm]

Never had a problem with using a tripod before. Just use common sense and keep it away from the edge and nobody will bother you. There is nothing in the rules regarding tripods, so as far as I am aware, these are allowed.

Least they have been for the past 7 years when ive been taking photographs :roll:

 

[Aureol]

I think the expression : 'Use your Loaf' would have been a better one

Nice

 

[class 313]

dont see what harm the flash of a digital camera is going to be, maybe MAYBE if it was a huge big proper camera like what members off press use but even then i doubt it would make much of a differance.

If having a flash on a camera is soo harmfull to people then how can camera makers get away with putting flash on camera's in the 1st place.

As for the tripod idea, even that isn't allowed at stations, who knows why, Health and safety people might know.

Tripods are allowed usually, on quieter areas of the station/platform.

 

[JoshW1992]

Tripods are allowed usually, on quieter areas of the station/platform.

I dont think anybody would have a problem with people using tripods on smaller stations, but if on a large station, best to stick to the platform ends, and quieter areas, to avoid any trouble from station staff.

 

[EE Type 3]

dont see what harm the flash of a digital camera is going to be, maybe MAYBE if it was a huge big proper camera like what members off press use but even then i doubt it would make much of a differance.

If having a flash on a camera is soo harmfull to people then how can camera makers get away with putting flash on camera's in the 1st place.

As for the tripod idea, even that isn't allowed at stations, who knows why, Health and safety people might know.

Are you seriously trying to get on everyones nerves, or can you just not accept something so simple as to not use flash on a station? Camera makers don't account for every single byelaw or rule, they didn't think "People might take photos of trains and it will blind the driver, lets not have a flash"

Read the friggin' rules. No flash allowed on stations. Now how can you not grasp that?

You can take an even better picture at night with a tripod and no flash.

Look >> http://daviddawson.fotopic.net/p54360225.html

Its not rocket science is it?

Now really, just accept the facts.

End of.

 

[AlexS]

Lilloaf, you sir, are a complete and utter hat stand. Can we just lock this thread because it's obvious this cabbage won't get the picture and it long ago lost it's point.