Austria (and perhaps other European countries?) return to full lockdown

[johnnychips]

Another thing that those that are in favour of lockdowns doesn't seem to consider is if businesses keep being ordered to close at some point the owners of said businesses will simply say what's the point we will close for good, which means potentially millions of people will lose their jobs.

Quite - or in the case of an entrepreneur, why risk capital setting up a new business if it is going to be locked down.

 

[Bikeman78]

Good on the Dutch. Always had them down as a bunch of mellow, can't get worked up by anything and accept all, type of people.

Yes I'm very surprised that the Dutch are rioting. It's one of the last places I expected it to happen.

 

[brad465]

Yes I'm very surprised that the Dutch are rioting. It's one of the last places I expected it to happen.

Rioting continued Saturday night (still tonight depending on the definition) as well, despite the police response on the first night including live ammunition:

Fireworks and chaos as Dutch Covid riots continue

Rioters in the Netherlands clashed with police for a second night over new coronavirus measures.

www.bbc.co.uk

(This is a video rather than an article)

There are also reports saying Vienna had a protest that was peaceful but turned violent on Saturday, with estimates that around 35,000 turned up:

Tens of thousands protest in Vienna against Austria’s Covid restrictions

Demonstrations come after announcement of new lockdown and plan for compulsory vaccines

www.theguardian.com

Tens of thousands of people protested in Vienna on Saturday against coronavirus restrictions a day after Austria’s government announced a new lockdown and said vaccines would be made compulsory next year.

Whistling, clapping, blowing horns and banging drums, crowds streamed into Heroes’ Square in front of the Hofburg, the former imperial palace, on Saturday. Many waved Austrian and other flags and carried signs with slogans such as “no to vaccination”, “enough is enough” or “down with the fascist dictatorship”.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-off-travel-shares-as-austria-orders-lockdown
By mid-afternoon the crowds had swelled to about 35,000 people, according to police, and were marching down Vienna’s inner ring road before heading back towards the Hofburg.

A police spokesman said there had been fewer than 10 arrests for breaches of coronavirus restrictions and a ban on Nazi symbols.

Many Austrians are sceptical about vaccines, a view encouraged by the far-right Freedom party (FPÖ), the third-biggest force in parliament.

With daily infections still setting records even after a lockdown was imposed on the unvaccinated this week, the government said on Friday it would put the country back in lockdown from Monday and make it compulsory to get vaccinated from 1 February.

 

[farleigh]

I am not normally a supporter of riots but I hope there are more of these.

 

[brad465]

I am not normally a supporter of riots but I hope there are more of these.

You maybe in luck, the BBC now have their top landing page article reporting on further rioting in the Netherlands, Austria and Italy (and also the French overseas department of Guadeloupe):

Covid: Huge protests across Europe over new restrictions

Belgium says 35,000 took part in protests, with unrest in the Netherlands, Austria and Italy.

www.bbc.co.uk

Fresh unrest has erupted in the Netherlands against new lockdown rules amid rising Covid-19 cases in Europe.
People hurled fireworks at police and set fire to bicycles in The Hague, one night after protests in Rotterdam turned violent and police opened fire.
Thousands of demonstrators also took to the streets in Austria, Croatia and Italy as anger mounted over new curbs.
The World Health Organization (WHO) said it is "very worried" about rising coronavirus cases on the continent.
Its regional director Dr Hans Kluge told the BBC that unless measures were tightened across Europe, half a million more deaths could be recorded by next spring.
"Covid-19 has become once again the number one cause of mortality in our region," he told the BBC, adding "we know what needs to be done" in order to fight the virus - such as getting vaccinated, wearing masks, and using Covid passes.
Many governments across the continent are bringing in new restrictions in a bid to tackle rising infections. A number of countries have recently reported record-high daily case numbers.

Of course the more media coverage this is getting, the more incentive there'll be for rioters to keep up the action, and in particular could serve as a warning to any countries yet to implement new measures that they shouldn't expect them to go down as smoothly as they once did.

Could we now finally be seeing the civil unrest many on this forum (including myself at times) said will happen if measures get reintroduced/sustained for too long?

 

[bramling]

You maybe in luck, the BBC now have their top landing page article reporting on further rioting in the Netherlands, Austria and Italy (and also the French overseas department of Guadeloupe):

Covid: Huge protests across Europe over new restrictions

Belgium says 35,000 took part in protests, with unrest in the Netherlands, Austria and Italy.

www.bbc.co.uk

Of course the more media coverage this is getting, the more incentive there'll be for rioters to keep up the action, and in particular could serve as a warning to any countries yet to implement new measures that they shouldn't expect them to go down as smoothly as they once did.

Could we now finally be seeing the civil unrest many on this forum (including myself at times) said will happen if measures get reintroduced/sustained for too long?

Much as it isn’t a great thing to happen, I’m glad to see it. There’s a limit to how much people were and are going to take of this, especially now vaccines exist.

Sturgeon and Drakeford take note…

The politicians need to do better than restrictions being the default solution. This has gone on long enough now.

 

[Bantamzen]

Yes I'm very surprised that the Dutch are rioting. It's one of the last places I expected it to happen.

I'm not, there really is only so far you can push people before they snap. What did surprise me was that there wasn't more civil unrest in this country. I had honestly expected far more resistance to restrictions here than we actually saw. And to be frank this worries me, have we really become so compliant as a country that we will allow governments to dictate what we can and cannot do with our daily lives? Worrying times indeed.

 

[duncanp]

Another thing that those that are in favour of lockdowns doesn't seem to consider is if businesses keep being ordered to close at some point the owners of said businesses will simply say what's the point we will close for good, which means potentially millions of people will lose their jobs.

Precisely.

Those in favour of lockdowns (I call them "restriction addicts") are generally those who do not have to suffer the consequences of the measures they are advocating, either financially or in terms of mental health.

They seem to think that money grows on trees, and that the government has a bottomless pit of money that it can use to bail out businesses and keep people at home in their pyjamas all day watching Netflix and Reality TV on furlough.

 

[Bantamzen]

Another thing that those that are in favour of lockdowns doesn't seem to consider is if businesses keep being ordered to close at some point the owners of said businesses will simply say what's the point we will close for good, which means potentially millions of people will lose their jobs.

Most people that advocate lockdowns as a solution to the virus are folk that have no idea about how life is at the bottom end of the spectrum. They imagine that businesses can just shut down, or just switch to online working at the push of a button. They don't understand that any business that relies on walk-in custom need people to be allowed to walk-in in the first place, and that most of the people employed by these cannot afford to sit at home playing on Zoom or Teams meetings all day. They don't realise that these people's taxes pay for the services they demand, and that if these people are furloughed they are not being payed by their employers but the government, which means eventually they will have to pay more in taxes to make up the shortfall. All the locktivists care about is themselves. They think that lockdowns keep them safe, but they really don't.

 

[nedchester]

Could we now finally be seeing the civil unrest many on this forum (including myself at times) said will happen if measures get reintroduced/sustained for too long?

In short yes, it was inevitable and I don’t think it’s just anti-vaxxers who are protesting.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I am not normally a supporter of riots but I hope there are more of these.

Would you say that if your car had been torched, your house windows smashed and your children extremely frightened?

 

[ExRes]

Yes I'm very surprised that the Dutch are rioting. It's one of the last places I expected it to happen.

I doubt the Dutch authorities share that belief, they seem to have had tear gas and water cannon available quickly enough, as in many other european countries

 

[farleigh]

Would you say that if your car had been torched, your house windows smashed and your children extremely frightened?

Yes I think so.

It is a difficult one to answer isn't it but I would still support the sentiment of the people protesting. I would be able to separate the people who broke my windows from those who did not I think.

I am sure many of the protestors are upset that their lives have been damaged by lockdown. Governments have cost people far more than some broken glass, a tub of putty and an insurance claim.

As for extremely frightened children, I believe that children have been far more frightened and damaged by the effects of lockdown than by civil unrest.

 

[NorthKent1989]

To be honest I’m glad people are actively pushing back, we in the U.K. have been marching but I think it’ll be a matter of time before similar events take place here if they try to push for another lockdown or passports.

Enough is enough, time to move on from Covid.

 

[WestRiding]

They/we've already lost two years of our lives. This simply cannot continue. Talk about feeling trapped in our own countries.

 

[NorthKent1989]

They/we've already lost two years of our lives. This simply cannot continue. Talk about feeling trapped in our own countries.

Exactly, and I for one am not prepared to give up a third year to a virus which is now basically a bad flu, take the vaccine, don’t take the vaccine I really don’t care it’s freedom of choice and that’s something I want to preserve for future generations.

I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if anti-lockdown parties do well out of this in Europe.

 

[brad465]

To be honest I’m glad people are actively pushing back, we in the U.K. have been marching but I think it’ll be a matter of time before similar events take place here if they try to push for another lockdown or passports.

Enough is enough, time to move on from Covid.

Hopefully measures won't be reintroduced here, but if they were I think a pushback is a very strong possibility, given how we're far closer to normal than other European countries, and have been for at least a few months, such that the mentality we've moved on is very well ingrained. Furthermore, now we're seeing pushback in other European countries where measures have been brought back, our population are seeing resentment and could be incentivised to do the same, and in particular the government will be seeing this and need to act carefully if they want to avoid a repeat. There's also the fact furlough and all other business support schemes have stopped, and bringing them back in will be very hard to do, especially as resentment exists within the Tory party and their backers to such policy.

 

[WestRiding]

Hopefully measures won't be reintroduced here, but if they were I think a pushback is a very strong possibility, given how we're far closer to normal than other European countries, and have been for at least a few months, such that the mentality we've moved on is very well ingrained. Furthermore, now we're seeing pushback in other European countries where measures have been brought back, our population are seeing resentment and could be incentivised to do the same, and in particular the government will be seeing this and need to act carefully if they want to avoid a repeat. There's also the fact furlough and all other business support schemes have stopped, and bringing them back in will be very hard to do, especially as resentment exists within the Tory party and their backers to such policy.

If restrictions end up being brought back here, people really should question why we all had the Vaccination. Just what was the point in it if we still have to live a lesser life. (and yes, before anyone pipes up, I know it doesn't stop you catching it or spreading it) yawn.

 

[Peterthegreat]

If restrictions end up being brought back here, people really should question why we all had the Vaccination. Just what was the point in it if we still have to live a lesser life. (and yes, before anyone pipes up, I know it doesn't stop you catching it or spreading it) yawn.

Well I had the vaccine to protect me from serious illness or death. The lessening of restrictions was a bonus.

 

[DustyBin]

Well I had the vaccine to protect me from serious illness or death. The lessening of restrictions was a bonus.

So how did you think we were going to bring an end to covid restrictions?

 

[WestRiding]

So how did you think we were going to bring an end to covid restrictions?

Quit the obsession with testing people would be a good place to start. More tests, more cases.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Hopefully measures won't be reintroduced here, but if they were I think a pushback is a very strong possibility, given how we're far closer to normal than other European countries, and have been for at least a few months, such that the mentality we've moved on is very well ingrained. Furthermore, now we're seeing pushback in other European countries where measures have been brought back, our population are seeing resentment and could be incentivised to do the same, and in particular the government will be seeing this and need to act carefully if they want to avoid a repeat. There's also the fact furlough and all other business support schemes have stopped, and bringing them back in will be very hard to do, especially as resentment exists within the Tory party and their backers to such policy.

I don’t think restrictions of any sort will be reintroduced, in England at least anyway, based on the Operation Rampdown it does seem that from March 2022, we will be living in a “Post Covid” time, whether this applies to just England or the U.K. as a whole.

I do think the government will keep the threats of restrictions and passports looming over us to get the vaccine rates up, but I think even Boris knows he would royally p*ss off his backbenchers, business owners and his voters, many of whom had never voted Tory before 2019, and he may lose that support to Reform.

We just need to now prepare for March 2022 and get used to normal life again, as it is going to happen whether people like it or not.

 

[bramling]

I don’t think restrictions of any sort will be reintroduced, in England at least anyway, based on the Operation Rampdown it does seem that from March 2022, we will be living in a “Post Covid” time, whether this applies to just England or the U.K. as a whole.

I do think the government will keep the threats of restrictions and passports looming over us to get the vaccine rates up, but I think even Boris knows he would royally p*ss off his backbenchers, business owners and his voters, many of whom had never voted Tory before 2019, and he may lose that support to Reform.

We just need to now prepare for March 2022 and get used to normal life again, as it is going to happen whether people like it or not.

Yes for once I don't think Boris is the immediate problem, so long as (for once) he manages to hold his nerve over the next 4-6 months.

I'm more bothered with the prospect of England being very much the outlier, especially within the UK, as I suspect this would eventually lead to Boris caving in. Likewise I object to Scotland and Wales having such different policies when (1) they demonstrably seem to be producing a worse outcome, and, (2) the cost of such measures are subsidised by UK taxpayers as a whole.

 

[brad465]

Yes for once I don't think Boris is the immediate problem, so long as (for once) he manages to hold his nerve over the next 4-6 months.

I'm more bothered with the prospect of England being very much the outlier, especially within the UK, as I suspect this would eventually lead to Boris caving in. Likewise I object to Scotland and Wales having such different policies when (1) they demonstrably seem to be producing a worse outcome, and, (2) the cost of such measures are subsidised by UK taxpayers as a whole.

I wouldn't say we're an outlier in a negative way while our reported case rates are not the highest in Europe, and/or while they're not going up to levels deemed concerning. The last round of media reporting on concerning levels was when they were on a long running streak of going up and exceeded 50,000 on one day (it was only 1 in the end) a month ago. The levels remaining high but showing a level trend with fluctuations seems to be getting enough tolerance to prevent anything other than booster shots being implemented/recommended.

If our cases start emulating Austria, Germany and the Netherlands, which have all managed to reach record high daily case numbers, despite being 20 months down the line, that's when we need to worry about Johnson potentially caving in. That said he seems to have been badly hit recently by the corruption scandals and apparent betrayal over levelling up, so the last thing he would want is to annoy backbenchers even more by reintroducing covid measures. It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson would have caved in already were it not for discontent in his party.

 

[greyman42]

I'm not, there really is only so far you can push people before they snap. What did surprise me was that there wasn't more civil unrest in this country. I had honestly expected far more resistance to restrictions here than we actually saw. And to be frank this worries me, have we really become so compliant as a country that we will allow governments to dictate what we can and cannot do with our daily lives? Worrying times indeed.

I think furlough kept a lid on it and the fact that the lockdowns were not heavily enforced as to restricting peoples movements.

 

[DustyBin]

Quit the obsession with testing people would be a good place to start. More tests, more cases.

Well yes it’s a casedemic at this point, and there’s a simple solution as you say!

 

[duncanp]

I wouldn't say we're an outlier in a negative way while our reported case rates are not the highest in Europe, and/or while they're not going up to levels deemed concerning. The last round of media reporting on concerning levels was when they were on a long running streak of going up and exceeded 50,000 on one day (it was only 1 in the end) a month ago. The levels remaining high but showing a level trend with fluctuations seems to be getting enough tolerance to prevent anything other than booster shots being implemented/recommended.

If our cases start emulating Austria, Germany and the Netherlands, which have all managed to reach record high daily case numbers, despite being 20 months down the line, that's when we need to worry about Johnson potentially caving in. That said he seems to have been badly hit recently by the corruption scandals and apparent betrayal over levelling up, so the last thing he would want is to annoy backbenchers even more by reintroducing covid measures. It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson would have caved in already were it not for discontent in his party.

Boris Johnson cannot have another full lockdown (eg. with business closures and stay at home orders) without introducing some kind of furlough scheme Mark 2, and other schemes to compensate affected businesses.

He would also have to introduce Plan B first, and give it some time to work.

If he tried to have a lockdown without such measures, it is not unimaginable that we could see protests of the kind now taking place all over Europe.

In addition, I think people will ignore stay at home orders and restrictions on social gatherings, which will be difficult to enforce anyway.

If you look at the Daily Mail right now, their main headline is about violent protests breaking out in Brussels, and elsewhere in Belgium.

Boris Johnson will want to avoid the same thing happening here, so Plan B will not be introduced unless there is a significant rise in cases, and probably not until the new year.

 

[greyman42]

Boris Johnson will want to avoid the same thing happening here, so Plan B will not be introduced unless there is a significant rise in cases, and probably not until the new year.

The new year is when Operation Rampdown kicks in.

 

[brad465]

Boris Johnson will want to avoid the same thing happening here, so Plan B will not be introduced unless there is a significant rise in cases, and probably not until the new year.

Maybe, but at the same time implementing new measures around the anniversary of lockdown 3, which was widely seen as the bleakest period of covid so far, and also the fact that "it's now 2022 and we're still bothered about covid", together these won't sit well for many.

 

[MattA7]

It appears that the unrest is continuing for a third night.

Covid: Huge protests across Europe over new restrictions

Belgium says 35,000 took part in protests, with unrest in the Netherlands, Austria and Italy.

www.bbc.co.uk

Tens of thousands of people have been marching in the Belgian capital, Brussels, to protest against anti-Covid measures.
Some protesters threw fireworks at police officers, who intervened with tear gas and water cannon.
Demonstrators are mainly opposed to the use of Covid passes, which stops the unvaccinated from entering venues such as restaurants or bars.
This comes after fresh protests in the Netherlands against new lockdown rules.
On Saturday, people hurled fireworks at police and set fire to bicycles in The Hague, one night after protests in Rotterdam turned violent and police fired gunshots.
Thousands of demonstrators also took to the streets in Austria, Croatia and Italy as anger mounted over new curbs.