Autumn refresh for GWR Class 165/166 Turbos

[FGW_DID]

166211

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 1820 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 05/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 1820 departure from Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 05/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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166217

Realtime Trains | 5Q23 1413 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops | 06/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q23 1413 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops on 06/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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Realtime Trains | 5Q81 0849 Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 09/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 0849 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 09/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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Realtime Trains | 5Q70 1507 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 09/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q70 1507 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 09/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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166216 just gone past Reading on 5Q70 SPM to Wolverton.

 

[DannyMich2018]

We went away last week to Dawlish Warren and seen many 165/166s. I've not got the Platform 5 2024 stock book yet and several 165s I seen were presumably former Reading based ones so do they swap often between Reading and St Philiips Marsh? What's the split between the two depots? Many thanks

 

[Siemens Staines]

What's the split between the two depots?

RDG 165104-107,109-114,116,117
SPM 165101-103,108
SPM 166201-221

RDG 165118-128
SPM 165129-137

On refresh/overhaul
Wolverton 166206,216
Doncaster 166217

 

[JN114]

RDG 165104-107,109-114,116,117
SPM 165101-103,108
SPM 166201-221

RDG 165118-128
SPM 165129-137

On refresh/overhaul
Wolverton 166206,216
Doncaster 166217

As an addition,

3x RDG units from the 165118-128 pool see use on “SPM” work each weekend during summer months, going over to Bristol on 3C50 04+50 Oxford UCS to Bristol TM; and returning “home” on 5A96 19+09 SPM to Oxford UCS.

That does open the potential for “wrong” units to end up at wrong depots, but this year there is a more deliberate intention from all concerned to avoid it if at all possible - the maintenance regimes for the two fleets aren’t as aligned as they have been in the past; which makes anything more than very short term loans challenging for the engineering department.

 

[DannyMich2018]

RDG 165104-107,109-114,116,117
SPM 165101-103,108
SPM 166201-221

RDG 165118-128
SPM 165129-137

On refresh/overhaul
Wolverton 166206,216
Doncaster 166217

Thanks very much for the info. Appreciated.

As an addition,

3x RDG units from the 165118-128 pool see use on “SPM” work each weekend during summer months, going over to Bristol on 3C50 04+50 Oxford UCS to Bristol TM; and returning “home” on 5A96 19+09 SPM to Oxford UCS.

That does open the potential for “wrong” units to end up at wrong depots, but this year there is a more deliberate intention from all concerned to avoid it if at all possible - the maintenance regimes for the two fleets aren’t as aligned as they have been in the past; which makes anything more than very short term loans challenging for the engineering department.

Thanks for the detailed info.

 

[Kauntrilla]

Anyone can shed a light what is Train lifeguard and how does it looks like? Thanks

 

[Benjwri]

Anyone can shed a light what is Train lifeguard and how does it looks like? Thanks

Not sure how this relates to Class 165/6's, but it's a piece of metal which is secured in front of the leading wheels which is meant to deflect debris on the track to avoid it causing the train to derail.

 

[Kauntrilla]

Not sure how this relates to Class 165/6's, but it's a piece of metal which is secured in front of the leading wheels which is meant to deflect debris on the track to avoid it causing the train to derail.

Ok thank you mate. Any idea how big is this piece of metal?

 

[FGW_DID]

Ok thank you mate. Any idea how big is this piece of metal?

Picture of the lifeguard on an HST on this link here:

https://www.railengineer.co.uk/carmont-the-age-of-the-train-part-two/

(About 7 photos down)

On the turbos there is also a sacrificial skirt.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Anyone can shed a light what is Train lifeguard and how does it looks like? Thanks

Again an HST but you can see them ahead of the leading wheelset. The 165 is similar but smaller I think.

 

[Laserbeam31]

Having seen more of these refurbished 166s running around now, the ones I've encountered do all seem to have had their carpets removed. Are they all like this now, post-refurb?

As mentioned upthread, this seems like quite a retrograde step given the distances of services on which some of these units are now employed (e.g. Cardiff Central - Portsmouth Harbour).

I do wonder why this ended up happening, particularly seeing as several 166s IIRC had already had new "GWR Green" carpet installed pre-refurb, to replace the (presumably very worn) original FGW carpetting?

It's a shame that the refurb doesn't seem to have included an overhaul of the A/C system, because that's never struck me as being especially effective on the 166s. But I guess it's mainly a cosmetic refresh; for most of the year, that in itself is a big improvement already.

Overall, though, I think they do now look rather smart overall; certainly a massive improvement over their incredibly worn-out pre-refurb state. One nice attention to detail is that the lamp covers for the little pairs of lights which come on above the doors when they open at a station seem to have been replaced. Previously, most of these covers seemed to be either melted (from failed lamps??) or smashed.

 

[The exile]

It's a shame that the refurb doesn't seem to have included an overhaul of the A/C system, because that's never struck me as being especially effective on the 166s. But I guess it's mainly a cosmetic refresh; for most of the year, that in itself is a big improvement already.

Whatever the 165s have now got is working a treat!

 

[Train Boy]

all seem to have had their carpets removed. Are they all like this now, post-refurb?

All bar 166215, which was the first to go through the program on the 166 side.

Whatever the 165s have now got is working a treat!

This is an 'air cooling' system as opposed to air conditioning.

 

[The exile]

All bar 166215, which was the first to go through the program on the 166 side.


This is an 'air cooling' system as opposed to air conditioning.

In which case, rip out the air-con and install air-cooling (assuming that’s possible)

 

[Recessio]

It works a treat if people would stop opening the hopper windows!

 

[3973EXL]

166217

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 1800 Doncaster Works Wabtec to St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh | 19/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 1800 departure from Doncaster Works Wabtec to St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh on 19/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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166219

Realtime Trains | 5Q23 1434 St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh to Doncaster Works Wabtec | 20/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q23 1434 departure from St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh to Doncaster Works Wabtec on 20/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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[LUYMun]

It works a treat if people would stop opening the hopper windows!

Some good old fashioned wind ventilation does the trick. Just a shame some guards in the western region would oppose opening some for passenger comfort when requested…

 

[Recessio]

Some good old fashioned wind ventilation does the trick. Just a shame some guards in the western region would oppose opening some for passenger comfort when requested…

Often I'm on units where you can feel the AC is working, but as half of the windows are open the train is just filling with hot air quicker then the AC can cool it. And presumably the AC then running at maximum for the entire journey because it never reaches its set temperature doesn't help the lifespan of the unit.

I don't know if it's guards opening the windows in the start of service before the AC gets a chance to cool the train, or if passengers are opening them, or if they're just rattling themselves open - but I think leaving the hoppers in was a mistake, when compared to Chiltern 165s

 

[Benjwri]

passengers are opening them

I’ve seen people use their keys to open them quiet a lot on they Henley line.

 

[Laserbeam31]

All bar 166215, which was the first to go through the program on the 166 side.


This is an 'air cooling' system as opposed to air conditioning.

I've seen this distinction come up a few times now in this forum: what exactly is the difference between "air cooling" and "air conditioning"?

I assumed that they both did pretty much the same thing: i.e. pass the air over refrigerated coils, dehumidifying it and cooling it. When I'm on a 165, I can see the chiller unit in the top corner of each saloon dribbling water down the outside of the windows - which I take it to mean that it's cooling and dehumidifying the carriage air (like regular A/C).

Somebody might correct me on this, but I think the 165s were built with no air conditioning at all, when new; hence the more recent installation of air coolers during refurbishment. The 166s, on the other hand, have had A/C right from the start, so I assume there's a reluctance to rip it out and install something new, even though their existing system is much less effective than the newer 165 air cooling.

It works a treat if people would stop opening the hopper windows!

I've definitely been in situations where this is the problem (and on these occasions generally go wandering round the carriage shutting the windows, resulting in the A/C taking effect). On the other hand, I've also been on plenty of 166 services (predominantly on the Cardiff-Portsmouth route) where e.g. two of three carriages have hoppers which are locked shut and in which the A/C is decidedly ... OK ... but where specifically one carriage has all the hopper windows open, and the A/C in that carriage is most certainly not working.

Even when 166s' A/C does actually seem to be "working", it never seems anywhere near as effective as whatever more modern system is on the 165. Was the 166s' A/C always fairly lacklustre, even when it was new?

 

[FGW_DID]

I've seen this distinction come up a few times now in this forum: what exactly is the difference between "air cooling" and "air conditioning"?

I assumed that they both did pretty much the same thing: i.e. pass the air over refrigerated coils, dehumidifying it and cooling it. When I'm on a 165, I can see the chiller unit in the top corner of each saloon dribbling water down the outside of the windows - which I take it to mean that it's cooling and dehumidifying the carriage air (like regular A/C).

Somebody might correct me on this, but I think the 165s were built with no air conditioning at all, when new; hence the more recent installation of air coolers during refurbishment. The 166s, on the other hand, have had A/C right from the start, so I assume there's a reluctance to rip it out and install something new, even though their existing system is much less effective than the newer 165 air cooling.



I've definitely been in situations where this is the problem (and on these occasions generally go wandering round the carriage shutting the windows, resulting in the A/C taking effect). On the other hand, I've also been on plenty of 166 services (predominantly on the Cardiff-Portsmouth route) where e.g. two of three carriages have hoppers which are locked shut and in which the A/C is decidedly ... OK ... but where specifically one carriage has all the hopper windows open, and the A/C in that carriage is most certainly not working.

Even when 166s' A/C does actually seem to be "working", it never seems anywhere near as effective as whatever more modern system is on the 165. Was the 166s' A/C always fairly lacklustre, even when it was new?

Air Cooling does just that, it cools the air and nothing else.
The 165s definitely didn't have anything as built until fitted with the air cooling and the 166s were retro fitted with A/C after they were built.
One of the issues with the 166s is that in warm weather, as the A/C works harder, the engine becomes sluggish and the units get reported by the drivers for low power.

 

[The exile]

The generic descriptions of the differences online seem to suggest that air cooling brings outside air in, cooling it on the way, whereas a/c recirculates air already inside (presumably only in part as we all asphyxiate eventually). However it also states that air cooling is cheaper to operate, which surprises me as I would have thought that after a while aircon would have less work to do. Whatever - the gubbins on the 165s is much more effective!

 

[Snow1964]

The generic descriptions of the differences online seem to suggest that air cooling brings outside air in, cooling it on the way, whereas a/c recirculates air already inside (presumably only in part as we all asphyxiate eventually). However it also states that air cooling is cheaper to operate, which surprises me as I would have thought that after a while aircon would have less work to do. Whatever - the gubbins on the 165s is much more effective!

Air cooling should be cheaper to run, it just passes air over something cold, whereas air conditioning does that and also has an evaporator to remove humidity. The 165s can be cooler but muggier inside.

The problem is too many units are pushed into service with it not working properly in all carriages, and the regularly open windows don't help.

Yes same depot that fails to maintain the train cooling also maintains the brakes, but they seem to apply double standards to their maintenance, fix it if safety critical, often don't bother if it is for comfort of those paying their wages.

Unfortunately my local line has mix of 158, 165, 166 so I know how poor these aging trains are.

 

[Recessio]

Air cooling should be cheaper to run, it just passes air over something cold, whereas air conditioning does that and also has an evaporator to remove humidity. The 165s can be cooler but muggier inside.

The problem is too many units are pushed into service with it not working properly in all carriages, and the regularly open windows don't help.

Yes same depot that fails to maintain the train cooling also maintains the brakes, but they seem to apply double standards to their maintenance, fix it if safety critical, often don't bother if it is for comfort of those paying their wages.

Unfortunately my local line has mix of 158, 165, 166 so I know how poor these aging trains are.

I believe air cooling is also what cars tend to have, rather than full humidity control.

 

[Train Boy]

On the subject of the refresh programme, based on recent posts I make it that the 19th & 20th Class 166s, 166206 and 166216 respectively, are currently at Wolverton.

This makes 166220 the 21st and final unit to go through the programme which should replace 166206, which I would imagine is due back imminently.


Edited to reflect info from FGW_DID. (I had mistaken the order 206 and 216 had gone to Wolverton.)

 

[3973EXL]

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 0955 Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 29/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 0955 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 29/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[FGW_DID]

166220 will replace 166206 at Wolverton.

Although 166220 will be the final unit through the refresh program, there will be a small number of units returning to Wolverton for work arising, presumably that work being outside the scope of the refresh program and would have impeded timescales.

 

[3973EXL]

30/07
VSTP 5Q60 1200 St Philips - Wolverton
166220

Realtime Trains | 5Q60 1200 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 30/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q60 1200 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 30/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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166219

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 1856 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 02/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 1856 departure from Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 02/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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166215

Realtime Trains | 5Q23 1413 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops | 03/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q23 1413 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops on 03/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[3973EXL]

166216

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 0940 Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 17/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 0940 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 17/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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166215

Realtime Trains | 5Q70 0700 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 17/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q70 0700 departure from Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 17/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[ENC Rail]

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 0940 Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 17/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 0940 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 17/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q70 0700 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 17/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q70 0700 departure from Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 17/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 0940 Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 17/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 0940 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 17/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q70 0700 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 17/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q70 0700 departure from Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 17/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

How do you find out about these workings (without just checking RTT). Thanks.