Avanti Ticket Checks

[sonic2009]

Three times i've recently travelled

Birmingham - Crewe
Crewe - Liverpool and return
Manchester - Crewe and return

And not once has my ticket been checked or seen the guard come through?

Are they still in a dispute - i remember seeing something recently regarding scanning?

 

[JamieL]

Likewise on the Euston to Glasgow run. Done the trip several times this year and no checks even in First Class.

 

[AgeoftheTrain7]

Interesting! I've known Avanti to only bother doing ticket checks on the longer sections of route.

For example, travelling between Manchester and Crewe relatively often, I've heard announcements saying 'a full ticket inspection will take place after Crewe'.

I'm sure there would be at least one ticket check on a full route e.g., London to Glasgow, but suspect that the higher-revenue sections and longer-distance between stations are prioritised.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I guess it probably doesn't help if there is only one TM checking the entire train, particularly if it is a busy service. I'd guess it must take a while to check 9 or 11 carriages worth of tickets on a Pendolino.

 

[hozza94]

Been doing Euston - Coventry quite regularly for the last few months. If there was no enforcement at Euston, and short-staffing at Coventry leaving gates open, then my ticket wouldn't be checked at all.

 

[Hadders]

Been doing Euston - Coventry quite regularly for the last few months. If there was no enforcement at Euston, and short-staffing at Coventry leaving gates open, then my ticket wouldn't be checked at all.

So your ticket was checked then? There's no point in checking tickets onboard if they've been checked at Euston. The potential intermediate stations between Euston and Coventry are Watford Junction, Milton Keynes and Rugby which all have ticket barriers.

 

[matt]

Rugby ticket barrier seems to be staffed a lot more recently. Even late at night there are staff on duty at the barrier.

 

[JamieL]

So your ticket was checked then? There's no point in checking tickets onboard if they've been checked at Euston. The potential intermediate stations between Euston and Coventry are Watford Junction, Milton Keynes and Rugby which all have ticket barriers.

Surely there is so that upgraders in Standard Premium and First Class are charged? Furthermore, automatic ticket barriers don't check railcards.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Furthermore, automatic ticket barriers don't check railcards.

Some on here would quite possibly claim that certain automatic ticket barriers around the network are programmed to reject all railcard discounted tickets (so that they then have to be manually checked).

 

[KeithMcC]

Some on here would quite possibly claim that certain automatic ticket barriers around the network are programmed to reject all railcard discounted tickets (so that they then have to be manually checked).

My ticket was rejected at the Waterloo Barrier a little while ago, and the person who checked it manually told me that they were programmed so that all tickets only valid with a railcard were being rejected. But he still didn't ask for my railcard!

 

[JamieL]

Some on here would quite possibly claim that certain automatic ticket barriers around the network are programmed to reject all railcard discounted tickets (so that they then have to be manually checked).

Faced with a massive scrum trying to get through the ticket barriers at Euston (etc), I can't image many inspectors are going to hold back the hordes to check railcards.

 

[Kite159]

My ticket was rejected at the Waterloo Barrier a little while ago, and the person who checked it manually told me that they were programmed so that all tickets only valid with a railcard were being rejected. But he still didn't ask for my railcard!

Waterloo barriers are a bit like that at times, only time I get asked for my railcard is when there are RPIs about. The contractor staff just open them up without asking.

As for Avanti I did Glasgow - Wigan a couple weeks back, got checked between Penrith & Oxenholme. Also Manchester to London, checked around Nuneaton.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Did Carlisle -> Penrith and Penrith -> Preston with Avanti yesterday afternoon. Tickets weren't checked on either.

 

[tetartoid]

Rugby ticket barrier seems to be staffed a lot more recently. Even late at night there are staff on duty at the barrier.

Yes I have noticed this - the smaller entrance/exit used to be open from about 7.30pm each evening. So combined with no ticket checks at Euston (which was almost always the case for London Northwestern, at least), no ticket checks on the train (very often the case) and open barriers at Rugby, I have done countless journeys with no ticket checks at all (although I always held a valid ticket). Now there is always someone on that barrier at Rugby, even late at night. Perhaps it is a post-Covid thing or they have realised that you could do a pretty substantial journey with no ticket checks.

 

[Merseysider]

Trains down from Edinburgh seem to be the only ones my ticket gets consistently checked on - either shortly after leaving or just after Carlisle.

Otherwise, ticket barriers aside, I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve had it checked onboard in the last year.

 

[Birmingham]

Yes I have noticed this - the smaller entrance/exit used to be open from about 7.30pm each evening. So combined with no ticket checks at Euston (which was almost always the case for London Northwestern, at least), no ticket checks on the train (very often the case) and open barriers at Rugby, I have done countless journeys with no ticket checks at all (although I always held a valid ticket). Now there is always someone on that barrier at Rugby, even late at night. Perhaps it is a post-Covid thing or they have realised that you could do a pretty substantial journey with no ticket checks.

What is the protocol at Avanti gatelines for those arriving with no ticket? Just made to purchase the ticket they would have in the first place or details taken etc.? Am aware PF not an option (unless issued by other TOC staff off their arrivals) as Avanti doesn’t run such a scheme.

 

[Watershed]

What is the protocol at Avanti gatelines for those arriving with no ticket? Just made to purchase the ticket they would have in the first place or details taken etc.? Am aware PF not an option (unless issued by other TOC staff off their arrivals) as Avanti doesn’t run such a scheme.

Avanti don't issue Penalty Fares but they do sometimes prosecute. However, unless there are RPIs present, my understanding is that the standard procedure is just to sell a ticket (possibly undiscounted if there were ticketing facilities at the starting station).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

..my understanding is that the standard procedure is just to sell a ticket (possibly undiscounted if there were ticketing facilities at the starting station).

Some undiscounted Anytime Single fares can seem, to some, like a Penalty Fare.

 

[Kite159]

Avanti don't issue Penalty Fares but they do sometimes prosecute. However, unless there are RPIs present, my understanding is that the standard procedure is just to sell a ticket (possibly undiscounted if there were ticketing facilities at the starting station).

"Ah yes, I travelled from Long Buckby and the TVM is broken again"

 

[RailWonderer]

On my last 4 Avanti journeys since August I've only had my ticket checked once and it was leaving Euston. That's where most of my Avanti tickets get checked, they rarely do on the journeys into London, especially when they are busy. Strange my experience is different to others here, I think it really is random with no pattern to where they like to check more often.

Also why doesn't Avanti run a penalty fare scheme? To me it's a huge missed opportunity.

 

[Watershed]

On my last 4 Avanti journeys since August I've only had my ticket checked once and it was leaving Euston. That's where most of my Avanti tickets get checked, they rarely do on the journeys into London, especially when they are busy. Strange my experience is different to others here, I think it really is random with no pattern to where they like to check more often.

Also why doesn't Avanti run a penalty fare scheme? To me it's a huge missed opportunity.

Penalty Fare schemes were originally intended for short journeys on commuter trains where it was impractical for any guard or RPI to come through the train checking tickets between each station.

They have since been rolled out much more widely, including to lines and operators where they're wildly inappropriate in my view - e.g. GWR and EMR's Intercity services. Greater Anglia's London-Norwich services are also a questionable application of a Penalty Fares scheme, particularly with the guard having no dispatch duties under normal operation.

 

[hozza94]

Some on here would quite possibly claim that certain automatic ticket barriers around the network are programmed to reject all railcard discounted tickets (so that they then have to be manually checked).

And to add details to my scenario. My tickets do have Railcard entitlement and not ONCE had my Railcard ever been checked. Not by Staff, not stopped by barrier, never had to open my digital Railcard out.

 

[mangyiscute]

And to add details to my scenario. My tickets do have Railcard entitlement and not ONCE had my Railcard ever been checked. Not by Staff, not stopped by barrier, never had to open my digital Railcard out.

is this on like any train ever? I will say that this happens pretty rarely to me (i do think that like I say have a 16-25 railcard and I look in that age range so they assume i'm fine) but I am occasionally checked.
Also worth noting that for example when Reading festival is on, there are always checks of any child or railcard tickets at reading station and I'm sure the same happens at big events across the country

 

[VideozVideoz]

On my last Avanti journey between Stockport and Crewe the other week, my ticket was checked. I would say that’s not a common occurrence from past experience

 

[Skiddaw]

I'd say that my ticket is checked around 50% of the time when travelling on an Avanti service as opposed to close on 100% of the time if I'm on a TPE train, even if only between Penrith-Carlise.

 

[Falcon1200]

Travelling between Glasgow and London my experience on Avanti is that tickets are checked once by each Train Manager, ie somewhere between Glasgow and Preston, and then Preston and London. But it would of course be impossible to check all tickets on the short journey sections of these trains, eg Carlisle/Penrith and Preston/Wigan/Warrington!

 

[Jimini]

I had 2 x free standard premium upgrades last Saturday, not a member of staff in sight on either. Have to say, the hit rate in SP would be roughly 50/50 based on my experiences between Euston and Coventry.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had 2 x free standard premium upgrades last Saturday, not a member of staff in sight on either. Have to say, the hit rate in SP would be roughly 50/50 based on my experiences between Euston and Coventry.

I've been asked to pay for 50% of my SP journeys so far. I do wonder if the staff want it to fail sometimes...

(If there was a SP Off Peak Return at the sum of the Standard ticket and the two upgrades I'd probably buy that and they'd get it every time - I'm not doing Advances - though that said given how much Standard has been improved in the refurb I might well stop upgrading anyway)

 

[Benjwri]

So your ticket was checked then? There's no point in checking tickets onboard if they've been checked at Euston. The potential intermediate stations between Euston and Coventry are Watford Junction, Milton Keynes and Rugby which all have ticket barriers.

Although that's forgetting all those stations have interchanges with stations which don't have ticket barriers, it's not impossible for someone to get to them without going through a barrier.

 

[Hadders]

Although that's forgetting all those stations have interchanges with stations which don't have ticket barriers, it's not impossible for someone to get to them without going through a barrier.

No ticket check will ever be 100% secure. A balance has to be struck between revenue loss, staff time taken to undertake the check and passenger inconvenience. As a passenger I wouldn’t take kindly to a ticket check at the Euston barrier only for another check before Rugby just in case someone had boarded at Cheddington and changed into an Avanti train at Milton Keynes, especially if this was to happen frequently.