Avanti West Coast cancellations

[JamieL]

what I don't understand is why it's beyond the RMT to dig the dirt on him and if they can't find any make some real juicy stuff up just to get it on the news for 3 nights running and he'd be gone the next day.

Not with this lot! It would just be a badge of honour.

 

[NORTHERNSOUL]

It would appear that way, because apart from an 'all out' strike there aren't really any escalation options left from the Union side.

Explain for me then why just calling out the Staff in the ROC.s in an all-out strike and the rest of the union paying them to stay out wouldn't have the same or bigger effect than the current action ?

I think that in any number of ways that would bring things to a head a lot quicker than the current action

And if i had one word of advice if i was the RMT i.d stick to midweek strike days as affecting people's work schedule is one thing but affecting their leisure activities like getting to the match is another thing altogether.

 

[Starmill]

Explain for me then why just calling out the Staff in the ROC.s in an all-out strike and the rest of the union paying them to stay out wouldn't have the same or bigger effect than the current action ?

I think that in any number of ways that would bring things to a head a lot quicker than the current action

And if i had one word of advice if i was the RMT i.d stick to midweek strike days as affecting people's work schedule is one thing but affecting their leisure activities like getting to the match is another thing altogether.

If you re-read the post it says that an all-out strike is an escalation. I'd agree with it being a fairly likely one also.

Some staff in ROCs will be represented by unions other than RMT.

 

[NORTHERNSOUL]

With an 80-seat majority, the Tory government (whoever is leader) is safe until the 5 years are up in 2024.
Truss/Sunak will have a honeymoon period before they are backed into a corner like Boris.
It will get interesting if there is a new Transport SoS.
Wendy Morton has hardly got her feet under the table as Rail minister.

I don't agree. yes if it was Sunak and he kept dishing out the dosh he would be safe till it stopped but if Truss wins and sticks by what she's said she's going to/not going to she.ll be gone by Christmas.

If Labour really wants them out they.ll give their support to a utility bill strike where people pay at the rates of Dec 2020 and dont pay the rest of your bill on the basis that you simply cant afford it but pay 50 quid into a fighting fund to support anybody who gets picked on.

Its clever really as youd then end up with the energy market back in public ownership without having to pay to do it.

 

[Bald Rick]

If you re-read the post it says that an all-out strike is an escalation. I'd agree with it being a fairly likely one also.

Some staff in ROCs will be represented by unions other than RMT.

And signalling staff in ROCs have, let’s be honest, a different employer than station / on board staff, so f they were called on an all out strike to defend the TOC staff, that would be illegal.

 

[Starmill]

Let the market set pay.

The government is a monopsonist of public sector work. The review bodies are expressly intended to link the market to the government's pay rates.

And signalling staff in ROCs have, let’s be honest, a different employer than station / on board staff, so f they were called on an all out strike to defend the TOC staff, that would be illegal.

Indeed. And in the long term it's not even clear the RMT grades at Network Rail have an aligned interest with RMT grades at train operators. Sure there are lots of similarities, but if there were an acceptable deal for signallers or maintenance staff it would be likely that they would want to take it, and not be tied into a dispute related to the roles of station and onboard staff.

 

[ymbongo]

I'm sure all those passengers who have endured the weeks of chaos and cancellations will be overjoyed to read about this:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...hester-news/anger-as-train-firm-boss-24805683

The boss of scandal-hit train firm Avanti's parent company has been awarded a £1m share bonus while passengers suffer chaos on the railways and strikes continue, it's been revealed.

Travellers on the West Coast main line battled a stripped-back timetable this week - and Andy Burnham, the Mayor of Greater Manchester, said he would ask the new Prime Minister to strip Avanti West Coast of its contract if it doesn't produce an acceptable plan to improve their service.

Yet FirstGroup chief executive Graham Sutherland was given 972,590 shares on Thursday under the firm’s long-term incentive plan, reports The Mirror. He will be able to cash in the bonus after five years, “subject to satisfaction of performance conditions and continued employment”.

The share price for FirstGroup, which owns 70% of Avanti, was £1.10 today - suggesting the haul could be worth just over £1m if the value holds up. Separately Mr Sutherland bought 100,000 shares for £115,000 on Wednesday. Chief Financial Officer Ryan Mangold was also awarded 1,003,226 shares under two long-term bonus plans, which take three to five years to cash in subject to conditions.

In response Mr Burnham told the Mirror: “If these bosses had any decency they would read the room and hand these bonuses back. Passengers who have been forced to stand on packed services or left behind on platforms will be furious at these payments.

Not great timing, it has to be said, even if it was something already agreed.

 

[Statto]

Seems like there's issues between Birmingham New Street & Wolverhampton, trains being diverted via Bescot

 

[voyagerdude220]

Seems like there's issues between Birmingham New Street & Wolverhampton, trains being diverted via Bescot

1F54 broken down (18:04 Birmingham New Street to Liverpool Lime Street) standing at Smethwick Galton Bridge with a train fault.

 

[Mag_seven]

A reminder that this thread is for the discussion of the issues surrounding Avanti West Coast Cancellations.

Thanks

 

[CryoraptorA303]

Well, I went up to Coventry 2 weeks ago, and both going and coming back the train before mine had been cancelled, making them packed. I consider myself to be extremely lucky that the cancelled service both times was the one before mine. I think coming back, the 2nd train before mine got cancelled, and the one before got stuck at Wolverhampton or Dudley for whatever reason and was over 30 minutes late. Mine was miraculously only 2 minutes late, but was even more packed than the one coming that had a service cancelled directly before. For context, this was on a Friday and a Monday, and so should've been safe from the non-existent weekend service.

This can't go on. If Avanti doesn't somehow get its act together, and the new PM's administration gives enough of a monkeys, the 'Avanti' brand will be gone by Christmas, and good riddance if it is. FirstGroup will go down in history as completely ruining the legacy of what was likely the most successful and respected franchise in the privatisation era. What was a great opportunity to capitalise on the stylish Italian Pendolino with the Italian brand was chucked up the wall. For me at least, LNWR is now the undisputed king of the WCML and the preferred choice for doing almost anything south of Crewe. I feel bad for those north of Liverpool that don't have access to it and have to rely on either Avanti or the just as bad, coincidentally also FirstGroup, TPE, which won't last much longer than Avanti if it also doesn't get it together. The next Labour government we have will likely renationalise most of the network, citing the increasing number of failing operators and spiraling ticket prices. The future of the British rail network will likely consist of a largely nationalised railway, with only the OACs continuing to operate under private ownership. In principal I am for this, however it must be managed better than last time, otherwise it'll just be British Rail: The Sequel. Railway nationalisation will have to come as part of a wider restructuring of this country and its domestic affairs, and may be a good selling point for said much-needed reforms, as the majority of the public are not content with the railways in their current state, with good reason.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I'm sure all those passengers who have endured the weeks of chaos and cancellations will be overjoyed to read about this:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...hester-news/anger-as-train-firm-boss-24805683



Not great timing, it has to be said, even if it was something already agreed.

If he had any moral fibre he would waive it but then in this country the rich just don't get it they believe they are entitled.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What was a great opportunity to capitalise on the stylish Italian Pendolino with the Italian brand was chucked up the wall.

This is the killer. The brand presented so many opportunities to capitalise on the way British people idolise European high speed rail, even if it isn't quite as rosy over there as it first appears. It's utterly tragic that these obvious opportunities were missed - hand stitched grey leather seats (the Voyager ones fitted by Virgin are actually exactly what I'd have in mind - I know not everyone likes leather but it is the look), Illy espresso, pasta at the buffet (excellent microwave meals there), Moretti on tap in 1st in real glasses, maybe even the Le Frecce brand. Pininfarina designed interiors (SBB do it!). "Travel with a bit of Italian flair". A little bit of what's best about Italy while going to Birmingham.

But oh, no. It's just been dross from day one, and it turns out they've also been systematically hacking off their staff, too. I'll give them that the Standard seats might be nicer, but what's with the drab blue and mucky white headrests?

Truly the worst TOC since Connex. Absolutely no thought whatsoever has gone into what could have been made of the UK's - arguably Europe's - premier InterCity railway. I've criticised LNR for being a bit slapdash compared with LM, and that cross Birmingham working was stupid (but thankfully won't return), but Avanti has been systematically destroyed in a way well in excess of even that misadventure.

 

[craigybagel]

The only snag is the gov are going to have to, at some point, wake up to the fact that they’re now approaching the point in the cycle when the need to start thinking about the next general election. The change of leader is only going to increase calls for one as history shows mid-term leader changes aren’t really liked. On top of that there’s a mountain of other issues.

In short, this government is not popular, and they really can’t afford to continue pissing *everyone* off, which is what they seem to be achieving pretty comprehensively at the moment.

I think in many ways in this country we're facing a race against time - to see how much damage we can endure before the current shower get voted out in 2024. But I'll leave it there as that's probably going off topic - only to say that if the statement from RMT is correct, the Avanti disruption is not going to end any time soon.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think in many ways in this country we're facing a race against time - to see how much damage we can endure before the current shower get voted out in 2024. But I'll leave it there as that's probably going off topic - only to say that if the statement from RMT is correct, the Avanti disruption is not going to end any time soon.

Ticket offices are neither here nor there, as there's no real disruption to operations that would be caused even if they went all-out. So I don't doubt this will happen and realistically the relevant Union (TSSA?) won't be able to do a lot about it.

The alleged proposed traincrew grades - that'll paralyse the network, not just Avanti, if they try it.

 

[Howardh]

I think in many ways in this country we're facing a race against time - to see how much damage we can endure before the current shower get voted out in 2024. But I'll leave it there as that's probably going off topic - only to say that if the statement from RMT is correct, the Avanti disruption is not going to end any time soon.

I often wonder if the Tory policy is to slash and burn. Just why? Wouldn't any competent government want a successful, reliable, cheap railway? After all Thatcher loved the channel tunnel, didn't someone tell the Tories it was rail only?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I often wonder if the Tory policy is to slash and burn. Just why? Wouldn't any competent government want a successful, reliable, cheap railway? After all Thatcher loved the channel tunnel, didn't someone tell the Tories it was rail only?

Thatcher always had the sense not to muck with British Rail - it was the one thing she was set against privatising. It was Major who did the damage.

 

[CryoraptorA303]

I often wonder if the Tory policy is to slash and burn. Just why? Wouldn't any competent government want a successful, reliable, cheap railway? After all Thatcher loved the channel tunnel, didn't someone tell the Tories it was rail only?

This suggests that the Tories are in any way a competent government when it comes to essentially anything that isn't making themselves and their upper-class mates richer. In times of crisis they continue to cut public services time and time again. When will people learn to stop electing politicians who are actively going against their best interests?

 

[Efini92]

This is the killer. The brand presented so many opportunities to capitalise on the way British people idolise European high speed rail, even if it isn't quite as rosy over there as it first appears. It's utterly tragic that these obvious opportunities were missed - hand stitched grey leather seats (the Voyager ones fitted by Virgin are actually exactly what I'd have in mind - I know not everyone likes leather but it is the look), Illy espresso, pasta at the buffet (excellent microwave meals there), Moretti on tap in 1st in real glasses, maybe even the Le Frecce brand. Pininfarina designed interiors (SBB do it!). "Travel with a bit of Italian flair". A little bit of what's best about Italy while going to Birmingham.

But oh, no. It's just been dross from day one, and it turns out they've also been systematically hacking off their staff, too. I'll give them that the Standard seats might be nicer, but what's with the drab blue and mucky white headrests?

Truly the worst TOC since Connex. Absolutely no thought whatsoever has gone into what could have been made of the UK's - arguably Europe's - premier InterCity railway. I've criticised LNR for being a bit slapdash compared with LM, and that cross Birmingham working was stupid (but thankfully won't return), but Avanti has been systematically destroyed in a way well in excess of even that misadventure.

Can we have peroni as well?

 

[CryoraptorA303]

Can we have peroni as well?

Nah, moretti is the much better Italian lager

 

[Jimini]

Nah, moretti is the much better Italian lager

Agreed

 

[52290]

Nah, moretti is the much better Italian lager

The Moretti available in this country is brewed in Manchester. It's about as Italian as Pizza Express.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The Moretti available in this country is brewed in Manchester. It's about as Italian as Pizza Express.

As are most global Lager brands sold in the uk but people are easily manipulated in this country into believing anything

 

[GordonT]

You do occasionally get spectacularly delayed trains in Italy so I suppose in that respect they have kept the faith.

 

[Agent_Squash]

You do occasionally get spectacularly delayed trains in Italy so I suppose in that respect they have kept the faith.

Indeed, the departure board at Euston the other night was the closest I've ever seen to Florence a few months ago!

(picture shows departure board at Florence station with some spectacular delays)


The more I think about Avanti, I remember the glossy PR that recognised what they were taking over was good. There was none of the ‘step change’ rubbish that normally comes with franchises - didn’t expect that it would mean that everything would fall apart with the Wilkinson efficiency special.

And the loss of reliable service is having a tourist impact too. Windermere branch trains definitely seem quieter this year when I’ve been on them.

 

[Carlisle]

but people are easily manipulated in this country into believing anything

That’ll be why Grant Shapps, Eddie Dempsey, Mick Lynch & Andrew Haines, are all trying their hands in the media circus attempting to come out on top, where’s Sir Bob, Sir Peter or Chris Green when ya need them ?

 

[D6130]

t makes me so bloody angry. The WCML had huge amounts spent on it, taxpayer money. For years it worked well. Yes there were some things that were ridiculous under Virgin. The peak pricing and the Euston stampede being the main 2 for me, but generally, it worked. Every day thousands of people travelling at speed for work, to see family and friends, for holidays, not using cars. Massive increase in passenger numbers.

The whole thing has fallen apart because an idiot DfT appointed the wrong party, even though we all know exactly how bad Worst tend to be. Horrible little company. The DfT has then compounded the problem by focussing on completely the wrong oversight. Treasury has then compounded the issue by not understanding how important the line is to economic activity and prioritising getting involved in what it does not know about.

Now that heavily invested in infrastructure is running a pathetic turn up and hope shambles that, let’s be clear about this, wouldn’t have been allowed to happen in 99% of other countries. Give me one other example of a prime national infrastructure being allowed to slip so far so fast, anywhere in the world.

Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow are 4 of our biggest cities. Yet they are effectively without a functioning railway. The Government couldn’t give a toss, because it itself is just a bunch of absolute amateurs with zero skill and a lot of vacuous hot air. It does not even cross their tiny little minds that they should shut up and do some actual work for the people that elected them. They are too busy having some sort of freak show beauty parade in what is meant to be a politics free August.

Let’s face it, this is not the only area of total breakdown in public services. The country has got the country it asked for by prioritising entirely the wrong things over the last 5 years. Whilst being completely distracted by splitting the country down the middle, loads of really important stuff has fallen down the cracks.

The worst generation of leadership this country has ever been subject to. They say an era gets the leadership it deserves….

I couldn't agree more!

Ever. We have never had such blatant failure to be in way across a brief and get away with it, or an ability to lie without come back. Nor have we had Ministers routinely in position for less time than a temporary Christmas worker. Nor have we ever had 3 PM’s in a row booted out by their own party nor have we ever had 3 PM’s in a row selected by a party membership that is only a little bit above the SNP’s, nor have we ever had a Government that is so rude and dishonest to the very electorate it is meant to serve.

Labour’s filing cabinet must be absolutely overflowing with damning images, quotes, NAO reports and performance and delivery figures at this point.

God knows what these guys would organise in a brewery. I wouldn’t employ them to clean my bike.

This.

The Moretti available in this country is brewed in Manchester. It's about as Italian as Pizza Express.

Correct....and the Moretti available in Italy is also brewed by Heineken - in one of their six Italian chemical factories!

 

[gazzaa2]

Well, I went up to Coventry 2 weeks ago, and both going and coming back the train before mine had been cancelled, making them packed. I consider myself to be extremely lucky that the cancelled service both times was the one before mine. I think coming back, the 2nd train before mine got cancelled, and the one before got stuck at Wolverhampton or Dudley for whatever reason and was over 30 minutes late. Mine was miraculously only 2 minutes late, but was even more packed than the one coming that had a service cancelled directly before. For context, this was on a Friday and a Monday, and so should've been safe from the non-existent weekend service.

This can't go on. If Avanti doesn't somehow get its act together, and the new PM's administration gives enough of a monkeys, the 'Avanti' brand will be gone by Christmas, and good riddance if it is. FirstGroup will go down in history as completely ruining the legacy of what was likely the most successful and respected franchise in the privatisation era. What was a great opportunity to capitalise on the stylish Italian Pendolino with the Italian brand was chucked up the wall. For me at least, LNWR is now the undisputed king of the WCML and the preferred choice for doing almost anything south of Crewe. I feel bad for those north of Liverpool that don't have access to it and have to rely on either Avanti or the just as bad, coincidentally also FirstGroup, TPE, which won't last much longer than Avanti if it also doesn't get it together. The next Labour government we have will likely renationalise most of the network, citing the increasing number of failing operators and spiraling ticket prices. The future of the British rail network will likely consist of a largely nationalised railway, with only the OACs continuing to operate under private ownership. In principal I am for this, however it must be managed better than last time, otherwise it'll just be British Rail: The Sequel. Railway nationalisation will have to come as part of a wider restructuring of this country and its domestic affairs, and may be a good selling point for said much-needed reforms, as the majority of the public are not content with the railways in their current state, with good reason.

The problem with nationalisation is trusting governments who couldn't run a bath (much of the railway is already in government hands) and privatisation is trusting private firms to deliver for the passenger rather than for shareholders. At least Virgin did a good job at least for a while managing that route.

 

[CryoraptorA303]

The problem with nationalisation is trusting governments who couldn't run a bath (much of the railway is already in government hands) and privatisation is trusting private firms to deliver for the passenger rather than for shareholders. At least Virgin did a good job at least for a while managing that route.

Agreed, which is why if the railways are to be nationalised again, which currently seems to be a likely eventuality, with more franchises failing and being taken back into public operation and a highly likely Labour or centre-left coalition around New year's 2025, who since Corbyn times has explicitly outlined that it wants to renationalise the network, it has to be done as part of a wider wave of British reform, or it will just go down the toilet like BR did and be crippled with the problems other public services have been suffering since late blairite times. In almost all centrist to left wing thinking, a national railway is a sensible idea, and most of the rest of Europe would agree, but this country has a habit of not correctly funding big public services, even under Labour. At least half of BR's tenure was under Labour, and it was no less in the toilet in those times than under the periodic tory rule. It's not the tories or the neoliberalist ideals this government operates under that needs to change, its the attitude of the British public towards funding public services, and political infrastructure, that have to change if the railways, and eventually other national services like the NHS, are going to survive the next couple decades in their current state.

 

[irish_rail]

Agreed, which is why if the railways are to be nationalised again, which currently seems to be a likely eventuality, with more franchises failing and being taken back into public operation and a highly likely Labour or centre-left coalition around New year's 2025, who since Corbyn times has explicitly outlined that it wants to renationalise the network, it has to be done as part of a wider wave of British reform, or it will just go down the toilet like BR did and be crippled with the problems other public services have been suffering since late blairite times. In almost all centrist to left wing thinking, a national railway is a sensible idea, and most of the rest of Europe would agree, but this country has a habit of not correctly funding big public services, even under Labour. At least half of BR's tenure was under Labour, and it was no less in the toilet in those times than under the periodic tory rule. It's not the tories or the neoliberalist ideals this government operates under that needs to change, its the attitude of the British public towards funding public services, and political infrastructure, that have to change if the railways, and eventually other national services like the NHS, are going to survive the next couple decades in their current state.

Starmer has said Labour WONT renationalise the railways.