Avanti West Coast performance statistics

[Oxfordblues]

I'm concerned that Avanti West Coast appear to be manipulating their performance statistics to make them appear less dreadful than they really are.

For example: today's 1S78 15:30 Euston-Glasgow departed on time, but arrived at Rugby 98 minutes late at 17:55 and was then cancelled. The same train then formed 1S82 16:30 Euston-Glasgow starting from Rugby and departing at 18:05, 48 minutes late.

So statistically 50 minutes was "recovered" and the 98 minutes' delay miraculously reduced to 48 minutes! As I type this 1S82 is still less than an hour late at Lancaster, so Avanti will only be liable for a 50% refund on a single ticket as opposed to 100% if the delay was 60 minutes or more. By this slight-of-hand Avanti will save a lot of money on delay-repay. Does this sort of thing happen very often?

 

[gordonthemoron]

I wouldn’t trust Avanti as far as I could throw them

 

[Merseysider]

The statistics they’ve published make for pretty damning reading.

For example, just 29% of Manchester services and 25% of “fast” Scotland services arrived on time or early over the last month.

I’ve never seen National Express coaches so busy. And yes, I abandoned Avanti long ago

 

[deltic]

I'm concerned that Avanti West Coast appear to be manipulating their performance statistics to make them appear less dreadful than they really are.

For example: today's 1S78 15:30 Euston-Glasgow departed on time, but arrived at Rugby 98 minutes late at 17:55 and was then cancelled. The same train then formed 1S82 16:30 Euston-Glasgow starting from Rugby and departing at 18:05, 48 minutes late.

So statistically 50 minutes was "recovered" and the 98 minutes' delay miraculously reduced to 48 minutes! As I type this 1S82 is still less than an hour late at Lancaster, so Avanti will only be liable for a 50% refund on a single ticket as opposed to 100% if the delay was 60 minutes or more. By this slight-of-hand Avanti will save a lot of money on delay-repay. Does this sort of thing happen very often?

The 15.30 was cancelled so delay repay would be payable on that
The 16.30 was cancelled between Euston and Rugby so delay repay would be payable on that.
The passengers travelling on the 16.30 ex Euston which now started at Rugby and who boarded at intermediate stations can also claim delay repay so not sure if there is any saving to Aventi

 

[Starmill]

As others have suggested, doing this doesn't affect delay compensation. This is calculated according to how late the journey was, not how late the train was.

 

[philosopher]

The statistics they’ve published make for pretty damning reading.

For example, just 29% of Manchester services and 25% of “fast” Scotland services arrived on time or early over the last month.

I’ve never seen National Express coaches so busy. And yes, I abandoned Avanti long ago

46% of North Wales services being cancelled in the last period is particularly shocking!

 

[Carntyne]

If it didn't operate its full journey, it'll fail PPM, so 2x PPM failures.

 

[Horizon22]

I'm concerned that Avanti West Coast appear to be manipulating their performance statistics to make them appear less dreadful than they really are.

For example: today's 1S78 15:30 Euston-Glasgow departed on time, but arrived at Rugby 98 minutes late at 17:55 and was then cancelled. The same train then formed 1S82 16:30 Euston-Glasgow starting from Rugby and departing at 18:05, 48 minutes late.

So statistically 50 minutes was "recovered" and the 98 minutes' delay miraculously reduced to 48 minutes! As I type this 1S82 is still less than an hour late at Lancaster, so Avanti will only be liable for a 50% refund on a single ticket as opposed to 100% if the delay was 60 minutes or more. By this slight-of-hand Avanti will save a lot of money on delay-repay. Does this sort of thing happen very often?

For anyone on the original train they’d still be delayed by the amount of time. They’ve had been terminated at Rugby and got the next service (starting from Rugby). It would be compared to the booked departure time.

People booked on 1S82 at Rugby or north would have been delayed by the original amount so no change there to what actually happened. Anyone south of Rugby saw a cancellation.

Now whether Delay Repay accounts for this is a different matter in the automated system at a first attempt but those on 1S78 are still entitled to the “real” delay.

This is effectively 2 performance failures of PPM so it’s hardly fiddling figures (this reads like a crew issue to me). The alternative was probably a 98 late train and a cancellation. This is two part-cancellations and a 48 minute delay. So neither is great!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I'm concerned that Avanti West Coast appear to be manipulating their performance statistics to make them appear less dreadful than they really are.

For example: today's 1S78 15:30 Euston-Glasgow departed on time, but arrived at Rugby 98 minutes late at 17:55 and was then cancelled. The same train then formed 1S82 16:30 Euston-Glasgow starting from Rugby and departing at 18:05, 48 minutes late.

So statistically 50 minutes was "recovered" and the 98 minutes' delay miraculously reduced to 48 minutes! As I type this 1S82 is still less than an hour late at Lancaster, so Avanti will only be liable for a 50% refund on a single ticket as opposed to 100% if the delay was 60 minutes or more. By this slight-of-hand Avanti will save a lot of money on delay-repay. Does this sort of thing happen very often?

Looks like it was a person hit by a train hardly AWC fault and control has to react to the situation as best they can

 

[Jamesrob637]

The past two times I have visited London and travelled on Avanti, I have been able to claim delay repay.

Says it all really.

 

[The Prisoner]

My last five Avanti journeys have resulted in 100% delay repay claims being paid. Book first class peak tickets and ask for some beers to take off the train - you are getting your money back more than likely.

Yes it wasn't their fault today, but it usually very much is.

 

[hozza94]

Yesterday was bad but it's very much outside of their control.

I was going from Euston to Coventry and caught the 2106 which was only 20 mins late departure.

 

[dk1]

Huw Merriman hinted today that he’s inclined to give Avanti a further extension & signs of improvement from the December TT change are filtering through.

 

[uww11x]

Huw Merriman hinted today that he’s inclined to give Avanti a further extension & signs of improvement from the December TT change are filtering through.

Unreal!

 

[dk1]

Unreal!

I see his point to an extent. It was supposed to see if performance improved but six months from October wasn’t really enough. New drivers coming on stream but engineering works all over Christmas & New Year hasn’t given the DfT long enough to evaluate. The decision has to be made well in advance of the April deadline.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

I legitimately feel sorry for those who use AWC (and by extension Northern/TPE) for the horrendous service and treatment they get. Unless absolutely necessary, it's fair to say that if I need to travel north, I'll use LNER, having never had a problem with them!

 

[Facing Back]

Unreal!

As a used on the Avanti service - actually temporary ex-user - I see your point.

However removing the franchise (or whatever it is called now) is a terribly blunt instrument and you can only use it once. What type of contract would be offered in any bid process as the moment? More of the same? Assuming Avanti's owners want to continue then a process of improvement which gives them a chance followed by somewhat better performance related terms for the extension might give better results.

 

[gabrielhj07]

In fairness to Avanti, they managed the full GLC-EUS run only 13L last Saturday.

 

[The Prisoner]

I think Avanti’s social team have finally given up with the daily battering. They are just arguing with everyone and making passive aggressive comments back to customers this evening.

I can’t quote from Twitter, but here’s a selection.

https://twitter.com/avantiwestcoast/status/1615858736915963913?s=46&t=2ysCJeRXk9Pj1d1RvxBgZQ

https://twitter.com/hestermerrett/status/1615861687466483712s=46&t=2ysCJeRXk9Pj1d1RvxBgZQ

Basically Avanti being patronising and the customer getting annoyed

https://twitter.com/avantiwestcoast/status/1615840504213635072?s=46&t=2ysCJeRXk9Pj1d1RvxBgZQ

Then we have a punter questioning whether Oxenholme will be open for a late service given the recent fiasco being met with a sarcastic response

Someone will defend it. Avanti are a genuine disgrace though.

 

[Liverpool 507]

I think Avanti’s social team have finally given up with the daily battering. They are just arguing with everyone and making passive aggressive comments back to customers this evening.

I can’t quote from Twitter, but here’s a selection.

https://twitter.com/avantiwestcoast/status/1615858736915963913?s=46&t=2ysCJeRXk9Pj1d1RvxBgZQ

https://twitter.com/hestermerrett/status/1615861687466483712s=46&t=2ysCJeRXk9Pj1d1RvxBgZQ

Basically Avanti being patronising and the customer getting annoyed

https://twitter.com/avantiwestcoast/status/1615840504213635072?s=46&t=2ysCJeRXk9Pj1d1RvxBgZQ

Then we have a punter questioning whether Oxenholme will be open for a late service given the recent fiasco being met with a sarcastic response

Someone will defend it. Avanti are a genuine disgrace though.

I don’t blame the social team one bit. The constant abuse they receive daily along with social teams at other TOCs is eye watering. All thanks to the DfT.

 

[TurbineEnginee]

Oh come on. “I’m well aware of the strike dates thankyou”

This is just rude.

All they have to do is sit there in their comfy slippers, undelayed, coffee in hand and not be rude.

“To be clear, you have already started the cancellation process. I would imagine, by the time the team get to you..”

Again come on. All they have to do is establish a script.

“I appreciate you have applied for a refund. I’m confident the team will get to you as soon as they can. I know there are a lot of refund applications but they do process them in the order received and usually within 24 hours. We always get to all of them. You will get your refund. I’m so sorry that you have been inconvenienced”

It’s copy and paste with an unchallenging tweak.

How hard can it be?

 

[nlogax]

All they have to do is sit there in their comfy slippers, undelayed, coffee in hand and not be rude.

That's a little naive I think you underestimate how much dealing with the stress of angry, hacked off customers can get to you on such a front-facing role.

I don't condone the sarcasm and pass-agg nature of these responses at all. However it is obvioust hat Avanti's socials team have developed their own coping strategy for constantly having to be the bearers of bad news and being the recipients of out-and-out abuse from the public in return. The generic reply idea imparts no useful information and would result in even more anger from passengers. It's not a job I envy.

 

[dk1]

That's a little naive I think you underestimate how much dealing with the stress of angry, hacked off customers can get to you on such a front-facing role.

I don't condone the sarcasm and pass-agg nature of these responses at all. However it is obvioust hat Avanti's socials team have developed their own coping strategy for constantly having to be the bearers of bad news and being the recipients of out-and-out abuse from the public in return. The generic reply idea imparts no useful information and would result in even more anger from passengers. It's not a job I envy.

I have known people doing these positions. They have all been quite thick skinned & have the attitude that it’s just their job. Some have found the rudest passengers the most entertaining to deal with. They just laugh it off.

 

[nlogax]

I have known people doing these positions. They have all been quite thick skinned & have the attitude that it’s just their job. Some have found the rudest passengers the most entertaining to deal with. They just laugh it off.

Out of necessity I'm sure. I'm willing to bet they didn't always have those thick skins. Takes a little while dealing with abuse from the public to give you that sort of resilience.

 

[Snow1964]

In fairness to Avanti, they managed the full GLC-EUS run only 13L last Saturday.

If that was cumulative delay for the route on the day, then everyone would be impressed.

If it was least worst delay of 1 train it is still terrible.

 

[dk1]

Out of necessity I'm sure. I'm willing to bet they didn't always have those thick skins. Takes a little while dealing with abuse from the public to give you that sort of resilience.

Cake helps lol

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Cake helps lol

Anyone else remember the days when Virgin Trains gave out cake to customers? Maybe we just got lucky.

 

[dk1]

Anyone else remember the days when Virgin Trains gave out cake to customers? Maybe we just got lucky.

Royal wedding cake for William & Kate was nice.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm concerned that Avanti West Coast appear to be manipulating their performance statistics to make them appear less dreadful than they really are.

For example: today's 1S78 15:30 Euston-Glasgow departed on time, but arrived at Rugby 98 minutes late at 17:55 and was then cancelled. The same train then formed 1S82 16:30 Euston-Glasgow starting from Rugby and departing at 18:05, 48 minutes late.

So statistically 50 minutes was "recovered" and the 98 minutes' delay miraculously reduced to 48 minutes! As I type this 1S82 is still less than an hour late at Lancaster, so Avanti will only be liable for a 50% refund on a single ticket as opposed to 100% if the delay was 60 minutes or more. By this slight-of-hand Avanti will save a lot of money on delay-repay. Does this sort of thing happen very often?

I am a bit confused. Could you set out what you think Avanti are trying to do? it seems to be Avanti are paying delay replay on 3 services

 

[Dryce]

Unreal!

The WCML is hit by a combination of problems - magnified by the Avantio sp[ecific issues.

It's not as if lots of delay repay wasn't being regularly paid back in the Virgin days. My colleagues used to book trains to London in the full expectation of arriving late and getting a discounted or free 1st journey.

I've not used the WCML since the autumn. Fed up. If it's not an Avanti rostering problem then it's a lineside fire, overhead lines, high temperatures affecting tracks or some poor soul hit by a train. Too much uncertainty and inconvenience and discomfort.

The ridiculous thing is that anybody like myself giving up the whole farce and abandoning the WCML at the moment probably isn't that great a loss to the railway given the amount of delay repay.