Avanti West Coast recruiting QUALIFIED DRIVER TALENT POOL ONLY at London Euston, Liverpool, Manchester, and Wolverhampton depots. (Posted 1/2-09-2020)

[Efini92]

Sounds much more fun than suburban DOO, cheaper cost of living than the capital and in a nice area by the sounds of it too.




I didn't realise that there was 16, at my place we're told we can pass on our own authority an IBH that's not protecting a tunnel and anything on Absolute Block so long as we're sure that the signal box is clsoed and the points are set. If it's on TCB infrastructure, we have to remain at a stand, even with no comms.

Of course, there's certain scenarios where we can pass Stop Boards, TCB stop signals and most other things with the permission of the signaller.

The 16 are reasons the signaller cab authorise you to pass a signal at danger.
The IB on your own authority has just been removed from the rule book.

 

[Economist]

The 16 are reasons the signaller cab authorise you to pass a signal at danger.
The IB on your own authority has just been removed from the rule book.

Thanks, I've just seen it now, most of the things I recognise, it's just that at my place they didn't teach it as 16 things, they were all from different modules of my Rules course, e.g. the one about a train that has seperated in service wasn't taught in the signalling module IIRC.

 

[dctraindriver]

Thanks, I've just seen it now, most of the things I recognise, it's just that at my place they didn't teach it as 16 things, they were all from different modules of my Rules course, e.g. the one about a train that has seperated in service wasn't taught in the signalling module IIRC.

Dealers see Speedo sticks in my mind...

 

[seagull]

The biggest drawback to working as a driver for Avanti is most definitely the Terms and Conditions, or lack thereof - and is why the headline salary is high, the price paid being the selling off of work-life balance.
Examples:
The roster is technically a four day week (8hrs45 average turn length) but all depots other than one link at Polmadie, stuff five days into each of four weeks, to give the fifth week off.

Sundays are committed, there is ZERO extra pay, and the minimum payment is 6 hours, so therefore it's often a struggle to get them covered even by the money men, and as a result it is entirely possible to have three booked Sundays in four weeks, which leaves a grand total of just five rest days over that four week period.

Every few weeks the base roster has a spare week, this is a week where until a few days prior, you have absolutely no idea which day will be your rest day, or what time shifts you will do, as you can be moved to any time at all.

Spare turns are also able to be moved several hours in each direction to meet the needs of the service.

At least one depot (Wolverhampton) has a virtually 24 hour timetable and roster, the last arrival from Euston being 2.30 a.m and the first departure being 4.30 a.m (empty from New St to Euston). Added to which there are two maintenance depots to sign (Oxley and Barton under Needwood), resulting in a lot of antisocial hours and very few day turns, or actual spare turns.
Other depots are not quite as extreme, though Manchester probably comes closest.

On the plus side, few stops, decent trains and a good rest day work agreement, if you've got the energy...

 

[Mintona]

I don’t like the sound of that spare week agreement. That must be a nightmare planning things like childcare.

At my place I do a five day week with a week off every fifth week and I love it. I tend to do my booked Sundays and the odd extra so have been known to end up with four days off in four weeks but it’s made up for by the week off which is a godsend in the summer holidays.

 

[rail-god]

The biggest drawback to working as a driver for Avanti is most definitely the Terms and Conditions, or lack thereof - and is why the headline salary is high, the price paid being the selling off of work-life balance.
Examples:
The roster is technically a four day week (8hrs45 average turn length) but all depots other than one link at Polmadie, stuff five days into each of four weeks, to give the fifth week off.

Sundays are committed, there is ZERO extra pay, and the minimum payment is 6 hours, so therefore it's often a struggle to get them covered even by the money men, and as a result it is entirely possible to have three booked Sundays in four weeks, which leaves a grand total of just five rest days over that four week period.

Every few weeks the base roster has a spare week, this is a week where until a few days prior, you have absolutely no idea which day will be your rest day, or what time shifts you will do, as you can be moved to any time at all.

Spare turns are also able to be moved several hours in each direction to meet the needs of the service.

At least one depot (Wolverhampton) has a virtually 24 hour timetable and roster, the last arrival from Euston being 2.30 a.m and the first departure being 4.30 a.m (empty from New St to Euston). Added to which there are two maintenance depots to sign (Oxley and Barton under Needwood), resulting in a lot of antisocial hours and very few day turns, or actual spare turns.
Other depots are not quite as extreme, though Manchester probably comes closest.

On the plus side, few stops, decent trains and a good rest day work agreement, if you've got the energy...

Wow. Gobsmacked

 

[RJM]

Call me crazy, but I’d rather do more days on in a row to get that 5th week off. Where I am at the moment, we have an average 4 day week with Sunday’s included and with my roster, we don’t work any more than 4 days on in a row and more often than not, we go from extremely earlies to extreme lates (or vice versa) with 2 days off in between. Rather do more days on, get into the rhythm for more days off in a row personally. Also I’m a suburban driver and I’ve applied for Euston, 9 or so days in a row of going to Preston, Liverpool, Manchester or Birmingham sounds far less taxing than 4 days in a row of Kingston/Hounslow rounders!

Anyone able to confirm that Avanti drivers get 5 weeks allocated annual leave plus 12 adhoc days?

Anyone else who’s applied, lemme know when you hear anything!

 

[DeparturesBeck]

Anyone able to confirm that Avanti drivers get 5 weeks allocated annual leave plus 12 adhoc days?

5 weeks plus 5 ad-hoc days. One extra day gained for each full year of employment BUT have to use leave for Christmas & Boxing Day unless rest day.

 

[RJM]

5 weeks plus 5 ad-hoc days. One extra day gained for each full year of employment BUT have to use leave for Christmas & Boxing Day unless rest day.

Thanks, same as us in regards to Christmas.

 

[Class2ldn]

I'm amazed people rush to work for firms like this where the t and c's are so bad.
At my place they give you 2 days leave for boxing day and Xmas day and a days pay on top for each. 4 day weeks sundays outside, 5 day long weekend every 3rd week, with the Sundays outside if yo u work them your on 70k plus anyway and still get 2 rest days each week.
The work may be better but its not worth more then the term and conditions for me.
I can understand people wanting to get out of suburban work and my place is sort of that with a bit of mainline aswell so not a bad mix but to me its sounds like your just at the the companies beck and call I mean who agreed that spare week.
There would be riots at my toc if that was suggested lol

 

[Grid56005]

Everyone should note that Euston doesn’t work to a week of rds every 5 weeks, it’s either 6 or 7. You do get a long weekend in between though. One of the links use, (since changed I think but), to work 17 out of 18 days in a row, including Sunday’s and 6 nights, with the only Rd being on a week of spare so you wouldn’t know which day you would be off! The links are worked that way to insure everyone gets 104 Rds a year
Also not sure if it’s been mentioned but there is very limited parking now due to HS2 work

 

[sw1ller]

Don’t know about anyone else, but the shine has really been taken away for me after reading this thread. My TOC is almost the worst basic pay and I can’t see myself leaving for Avanti now. Sounds awful.

 

[Eccles1983]

5 weeks plus 5 ad-hoc days. One extra day gained for each full year of employment BUT have to use leave for Christmas & Boxing Day unless rest day.

That's very grim.

I get 4 weeks and 12 ad hoc days, with only 1 day used for boxing day.

And with 26 contracted Sundays a year the wages aren't as good as the headline figure. That's roughly £7.5k a year in my place. Added to the 12hr movement off spare and the truly bizarre week of spares where you could be moved from pillar to post it's actually some terrible t&C's.

It's not exactly family friendly. Is all that turmoil worth the faster trains and better work content?

 

[TTDARL]

Don’t know about anyone else, but the shine has really been taken away for me after reading this thread. My TOC is almost the worst basic pay and I can’t see myself leaving for Avanti now. Sounds awful.

Best to get a confirmed up to date copy of the roster and confirmation of the current terms and conditions etc. A lot of forum information is based on ‘opinion’ ‘alleged’ or ‘I’ve heard’ Information. A lot of information is based on old and out dated information from the ‘Virgin’ days. Don’t think we’ve actually heard from anyone on here that actually works as a current qualified driver with Avanti west coast at present. A lot of ‘fiction’ based information & not facts so just don’t make your mind up based solely on a forum.

 

[seagull]

Don’t think we’ve actually heard from anyone on here that actually works as a current qualified driver with Avanti west coast at present.

You did, when I posted...

The spare weeks are something that belong to an era when dinosaurs roamed the earth, but there's no incentive for Company Council to change it as most, if not all of them, are not even competent to drive trains as it's been years since they have. Hence they don't face the issues that normal drivers do, trying to plan life and unable to do so.
The spare days where movement can be considerable (more than just an hour or two) is probably something some other TOCs do.
And the committed Sundays are a constant bone of contention, as if you can't get cover, you have to work, no possibility to use annual leave as it's not in the working week. And yet no sick pay if you go sick, for the same reason. A big mess.

One upside I didn't mention previously was that we don't do double tripping, thankfully.

 

[TTDARL]

You did, when I posted...

The spare weeks are something that belong to an era when dinosaurs roamed the earth, but there's no incentive for Company Council to change it as most, if not all of them, are not even competent to drive trains as it's been years since they have. Hence they don't face the issues that normal drivers do, trying to plan life and unable to do so.
The spare days where movement can be considerable (more than just an hour or two) is probably something some other TOCs do.
And the committed Sundays are a constant bone of contention, as if you can't get cover, you have to work, no possibility to use annual leave as it's not in the working week. And yet no sick pay if you go sick, for the same reason. A big mess.

One upside I didn't mention previously was that we don't do double tripping, thankfully.

OK thanks. Do you have a copy of the current roster that new drivers from another TOC would start on?

 

[marty1977]

Though I don't personally drive for Avanti I know a few who left to go there from my TOC and they all regret it and would love to return. They were attracted by the big money and supposed prestige of it, and all of them tell me the conditions are awful and the route card is mind numbing after a while. Unless you are working somewhere that you can't stand I would think carefully before going over just because of money or what you think is better routes.

 

[Economist]

The spare weeks are something that belong to an era when dinosaurs roamed the earth, but there's no incentive for Company Council to change it as most, if not all of them, are not even competent to drive trains as it's been years since they have. Hence they don't face the issues that normal drivers do, trying to plan life and unable to do so.

That's why, in my opninion, the Company Council at every company should be competent to drive trains. If you get Company Council members on full-time release, they often end up losing either their competency or their medical, which means all the company has to do is say "we'll take you're full-time release away" in order to keep them in check.

One upside I didn't mention previously was that we don't do double tripping, thankfully.

Can they send you on a full trip plus a half? From what I can tell, a full trip can be done in under 6 hours even with a PNB included halfway through the trip.

One thing that would be inetresting to see is how the terms and conditions compare with LNER and XC who are seen as the other "prestige" domestic TOCs.

 

[mph9937]

I'm amazed people rush to work for firms like this where the t and c's are so bad.
At my place they give you 2 days leave for boxing day and Xmas day and a days pay on top for each. 4 day weeks sundays outside, 5 day long weekend every 3rd week, with the Sundays outside if yo u work them your on 70k plus anyway and still get 2 rest days each week.
The work may be better but its not worth more then the term and conditions for me.
I can understand people wanting to get out of suburban work and my place is sort of that with a bit of mainline aswell so not a bad mix but to me its sounds like your just at the the companies beck and call I mean who agreed that spare week.
There would be riots at my toc if that was suggested lol

Well said!

Exactly the same conditions at our TOC maybe not quite as much as 70k.

The long weekend in every 3 is brilliant. I could finish say at 1pm on Thursday, have all Thursday afternoon and evening to myself. I would then be off Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon/Tue and then not back until about 5pm on the Wednesday giving me most of Wed as well! This is not far from being a full week off and is every 3 weeks not like Avanti off in every 5 weeks.

Swings and roundabouts I suppose!

Don’t know about anyone else, but the shine has really been taken away for me after reading this thread. My TOC is almost the worst basic pay and I can’t see myself leaving for Avanti now. Sounds awful.

Or...

Let’s think outside of the box!

Maybe there are some on here who are desperate to work for Avanti and showing them in a bad light just so that they can put their application in with fewer candidates!

 

[Class2ldn]

Yeah the long weekend every 3rd is brilliant, you always finish on an early and always go back on a late.
I love it.

 

[seagull]

OK thanks. Do you have a copy of the current roster that new drivers from another TOC would start on?

Depending where you're thinking of going, yes, send me a PM. Usually new qualified drivers go into the bottom link if there's more than one link, which can mean not signing all routes or all traction, but otherwise there are no penalties.

That's why, in my opninion, the Company Council at every company should be competent to drive trains. If you get Company Council members on full-time release, they often end up losing either their competency or their medical, which means all the company has to do is say "we'll take you're full-time release away" in order to keep them in check.

Can they send you on a full trip plus a half? From what I can tell, a full trip can be done in under 6 hours even with a PNB included halfway through the trip.

Agreed re. Company Council, it's ridiculous when those supposed to be representing us to the management have no idea what the job entails any more. Plus getting every one of their booked Sundays guaranteed off with pay...

And no, even a trip and a half is not allowed, so about the longest driving day would be something like Euston-Preston-Birmingham-Euston. Or Birmingham both ways if really unlucky.

 

[Nacho85]

Did anyone get a reply yet?

 

[TTDARL]

Way too soon after the closing date for any replies. Lots of sifting to do as well as current recruitment for trainee drivers, driver management and other roles recently advertised. Plus COVID slowing things down. Take a seat for the long haul!

 

[Scottychoo]

Depending where you're thinking of going, yes, send me a PM. Usually new qualified drivers go into the bottom link if there's more than one link, which can mean not signing all routes or all traction, but otherwise there are no penalties.



Agreed re. Company Council, it's ridiculous when those supposed to be representing us to the management have no idea what the job entails any more. Plus getting every one of their booked Sundays guaranteed off with pay...

And no, even a trip and a half is not allowed, so about the longest driving day would be something like Euston-Preston-Birmingham-Euston. Or Birmingham both ways if really unlucky.

So why do drivers put up with crap ASLEF company council? Go to meetings, speak up and get rid of the old dinosaurs that never drive a train but set the roster for everyone who does. Or quit ASLEF, and email them telling them why you are quitting.

 

[Driver170]

I’m still waiting on a reply also. I suppose this will be sent your email...

 

[43066]

And no, even a trip and a half is not allowed, so about the longest driving day would be something like Euston-Preston-Birmingham-Euston. Or Birmingham both ways if really unlucky.

Thanks for all the excellent info you’ve provided on this thread.

Re. the double tripping if you just do Birmingham and back presumably you must be sat there for a good few hours, or would you normally come straight back to London and then do a shunt, for example (or vice versa if you’re based further north). I appreciate it will obviously vary.

Or quit ASLEF, and email them telling them why you are quitting.

Surely better to remain within and try to change it from the inside. But I generally agree with your sentiment, it’s amazing how weak it can be (appreciate that varies by location).

 

[London 10101]

The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[Scottychoo]

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Until you get to the other side of course

 

[Railwayman101]

So why do drivers put up with crap ASLEF company council? Go to meetings, speak up and get rid of the old dinosaurs that never drive a train but set the roster for everyone who does. Or quit ASLEF, and email them telling them why you are quitting.

I got fed up with ASLEF and their corrupt ways- left and joined RMT.

Another 12 Drivers at my depot followed.

 

[Scottychoo]

I got fed up with ASLEF and their corrupt ways- left and joined RMT.

Another 12 Drivers at my depot followed.

You are 13 of many, trouble is RMT may not exist much longer so where do you go then?