Avanti West Coast Rolling Stock Updates

[jfollows]

It’s a bit of a dumb decision considering the south WCML is very curved especially around Tamworth and rugby. Preston to Wigan and Preston to Lancaster is straight and should also be signed off

Maybe Stafford, Atherstone, Weedon and Berkhamstead, but it's 125mph through both Tamworth and Rugby surely?

 

[Some guy]

Maybe Stafford, Atherstone, Weedon and Berkhamstead, but it's 125mph through both Tamworth and Rugby surely?

Yeah for a tilting train its easy but on a non tilt it should be 110 around rugby

 

[jfollows]

Yeah for a tilting train its easy but on a non tilt it should be 110 around rugby

Fair point. I remember when it was improved to 40mph ......

 

[Wapps]

We keep being told that the WCML south of Weaver Jn will be signed for 125mph non-tilt running for the 805/807 fleet.
So no point in attempting to fit tilt gear on 91s (which doesn't exist anyway).
Class 90s wouldn't be able to use the 125mph sections.

“Keep being told”. I suspect it’s not happening and we are taking a step backwards with the 805/807 fleet.

 

[Some guy]

“Keep being told”. I suspect it’s not happening and we are taking a step backwards with the 805/807 fleet.

They definitely aren’t a 7 car 807 will have almost the exact same seats as a 9 car pendolino. They’ve also got much better acceleration. Also they won’t buy 140mph stock if they knew they can’t go past 110

 

[Wapps]

They definitely aren’t a 7 car 807 will have almost the exact same seats as a 9 car pendolino. They’ve also got much better acceleration. Also they won’t buy 140mph stock if they knew they can’t go past 110

Plenty of 140mph stock has been bought over the years on lines which, according to folks on here, will never run at 140mph, even if signalling is ever upgraded. We are resigned to a downgrade on the WCML and 125mph max on the other conventional lines.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They definitely aren’t a 7 car 807 will have almost the exact same seats as a 9 car pendolino. They’ve also got much better acceleration. Also they won’t buy 140mph stock if they knew they can’t go past 110

They (First) bought 397s for TPE without any plan for more than 110mph on the northern WCML.
The 807s will be deployed initially to release Pendolinos to replace Voyagers currently running under the wires.

 

[Rheoman]

Yeah for a tilting train its easy but on a non tilt it should be 110 around rugby

It’s 100 mph through Rugby now if you are non tilt. When I started in 1978 it was a heady 60 mph!

 

[Huntergreed]

390154 is now out in service today, bringing the total number of refurbs in service to 6 (7 pending 157)

 

[Mag_seven]

If anyone wants to talk about linespeeds or anything else that is not talking about Avanti Rolling Stock Refurbishments then please start a new thread.

Thanks

 

[Blindtraveler]

Have any been to edge hill for the vestibule and toilet door refresh yet? Also are we any closer to sorting out the card payment issues in the buffet? Given that AT&t the can take card payments on the strathspey railway in the middle of the bloody Cairngorms this failure to be able to do so on a top link intercity operator on a high-speed rail line is embarrassing to say the least

 

[AJDesiro]

Have any been to edge hill for the vestibule and toilet door refresh yet?

I would assume that since 390 154 went to Edge Hill after leaving Widnes, that it may have had the vestibule refurb - I don't know for sure though.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I see that Avanti are all over social media today de-essing excited about their new Hitachi fleet. I know that some absolutely love them but for me this is a further down grade to the service and whilst removing diesel underwires is important I feel we could have done a lot better than this

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see that Avanti are all over social media today de-essing excited about their new Hitachi fleet. I know that some absolutely love them but for me this is a further down grade to the service and whilst removing diesel underwires is important I feel we could have done a lot better than this

They are considerably better than Voyagers. The only other services they will be used on are the additional Liverpool (so the Pendolino still runs if you prefer that) and the new Euston-Brum semifast (which only matters if you live in Watford, MK or Rugby).

 

[xydancer]

If anyone has recently been on the newly refurbished sets, how do they compare to the old ones as an experience? I do like the new design and new features such as wireless charging tables and the new ambience to give it a distinctive feel that sets Avanti apart from it's predecessor, but has it also enhanced the customer experience such as more comfortable seating and better use of the shop or is it still roughly the same experience as before?

Have just got off tonight's 1733 Euston-Manchester at Rugby. The refurbished interiors look great. The colour scheme is rather more soothing than before. I like the extendable tables (I can actually fit my 15 inch laptop on one), and the plug socket location. Even the wifi seemed way better than usual.

I also like the new headrests on the seats. They're just the right height for me, but I am 5ft 11. Would they be OK for someone a few inches shorter? But boy, those seats seem hard. OK for a 50-minute dash to Rugby but I'm not sure I'd want to sit in one all the way to Scotland.

 

[Carlisle]

They are considerably better than Voyagers.

Yes, however if Voyager’s weren’t diesel only & had a decent refurbishment I’m not convinced that’d be true .

 

[The_Train]

I feel we could have done a lot better than this

You mean like a loco and some comfortable coaching stock?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, however if Voyager’s weren’t diesel only & had a decent refurbishment I’m not convinced that’d be true .

The only way you'd get Voyagers to an equal level of comfort would be by reducing the capacity to fewer than 50 seats per vehicle. The hugely space inefficient layout is a big issue here. And the overheads would still be useless.

 

[dereksingh291]

Have 221142 & 221143 gone off lease today? If so where have they gone off lease & will they be transferred over to CrossCountry but also will all Avanti 221s go over to CrossCountry?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Have 221142 & 221143 gone off lease today? If so where have they gone off lease & will they be transferred over to CrossCountry but also will all Avanti 221s go over to CrossCountry?

I believe 143 is still not repaired from its incident, giving it an uncertain future for now. Maybe they’ll just give up on the poor thing.

 

[greatvoyager]

I believe 143 is still not repaired from its incident, giving it an uncertain future for now. Maybe they’ll just give up on the poor thing.

It was fully repaired and was on a test run not that long ago. Images on Facebook display it in the full livery too.

 

[Ant1966]

Does anyone know where 142 and 143 are located currently?

 

[Jimini]

I believe 143 is still not repaired from its incident, giving it an uncertain future for now. Maybe they’ll just give up on the poor thing.

Is that the one that had an argument with a tree near Kenilworth last year, or is this one of the Avanti ones potentially moving over to XC?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It was fully repaired and was on a test run not that long ago. Images on Facebook display it in the full livery too.

Okay, I was misinformed then. Thanks

 

[greatvoyager]

Okay, I was misinformed then. Thanks

You’re welcome . The work carried out on 221143 does seem like a bit of a waste of time now, unless storage is only temporary, which I’m starting to doubt.

 

[Sorcerer]

With regards to the Class 807 is it actually looking likely that we will get a second Liverpool service every hour? I understand that some of them will be replacing the Voyagers on West Midlands routes but was the stock order placed with the provisions for a second Liverpool service in mind? So far I haven't heard much in the way of approval by the Office of Road and Rail, nor about any increased demand for a second Liverpool service which may have dropped following the pandemic.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With regards to the Class 807 is it actually looking likely that we will get a second Liverpool service every hour? I understand that some of them will be replacing the Voyagers on West Midlands routes but was the stock order placed with the provisions for a second Liverpool service in mind? So far I haven't heard much in the way of approval by the Office of Road and Rail, nor about any increased demand for a second Liverpool service which may have dropped following the pandemic.

Yes. The timetable presentation in the Dec 2022 thread includes it, though it won't come in in Dec 2022 because anyone who thinks the 80x will be in service by then is in cloud cuckoo land.

The intention is to use the 807s on the second Liverpool and on the Birmingham semifast. That means two out of the three hourly trains at MKC will be 807s, good job I like them!

 

[Sorcerer]

Yes. The timetable presentation in the Dec 2022 thread includes it, though it won't come in in Dec 2022 because anyone who thinks the 80x will be in service by then is in cloud cuckoo land.

Thanks for the info. I do hope we get see a second service sooner rather than later. I trust these new services will include a call at South Parkway? If so this would be very convenient for a friend of mine in the south by saving them a trip into the city centre and would also enable greater connectivity with John Lennon Airport.

 

[Skie]

With regards to the Class 807 is it actually looking likely that we will get a second Liverpool service every hour? (Snip) nor about any increased demand for a second Liverpool service which may have dropped following the pandemic.

Even back in 2016 Virgin were bigging up how much the passenger numbers on the Liverpool services had increased. It actually contradicted some of their own arguments for the Manchester high frequency service as it showed Liverpool loads had been increasing for a long time.

The Avanti bid also included a second Liverpool service, so it will be a thing when the Hitachi’s arrive.

 

[Sorcerer]

Even back in 2016 Virgin were bigging up how much the passenger numbers on the Liverpool services had increased. It actually contradicted some of their own arguments for the Manchester high frequency service as it showed Liverpool loads had been increasing for a long time.

So what stopped Virgin from increasing the service frequency? Was it for a lack of appropriate stock? If Avanti need 44 now for their current level of service I don't think that would've been sufficient stock for Virgin back in the day to introduce a second service outside of peak hours (specifically the 17:33 and 18:33 services on weekdays and 16:33 on weekends). In either case the 807s should hopefully enable a frequent enough level of half-hourly of services between London and Liverpool.