I don't understand your point. There was 125mph electric stock earmarked for those services, when they were still planned, and they even got as far as leasing and refurbishing some carriages. The only reason they are not running up and down the WCML now is Grand Central's decision to abandon the plans following Covid-19. It had nothing to do with suitability of the available rolling stock.
I thought the plan was to use 90’s?
Ah, maybe. I thought it was 91s.
Didn’t all the 91’s get sent abroad?
None of them have gone abroad as 91s. Some have probably gone abroad as scrap metal though.
I thought they went to Bulgaria?
Nope.
I believe the Europhoenix ones that would operate abroad haven’t let the UK yet
Apologies I thought they’d already gone.
What you should bear in mind is that those 12 Pendolinos not in use won't just be stored away awaiting extra services. I remember in a video covering the unveiling of Virgin's Alstom Pendolino livery where the CEO said that Alstom provided them 47 trainsets per day. This was when the fleet consisted of 52 units. Unless practises have changed I don't think they could just whip out the spare 390s instead of ordering the new stock. Plus the 807s will enable better connectivity on Avanti's hopes for their second Liverpool services serving South Parkway station (which is something that's been in demand for quite some time) thanks to their smaller consists.
With the microwave oven joke put to one side for the moment:
If Alstom can only provide them 47 best case pretty low availability but guess tilt systems add to the mtce workload. So AWC can access 3 more units yet they don't need them and they may have aspirations for more services but can't see the DfT being interested in taking on extra leasing charges without revenue generation. Of course the new units will be deployed but i wouldn't be refurbishing all the pendos just yet. Mind you First has a track record of wasting money on refurbishments in other parts of its empire.
Some Passcoms have moved. That’s the big obvious change which does need briefing.
If you're referring to the potential for more Liverpool services I don't see why the DfT wouldn't allow it seeing as it was one of their franchise promises (subject to approval by the ORR). I know franchise commitments probably aren't a thing anymore with franchises being scrapped, but the potential for a second Liverpool service is there, and seeing as it can be quite a busy route I don't see why not. The 807s would enable a stop at Liverpool South Parkway which the Pendolinos can't do.
The Class 390 refurbishment was not a waste of money. It was arguably very much needed.
Examples?
Agreed. I don't see how anyone could claim it wasn't needed.
442's
One class with specific circumstances is hardly a track record.
Like comparing apples with oranges.
Original plan was 91s but as they would be restricted to 110mph due to being non-tilt, it was decided to go for 90s which are more reliable and have better acceleration.
The 91s were designed for tilt, should they be used on the WCML. The MKIVs have a tilt profile, so if the cost of installing tilting equipment were proportionate they should be able to do 125+ on the WCML. Does anyone know how difficult / costly this would be?
*Angel Trains
As I understand it the space for the tilt equipment in the 91s is no longer available after the HGR work 20 years or so ago. So, nigh on impossible and not going to happen.
I’d be amazed if the GBR transition is currently anything remotely resembling being that well planned, but happy to be corrected.
Indeed. We haven't even got the draft legislation to set up GBR yet. It's years away, if ever at this rate.
We keep being told that the WCML south of Weaver Jn will be signed for 125mph non-tilt running for the 805/807 fleet.
For another thread, but it is very much happening. 2024 is planned start date. Legislation will be done in this Parliament's session.
It’s a bit of a dumb decision considering the south WCML is very curved especially around Tamworth and rugby. Preston to Wigan and Preston to Lancaster is straight and should also be signed off
