Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[Purple Orange]

Sounds like a good trial to do. This will likely be a move towards replacing 1st with Standard Premium. It may even drop “1st” as a naming convention altogether. Just ‘Standard’ and ‘Premium’ in what I suspect is a step towards what we will see on HS2, especially if the eastern branch is cancelled. The vast majority of services will be pretty short and if you want food or a drink, get up and buy it in the shop.

 

[Trackman]

Admittedly I haven't been on a train since pre Covid and I'm sure that for a long period of time demand will be much lower than usual, but surely only having effectively one and a half First Class carriages on 9-car Pendolinos isn't alot of First Class seating for "full First Class" ticket holders?

The main selling points of First Class to me are:

Less crowded.- Even since 9 car Pendolinos reduced First Class capacity, I've occasionally found it difficult to find a seat in First at times and found it to be much more crowded.

Increased comfort/legroom.
Far bigger probability of getting a seat (if I haven't already reserved one or I was unable to change a backwards facing reservation when I get travel sick when sat backwards)

Complimentary food- I think breakfast is very good, but not keen on the evening meals. (I'm aware they've been scrapped for the time being)

I was thinking about 9-cars, some weekday services around peak out of Euston are chocca (pre-covid).
I wonder if it will remain a floating first class carriage, unless they re-brand it?

 

[Wolfie]

I wonder how much it'll be up to Glasgow. £25 from Euston - Stafford seems to be a bit steep imo.

Now I wonder if this means they'll raise the price of weekend first.

I wonder if they'll kill Weekend First. This seems like a replacement to me.

 

[Gaz55]

It seems like a daft move when 390s probably have more First Class carriages than what they should have.

 

[Essexman]

Fair enough, it'd not be worth it for you, then. I guess we have completely different priorities for 1st - for me it's all about increased comfort (and having a window seat that is also an aisle seat).

Exactly the same for me. I'll pay up to 50% extra for more space and comfort. I'm happy to pay for food. In fact I'd rather pay more for better food - a restaurant car.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly the same for me. I'll pay up to 50% extra for more space and comfort. I'm happy to pay for food. In fact I'd rather pay more for better food - a restaurant car.

Yes, I'd go with that. Either I want a proper meal in which case I'm happy to pay for it (though I'd more go with the DB Bistro/Caledonian Sleeper model than the traditional expensive three-course-meal restaurant car model), or I don't in which case the "taster menu" or crackers-and-cheese box you get with "full" 1st is a bit of a waste of money. Works for Ryanair too, their food selection is quite good for a plane, and works precisely because not everyone wants it!

Free tea, coffee and water isn't a bad idea, though, and costs next to nothing to provide. And it is nice having it in a china cup, which reduces waste compared with paper. That said, if it requires an extra steward (i.e. if you didn't, you could just have one staffing the buffet) which would mean cranking the fare up, I'll walk to the buffet and buy it.

 

[stj]

Remember Silver Standard in the 80s

 

[Bletchleyite]

Remember Silver Standard in the 80s

That's kind of the other model I mentioned above - Standard style seating (maybe slightly upgraded) but full service. It's not my preference and I definitely wouldn't pay extra for it (with the odd exception, e.g. if Standard was Fainsa Sophias and the premium class was FISA LEANs or Grammer IC3000s).

 

[mark-h]

If they have fewer First Class passengers could they make the food offering in First better?

The kitchen facilities will be the same on the current rolling stock as it cannot be removed easily. I don't know if it is the limiting factor in terms of onboard catering or whether budget/staffing issues are the bigger issue.

I wonder if they'll kill Weekend First. This seems like a replacement to me.

It would seem pointless running both unless they upgrade the First Class at Weekends offering to be more like the weekday service.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is this a commercial initiative by Avanti, or are they just pushing out a DfT policy enshrined in their ERMA (which might spread onto other long-distance TOCs)?

 

[cakefiend]

Is this a commercial initiative by Avanti, or are they just pushing out a DfT policy enshrined in their ERMA (which might spread onto other long-distance TOCs)?

Commercial, it's been planned from day one. Operator specific upgrades aren't covered by ORCATS, so the TOC keeps all the revenue from this.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I don't think many passengers will take it up, another reason being that it doesn't seem to be very widely advertised.

Theres not much mention of it on Social Media, and the train managers barely advertised Weekend First as it was. It'll be interesting to see how well it does once we are all back to normal again.

One thing I've noticed they mention is that everybody gets a plug socket, does this mean that the upcoming refurbishment may not include them in Standard and have them remain at the tables?

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing I've noticed they mention is that everybody gets a plug socket, does this mean that the upcoming refurbishment may not include them in Standard and have them remain at the tables?

In Standard on most trains it's one per pair of seats.

 

[Clip]

Sounds good to me as it means when I come back from visiting parents I don't have to listen to the stag/hen weekend party people on a Friday evening.

 

[Purple Orange]

Sounds good to me as it means when I come back from visiting parents I don't have to listen to the stag/hen weekend party people on a Friday evening.

Unless they too buy an upgrade!

Generally though, depending on price, I’d go for it. The frivolous still like a free tea/coffee, crap food and limited drinks selection is what makes 1st class so unappealing to me on a 2-3 hour journey.

 

[All Line Rover]

One thing I've noticed they mention is that everybody gets a plug socket, does this mean that the upcoming refurbishment may not include them in Standard and have them remain at the tables?

Sounds better than first class, where only window seats have power sockets. This used to be a pain on busy services. Not a problem right now, of course.

 

[p.d87]

The standard premium is currently on a trial period operating on the west mids route only. No further north than Wolverhampton at present. This is to test the practicality of providing it and also get feedback on the potential cost etc. from passengers and also staff feedback too. This is the shortest route for journey times which makes it the best for the trial as if it works here it'll work on the other routes too.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Sounds good to me as it means when I come back from visiting parents I don't have to listen to the stag/hen weekend party people on a Friday evening.

You'd be surprised how many of them actually do purchase an upgrade. I recall doing Glasgow - Preston and a hen party had bought a First Class upgrade and were already very lively.... they got on at Motherwell and this was a 7:37am departure from Glasgow.

 

[Clip]

You'd be surprised how many of them actually do purchase an upgrade. I recall doing Glasgow - Preston and a hen party had bought a First Class upgrade and were already very lively.... they got on at Motherwell and this was a 7:37am departure from Glasgow.

Being from Blackpool I'm aware that there are cases of them being in first from London but not many. So this product would suit me fine and even when I've been in first where they have been I've asked the guard to move us and they have been more than happy too.

This product sounds great imo and I'll be looking for it next year from our wonderful seaside town

 

[Scotrail314209]

Being from Blackpool I'm aware that there are cases of them being in first from London but not many. So this product would suit me fine and even when I've been in first where they have been I've asked the guard to move us and they have been more than happy too.

This product sounds great imo and I'll be looking for it next year from our wonderful seaside town

My opinion on it might change once I've experienced it first hand, It'll be a good escape from all the families that board during the summer holidays... most of which with young children.

 

[Energy]

I notice how they want to reduce the proper First Class to one and a bit carriages. I said from the start that First Group would cheapen the WCML (and not in the good way) and I am yet to be convinced otherwise.

Not a problem IMO, first class was already fairly quiet while standard was packed. With COVID making finances even tighter there will be less first class demand.

 

[philthetube]

Leaving one toilet for the whole of first class which, as an accessible toilet, doesn't work half the time? Well, that's "luxury"! (We are talking about "luxury", right? That is, better than "premium"?) If it came to this I'd ditch the first class season ticket and switch to standard. "Your reason for not travelling first class?" "Not enough bogs."

We're not talking about 4/5 coach units here. We're talking about min 9 coach trains, with plentiful standard class accommodation, toilets, a buffet. If first class ends up having identical seating to standard premium, but fewer seats, it'll only be there for snobs who don't mind poor quality "free" food.

Not in my experience.

 

[Mogz]

I do wonder whether this over-complicates things.

What’s wrong with First Class, Standard Class and a Restaurant car (of, say, half a carriage length) for those who want a meal?

 

[peterblue]

Seems like an unnecessary and overcomplicated idea. I can't see it being well used; will just waste space on the train. I wonder if it's perhaps more financially sound to roll out weekend first upgrades to any day (provided it is offpeak)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not in my experience.

Other than on a Friday evening at about 1900-1930 out of Euston, I don't recall the last time I didn't get a seat on a WCML service.

Seems like an unnecessary and overcomplicated idea. I can't see it being well used; will just waste space on the train.

Quite the opposite; it's basically to fill unsold First Class seats.

 

[peterblue]

Other than on a Friday evening at about 1900-1930 out of Euston, I don't recall the last time I didn't get a seat on a WCML service.



Quite the opposite; it's basically to fill unsold First Class seats.

Right. But there is not enough demand for both a First Class and a Standard Premium on most Avanti services/routes. Hence it seems overcomplicated and unnecessary. It would seem more logical to instead extend the current weekend first upgrades to offpeak on a weekday

 

[Bletchleyite]

Right. But there is not enough demand for both a First Class and a Standard Premium on most Avanti services/routes.

Exactly. That's the whole point. By providing a price differentiation, the "full whack" 1st seats will still be sold, but empty seats will too.

Hence it seems overcomplicated and unnecessary. It would seem more logical to instead extend the current weekend first upgrades to offpeak on a weekday

Except that would damage sales of "full price" 1st.

 

[Tallguy]

Sounds like Premium Economy on long haul aircraft. Better seat, more legroom, bigger baggage allowance but no better food of drink than down the back.

 

[cactustwirly]

Will Avanti still be selling 1st advances or will these now be standard premium?

 

[Wolfie]

Sounds like Premium Economy on long haul aircraft. Better seat, more legroom, bigger baggage allowance but no better food of drink than down the back.

Actually the food tends to be better in Premium Economy but the drinks generally not.