Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[Carlisle]

There probably isn't - the First Class sections of many trains are pretty empty whenever I've been on them.

First Class seems to perpetually come & go for various reasons during rail’s existence, but decent complimentary food & drink certainly seems to have revived it on longer distance routes in recent years .

 

[STINT47]

Avanti should consider changing the names of it's product to get more first class ticket sales. As first class is now a more luxury offering with high quality food and service perhaps something like Pullman or Executive class may be more appropriate?

Potential passengers would then understand why the price is so high and be willing to pay the extra instead of opting for standard premium.

 

[Starmill]

Avanti should consider changing the names of it's product to get more first class ticket sales. As first class is now a more luxury offering with high quality food and service perhaps something like Pullman or Executive class may be more appropriate?

Potential passengers would then understand why the price is so high and be willing to pay the extra instead of opting for standard premium.

The problem is that the First Class service is pretty much just the same as it has always been? So changing the name and marketing to make it even more premium than it already is will just cause disappointment. Of course, the price going up significantly without a notable change in service is also having this effect.

 

[STINT47]

The problem is that the First Class service is pretty much just the same as it has always been? So changing the name and marketing to make it even more premium than it already is will just cause disappointment. Of course, the price going up significantly without a notable change in service is also having this effect.

That's disappointing to hear. When this was launched Avanti made it sound like first class was going to be like first class on a full service airline. Sounds like it was just marketing talk and an excuse to raise the prices.

 

[Scotrail314209]

That's disappointing to hear. When this was launched Avanti made it sound like first class was going to be like first class on a full service airline. Sounds like it was just marketing talk and an excuse to raise the prices.

And by the sounds of the menu, an excuse to turn its clientele in Vegetarians.

 

[Djgr]

Attempting to operate a three class service is going to end in tears.

Sometimes managers' pet projects should be left on the back of the beer mat.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Attempting to operate a three class service is going to end in tears.

Sometimes managers' pet projects should be left on the back of the beer mat.

Whats the likelihood that the three class idea will be canned before the refurbished sets come out in meaningful numbers

 

[mmh]

Whats the likelihood that the three class idea will be canned before the refurbished sets come out in meaningful numbers

Close to zero. The 390s always had a ridiculous amount of first class, unless the refurbishment reduces it, standard premium will carry on.

 

[Merseysider]

When I’ve been in Standard Premium the last couple of months it’s been as busy as I remembered First being back in the ‘good old’ days - ie heaving at the usual times with plenty paying the upgrade, or in the case of the last service down to Birmingham, almost empty

At least this way Avanti are saving a few quid...

The 390s always had a ridiculous amount of first class.

Agreed.

 

[Jimini]

When I’ve been in Standard Premium the last couple of months it’s been as busy as I remembered First being back in the ‘good old’ days - ie heaving at the usual times with plenty paying the upgrade, or in the case of the last service down to Birmingham, almost empty

At least this way Avanti are saving a few quid...


Agreed.

I’m in SP on the 2104 down service to Wolverhampton right now, and the poor TM has had to make announcements aplenty about rude language and unacceptable behaviour in standard. Going by the six upset people who have walked past me on the way to the rear, they’ve been given the green light to go sit in first class — quite rightly so too if standard is full of animals as it sounds like it is! Gawd knows what’s going on up there. Might be the best 15 sleeves I spent today, upgrading to SP.

 

[Merseysider]

I had a similar experience not so long ago on the way to Brum, normally try and snag cheap SP fares but didn’t on this occasion. A large group of drunk football louts shouting/swearing so loud you could hear them in the next carriage.

Swore never again to travel standard in Avanti after a football match It’s a shame there isn’t much the staff can realistically do.

 

[Huntergreed]

I had a similar experience not so long ago on the way to Brum, normally try and snag cheap SP fares but didn’t on this occasion. A large group of drunk football louts shouting/swearing so loud you could hear them in the next carriage.

Swore never again to travel standard in Avanti after a football match It’s a shame there isn’t much the staff can realistically do.

Yes, agreed. It’s an excellent way to escape the particularly rowdy crowds when they do end up in standard.

I’ve also found another major appeal for me is the easy availability of plug sockets at every seat in SP (ignoring the fact that it’s beyond ridiculous that in 2022, an intercity express train still doesn’t have available plug sockets at every seat, although it’s good this is finally getting resolved with the refurbishment)

 

[takno]

Close to zero. The 390s always had a ridiculous amount of first class, unless the refurbishment reduces it, standard premium will carry on.

IIRC they're converting a carriage on each train to normal standard in the refurb

 

[Jimini]

I had a similar experience not so long ago on the way to Brum, normally try and snag cheap SP fares but didn’t on this occasion. A large group of drunk football louts shouting/swearing so loud you could hear them in the next carriage.

Swore never again to travel standard in Avanti after a football match It’s a shame there isn’t much the staff can realistically do.

All fair points -- but they weren't footy fans, just neanderthals on the penultimate train back up north.

The train I was on got to the bright lights of Coventry at 2223. When the 2225 XC service arrived a short while later -- well suffice to say the masses of Coventry fans who had been at Southampton duly piled off that. The noise was unbelievable. Glad I wasn't on that one!

 

[Trackman]

IIRC they're converting a carriage on each train to normal standard in the refurb

11 cars Pendos only.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I had a similar experience not so long ago on the way to Brum, normally try and snag cheap SP fares but didn’t on this occasion. A large group of drunk football louts shouting/swearing so loud you could hear them in the next carriage.

Swore never again to travel standard in Avanti after a football match It’s a shame there isn’t much the staff can realistically do.

According to a documentary made back in 2013/2014, a Virgin Trains TM revealed he likes to turn the heating up on football trains… sends the drunks to sleep almost instantly, so he suggested

 

[Furrball]

I had a similar experience not so long ago on the way to Brum, normally try and snag cheap SP fares but didn’t on this occasion. A large group of drunk football louts shouting/swearing so loud you could hear them in the next carriage.

Swore never again to travel standard in Avanti after a football match It’s a shame there isn’t much the staff can realistically do.

There were two guys being very loud, drinking heavily and playing music off their phone in SP yesterday!

I think it was mentioned before but the issue Avanti face is the location of the disabled seating and accessible toilet?

Hence the few first class seats at the weekend in Coach J on 9 car trains

I assume that if Avanti want 2 SP carriages on 11 cars post coach G becoming standard the same will apply to them

It is always going to be messy unless they ditch first class completely as the train layout just does not work?

 

[Falcon1200]

IIRC they're converting a carriage on each train to normal standard in the refurb

11 cars Pendos only.

Indeed, although the 9-car Pendos had the 696xx vehicle converted to Standard Class some years ago so only have 3 First Class coaches already.

 

[peteb]

There were two guys being very loud, drinking heavily and playing music off their phone in SP yesterday!

I think it was mentioned before but the issue Avanti face is the location of the disabled seating and accessible toilet?

Hence the few first class seats at the weekend in Coach J on 9 car trains

I assume that if Avanti want 2 SP carriages on 11 cars post coach G becoming standard the same will apply to them

It is always going to be messy unless they ditch first class completely as the train layout just does not work?

Whatever happened to the alcohol ban on West Coast routed trains on Saturdays when major football matches were scheduled? Was it unenforceable?

 

[Scotrail314209]

Whatever happened to the alcohol ban on West Coast routed trains on Saturdays when major football matches were scheduled? Was it unenforceable?

I do recall just before Virgin Trains ended (last day actually) the train I got on at Preston also had two uniformed enforcers onboard as I think there was a match on in Lancaster. I just remember them all being shepherded out of Coach J by two uniformed bouncers.

 

[island]

I'm still under 50% as to the standard premium upcharge being collected on my Avanti trips.

 

[Howardh]

I'm in standard premium right now, the only one in the coach. £25 upgrade which must be too steep, and no discount for Railcard, however when booking you do get that discount...but only on Avanti site and not if you have a longer journey on the ticket, eg Manchester to London the tickets available, Manchester to Brighton it isn't.
I booked 2 separate tickets, so I could have SP + Railcard discount on this leg for SP.
Think the selling of the ticket needs looking at as it's unavailable on other booking engines too I think?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Think the selling of the ticket needs looking at as it's unavailable on other booking engines too I think?

It's a bit hard for other planners to include it as it's not a standard type of ticket.

 

[Howardh]

It's a bit hard for other planners to include it as it's not a standard type of ticket.

Just chatted to the friendly guard. He suggested that because another Toc is involved the ticket can't be done..yet you can go first even if first isn't available in the second leg...as SP wouldn't be.
He agreed that SP has discount for Railcard, bought online, but not if you walk on and upgrade.
Suggest I write to customer relations!
Think the simplest option would be to allow folks with Railcard to upgrade on the day for their 30% off, then through tickets + underground can be bought in advance.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Just chatted to the friendly guard. He suggested that because another Toc is involved the ticket can't be done..yet you can go first even if first isn't available in the second leg...as SP wouldn't be.
He agreed that SP has discount for Railcard, bought online, but not if you walk on and upgrade.
Suggest I write to customer relations!
Think the simplest option would be to allow folks with Railcard to upgrade on the day for their 30% off, then through tickets + underground can be bought in advance.

If you buy an "Advance Standard Premium single" be it online, from a ticket office etc. The extra cost compared with an Advance Standard single will indeed be smaller compared with buying the Advance Standard single and upgrading on the train.

I have spotted a few times when the Advance Standard Premium single has actually been more expensive than the combined cost of buying an off peak single and upgrading on the train.

I've also occasionally sold Advance Standard Premium singles to customers at the ticket office on the day of travel as they've been cheaper than the equivalent Standard Class single although that's usually only been for shorter journeys of under an hour.

 

[tankmc]

Travelled Avanti first last week and have to say I was disappointed. I don't see the value anymore.

The lounge is fine. The food offering needs improving. A choice of nuts, cheese or a cake thing.

1st is looking very tatty. Service was poor with a crew member just sitting and watching TV on their phone for most of the journey.

No snacks offered, no water offered, food was meh and very small portions. No real meals during the day just pasta or a sandwich. Crew only did 2 drinks services.

Next time I would simply buy standard premium and stock up with my own food and wine before boarding.

 

[Butts]

Travelled Avanti first last week and have to say I was disappointed. I don't see the value anymore.

The lounge is fine. The food offering needs improving. A choice of nuts, cheese or a cake thing.

1st is looking very tatty. Service was poor with a crew member just sitting and watching TV on their phone for most of the journey.

No snacks offered, no water offered, food was meh and very small portions. No real meals during the day just pasta or a sandwich. Crew only did 2 drinks services.

Next time I would simply buy standard premium and stock up with my own food and wine before boarding.

When is the "Airline First Class Service" that was promised scheduled to start ?

Has anyone reminded them about this seemingly false bravado ?

To me it seems the roles have been reversed with the demise of Virgin, LNER seem to have caught up and now surpassed them.

 

[takno]

Travelled Avanti first last week and have to say I was disappointed. I don't see the value anymore.

The lounge is fine. The food offering needs improving. A choice of nuts, cheese or a cake thing.

1st is looking very tatty. Service was poor with a crew member just sitting and watching TV on their phone for most of the journey.

No snacks offered, no water offered, food was meh and very small portions. No real meals during the day just pasta or a sandwich. Crew only did 2 drinks services.

Next time I would simply buy standard premium and stock up with my own food and wine before boarding.

I think this is the problem they aren't going to get past. There's something in the relationship with the staff which means that a significant proportion of them are being allowed to fundamentally not do the job with no consequences. They are probably not filling the menu with more food because the self-same staff are not offering what is there to customers, and then sadly reporting to the bosses that nobody wants it.

 

[island]

I think this is the problem they aren't going to get past. There's something in the relationship with the staff which means that a significant proportion of them are being allowed to fundamentally not do the job with no consequences. They are probably not filling the menu with more food because the self-same staff are not offering what is there to customers, and then sadly reporting to the bosses that nobody wants it.

A frequent occurrence in heavily unionised workplaces where any attempt to manage or monitor performance gets industrial action threatened.

 

[6Gman]

I think this is the problem they aren't going to get past. There's something in the relationship with the staff which means that a significant proportion of them are being allowed to fundamentally not do the job with no consequences. They are probably not filling the menu with more food because the self-same staff are not offering what is there to customers, and then sadly reporting to the bosses that nobody wants it.

Has Avanti not heard of "mystery shoppers" ?