Avanti West Coast - Three classes of travel to be introduced

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Worldwide, 9 Dec 2019.

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  1. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Yeah, Seatfrog is just too much faff for me. If it basically created Weekend First on a weekday, on the other hand, I might well be tempted at the right price. But if it's compulsory reservations I absolutely won't.
     
  2. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    Sensible move if they do it. I've used a "Scottish Executive" ticket on the ECML a couple of times - not sure if it's still available, but it's sold as a Standard Class ticket offering a "complimentary upgrade" to First Class. It says Standard on the ticket and even the reservation coupon. It costs as much as a First Class ticket, but I got it through my standard class-only expenses process without them batting an eyelid.
     
  3. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    Reservations aren't an issue for me, as I usually plan my travel and getting on an Anglo-Scottish train without a reservation is not a good idea. The thing I don't like about Seatfrog is the way it's a gamble. Just quote me a decent price for an upgrade, FFS. They do that now, but it's quite expensive, and the app's user interface is horrible.
     
  4. Scotrail314209

    Scotrail314209 Member

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    When this goes ahead, maybe they could do something similar to Eurostar, First Class get a more substantial and bigger meal offering during the week ala Business Premier, with Premium Economy or whatever it will be called getting a lighter meal. Of course complimentary drinks would be served in both classes.

    Weekends proper first class could be abolished with light meals being served for weekend upgraders and premium.
     
  5. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I don't reckon I'd do that - it's tantamount to fraud - but I bet loads will.
     
  6. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    But that's obviously why the ticket was introduced in the first place. Given the existence of several tiers of pricing for advances in either class, a blanket ban on First Class travel makes no economic sense, anyway. I once travelled from Glasgow to London where the cheapest ticket was in First Class - standard cost £30 more.
     
  7. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Out of curiosity, what don't you like about compulsory reservations? For the kind of medium/long distance journeys this 'premium economy' service is aimed at, I would have thought that most passengers would know at least the day before what their outward travel plans were, even if they needed some flexibility on a return leg.
     
  8. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member Associate Staff General Discussion

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    Someone on the radio earlier claimed that the seats will be created by stripping out some standard class seats and putting in new "Class 1.5" seats in their place rather than by re designating existing first class seats as "Class 1.5".
     
  9. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    Who was this someone?
     
  10. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I would agree a blanket ban makes little sense, but if you are going to have a policy to reduce travel costs a requirement for the cheapest applicable Standard ticket makes more sense.

    It's similarly extremely dodgy practice to book a First Advance because it's cheaper than a Standard Anytime, but where a Standard Advance exists below both. You either need the flexibility or you don't.
     
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Not someone from Avanti, clearly.
     
  12. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    But what if, as I've stated above, the cheapest ticket available is in First Class?
     
  13. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Loss of flexibility when compared to the car.
    Loss of flexibility during disruption that isn't bad enough to wholly lift restrictions.
     
  14. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Then I would allow that - but that situation, while it does occur, is exceptionally rare. I think I've actually seen it once. The fib of comparing a Standard walk-up with a First Advance when there were Standard Advances is much more common (and fraudulent) practice.
     
  15. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    I'm happy to take the loss of flexibility for a better price, and restrictions are usually eased if the proverbial hits the fan anyway.
     
  16. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    Oh, I can think of worse things. At the end of the day, on your head be it if it either means you miss your booked train, or have to wait hours for it.
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I'm not.

    Not adequately. For instance with an Advance I must, unless acceptance is in place, still use the same TOC in the event of a cancellation.
     
  18. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I'm sure there are. But employment is a relationship of trust, and misusing the letter of your expenses rules to get away with something that the spirit of those rules is clearly not intended to allow is a breakdown of that trust, and were I an employer repeatedly doing it would destroy that trust (if they'll abuse it with that, what else might they abuse?) and so I'd be looking for opportunities to get rid.
     
  19. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    Fair enough, but a lot of people are.
     
  20. miami

    miami Member

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    WCML has a turn up an go service to many locations - every 20 minutes from London to Manchester, 20 to Birmingham, 3tph to Crewe, upto 2tph to Liverpool. What's the point in that if you want to stop people having flexibility?

    Even with 1tph services like London to Glasgow, or Birmingham to Glasgow, making a decision to have lunch in a pub before getting on the train, or eating some takeaway food, is a decision not made until maybe 20 minutes before the train leaves.
     
  21. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I'm sure they are, otherwise Advances would not exist - all I'm saying is that I will only use it if I can obtain it at a reasonable walk-up price (to me "reasonable" is no more than 160% of the applicable walk-up Standard fare with no loss of flexibility - e.g. I won't take a TOC restriction or tighter time restrictions to use it unless there is genuinely no scope to use other TOCs in the journey anyway).
     
  22. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    But you can choose to pay for that flexibility if you want it. Nine times out of ten, I'll choose not to pay for it.
     
  23. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member Associate Staff General Discussion

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    Just someone who phoned in so has to be taken with an enormous health warning!
     
  24. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    Well, we've already seen a lot of different interpretations of the idea on here, so it's not entirely certain. I suspect they'll follow the Eurostar model, in splitting First into a full meal service and a light snacks service. It seems to work for them.
     
  25. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    More than 9 times out of 10, I do. The Any Permitted Off Peak Return is my default ticket used for almost all journeys I make.

    Not if the new class doesn't offer a walk-up option, which is what we were discussing!
     
  26. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    It actually sounds like it could be well-suited to an on-train upgrade, and in that case it wouldn't actually matter what ticket you held, as long as it was valid for that particular train.
     
  27. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Indeed. If it basically constituted all-week Weekend First (possibly with an option of advance reservation), like the Chiltern Business Zone, I might well go for it, particularly if the Standard seats are, as suspected, Fainsa Sophias.
     
  28. underbank

    underbank Established Member

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    Even if you "know" your travel plans, unforeseen circumstances can still happen. Connection trains can be late. Traffic at your origin town can be grid-locked. Bad weather. Illness of a child or partner. That's talking about being late. What if you're early? You really don't want to be stuck on a cold platform watching the earlier half empty train depart without you.

    For me, the last remaining benefit of train compared with plane is the flexibility - the "turn up and go" philosophy.
     
  29. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    I haven’t read all of the posts so probably repeating stuff already posted. But I like the idea, I guess you have 2 options:

    1. Use a first class coach (the one nearest standard) but offer no freebies of any kind. You pay for the better seat.

    2. the “silver standard” that BR used to offer. Standard seats nearest the buffet back in the day. Probably closest to London end now. Free tea / coffee off the trolley.

    MML did a version of 1, off peak full fare standard passengers were allowed in a first class coach. Full fare first were in a different coach.

    On shorter journeys however if the did a first class seat with no freebies it could eat into first class revenue. I would certainly be thinking could a buy a meal for the difference in price?
     
  30. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    It is still available and is like a hybrid ticket. Fixed train down any train return. The company i worked for at the time were happy with it for that reason and was cheaper then the standard open when you had no meals to expense.

    However times have changed and now we have the “half price single” (half the return price) it may be harder to justify. But that is a different discussion.
     
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