Avanti West Coast - Three classes of travel to be introduced

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Worldwide, 9 Dec 2019.

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  1. Grumpy Git

    Grumpy Git Member

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    The MML HST buffet car 1st class seats were always declassified when I used the service in the early 80's.
     
  2. JaJaWa

    JaJaWa Established Member

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    Here’s the answer to what it will be – straight from the MD’s mouth:

    Avanti managing director Phil Whittingham, who previously held the same role at Virgin Trains, said: "We know there is going to be three classes. It is going to be a first class, a premium economy-type style and economy."

    He said passengers in premium economy could be entitled to "the bigger seat, better wi-fi and snacks rather than a meal".


    Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...avel-introduced-britains-railways-first-time/
     
  3. ag51ruk

    ag51ruk Member

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    So much scope for confusion amongst passengers here (as there was when First Class was called 'Club Class' on Virgin Cross Country, or when Midland Main Line had a short lived 'Business Class' which was in First Class seats but without the free service) - it works on Eurostar and aircraft because you have an allocated seat that you must use, but I can see this being a real problem for someone with an anytime type ticket who is just looking for somewhere to sit.
     
    Last edited: 10 Dec 2019
  4. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

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    But there is still a hot meal in the evening isn't there? Or do you mean there used to be at weekends and isn't now?
    Also is it possible to upgrade to first-class for £1.50 when challenged?

    The industry frequently has responded to questions of how will you stop my train being so crowded in the future by explaining they wish to manage demand more by the use of more advances.
    Otherwise how can they possibly accommodate everyone on their first choice during the peaks or in a Friday evening or services departing for London on a Saturday morning?
     
  5. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

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    Is anyone able to clarify whether the current WCML First Class meal offering is guaranteed within the price or complementary, or may be withdrawn due to unforeseen circumstance on occasion?
    Are customers able to reclaim the difference in fare if first class meal, or service, was unavailable due to unforeseen circumstances?
     
  6. notlob.divad

    notlob.divad Established Member

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    I am not so sure of that. It will surely be a case of turning Coach K into 'first' and Coaches G,H and J into 'Premium economy'. People can read signs, so as long as it isn't a mix and match where Premium Economy and First are in fact the same seating area, but just a service is different, I cannot see it being a major problem.
    That said nobody will ever convince me of the need for First Class. Better to just have a train you get on and find a seat, (if you can).
     
  7. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

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    Last time I travelled it was best endeavours - you would get a meal if available but if it was not available that was too bad and you'd not see a penny back.

    I still have my concerns about how this is going to work out in practice and I see the new tier being priced very similar to the current first class with First rising more - kind of what "simplification" did a few years ago
     
  8. Grumpy Git

    Grumpy Git Member

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    ................. and decimilisation in February 1971
     
  9. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    My prediction is one of the first class coaches will be given over to the new "premium standard". 2+1 seating with just tea/coffee/water given as freebies, maybe a snack box (similar to the old Weekend First offer) on certain flows.

    Then at weekends, they can do away with having 1st class and just have premium standard & standard to reflect the reduced offer.
     
  10. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    I would think that it would be demand-led pricing with coaches allocated according to demand. Much like Eurostar - coach K is "proper" first a all times and the curtain moves back during the week and during the day.
     
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    That would be my prediction.

    I would expect it to be the other way round, though, with one of the others being proper 1st and not K. K, while it does have the coveted single seats, rather lacks in tables for two.
     
  12. greyman42

    greyman42 Member

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    It does appear so but the coaches in the picture had fixed armrests between the seats so she could not be.
     
  13. Scotrail314209

    Scotrail314209 Member

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    I’ve seen Avanti have a page on their website called “Value” the picture being mock up 3+2 seating on a Pendolino, I hope this isn’t what standard becomes. If so I may refrain from using Avanti as it is not how long distance intercity travel should be done
     
  14. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    At risk of accusing this as being fake news, where exactly - URL please?

    The AWC website isn't very pictorial, I'm struggling to see any pictures on it!
     
  15. Scotrail314209

    Scotrail314209 Member

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    Last edited: 10 Dec 2019
  16. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    It'll be interesting to see how 3+2 will work in an already narrow bodyshell on pendos with reserved seats. 3+2 traditionally in UK has only ever been used on suburban routes where reservations aren't generally a thing so people will redistribute themselves around to fit, and some will be prepared to stand in order to avoid trying to fit in an uncomfortably small space. Imagine the horror of being ensconced in one of these when a REALLY fat person comes down the aisle and asks you to move so they can get to their reserved middle seat. Expect fights! I expect it is discriminatory to refuse a reservation for a seat the person couldn't physically fit in...
     
  17. Scotrail314209

    Scotrail314209 Member

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    FYI, I got the link and picture sent to me by someone, who also thinks it may be real, I can't tell as it looks very official already.
     
  18. Tom Maddox

    Tom Maddox Member

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    Is 3+2 actually happening? Just looking back to post #32 that claims there aren’t going to be any internal changes to the Pendos.
     
  19. Scotrail314209

    Scotrail314209 Member

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    Looks like someone put a hoax out there then (NOT ME)
     
  20. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    Although it wouldn't surprise me if they tried something like it. Have the 3+2 for walk-up fares and the 2+2 standard reserved for advance tickets only with no standing allowed.
     
  21. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

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    Thing is that actually does look like a 390 shell and with the view out the window and the people stood there like they were just caught in the shot by accident. It doesn't look CGI'd at all imo. Even the coat hook between the window is there. Although the windows perhaps look slightly more 800 with the groove for the blind.

    Looking at that right hand row of seats, one looks to be reclined. Didn't a poster say earlier up they went to a brand roadshow and there were some people reclining on some seats?
     
  22. option

    option Member

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    /onboard is a real part of their website

    & that photo is a train in a depot, & there's people on it at the far end, & plastic sheeting on the floor.
    Though the luggage rack looks wrong, no 'reserved' indicator screens.
     
  23. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

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    Aye. But it looks like that might be covered up with a wide masking tape?
     
  24. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member Associate Staff General Discussion

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    You must be joking surely - 2+2 is bad enough in standard on a Pendo, but 3+2. o_O
     
  25. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It looks a bit too wide to work, to be honest. I suspect it might well indeed be real and a Pendolino - but one in another country where they indeed do have 3+2. Scandinavia maybe? Their loading gauge is very wide.

    The spotlights also look fake, they're in the glass part of the rack yet shaped like the current ones.

    It looks like the kind of thing one of the spoof Tweeters would do.

    For a start, there aren't any Pendolinos in the refurb works yet!
     
  26. option

    option Member

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  27. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Beat me to it. It looks like the Finnish interior though I can't find any evidence of 3+2 there. Perhaps there was some sort of pilot?

    Though VT of course did propose to actually do this originally!
     
  28. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    It looks like a European Gauge carriage rather than Standard Gauge. Its three seats and still a wide aisle.
     
  29. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Found it - it's Chinese, I think the CRH5A. Thought it might be them as Standard is 3+2 on all their (very wide) high speed trains:

    [​IMG]
    CRH5 interior in Standard

    They do seem to be very slightly different seats (no armrests) but it's definitely that interior. The lights and racks are correct.
     
  30. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Japan also has 3+2 in Standard on most Shinkansen, First ("Green Class") is 2+2. They have a few select routes with Premium which is 2+1.
     
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