Avanti West Coast timetable

[Agent_Squash]

But it does need direct trains from Glasgow ! It is bad enough having to change at all to get between Scotland's largest and England's second city, never mind having to hang around for 45 minutes at Warrington, Wigan or Preston northbound.

Why not just go up to Manchester and catch the TPE? The whole point of the fast Glasgow is that it skips everywhere else so the North West has a fast service which isn't overloaded. If you stop at Crewe and fill it up with connecting passengers, you'll need 2tph.

 

[Falcon1200]

Why not just go up to Manchester and catch the TPE?

Maybe a misunderstanding here, I am discussing the lack of through trains between Glasgow and Birmingham. And BTW, thanks to TPE's current troubles, there are very few direct trains between Glasgow and Manchester too.

On my recent Birmingham-Glasgow journeys I have simply taken an Avanti Edinburgh service and changed at Haymarket for Queen St, this is hardly slower than waiting the 45 minutes somewhere for an Avanti Glasgow train. Fortunately I have a pass, and the knowledge, to allow me to do this, not everyone does of course.

 

[cle]

It does seem that Glasgow is getting the short end here. The Blackpool solution is stupid. Even Lancaster would be more useful.

Are the Liverpool-Glasgows running at least?

 

[Agent_Squash]

Maybe a misunderstanding here, I am discussing the lack of through trains between Glasgow and Birmingham. And BTW, thanks to TPE's current troubles, there are very few direct trains between Glasgow and Manchester too.

On my recent Birmingham-Glasgow journeys I have simply taken an Avanti Edinburgh service and changed at Haymarket for Queen St, this is hardly slower than waiting the 45 minutes somewhere for an Avanti Glasgow train. Fortunately I have a pass, and the knowledge, to allow me to do this, not everyone does of course.

I'm fully aware you were discussing the lack of through trains - it is something that needs to be resolved soon, but worsening the service for others (slowing down the xx30 off Euston) isn't the way in my opinion.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Are the Liverpool-Glasgows running at least?

Currently only 1 or 2 each way per day but not Sundays. Anyone able to advise what happens when the new timetable comes into force?

 

[Peter0124]

It does seem that Glasgow is getting the short end here. The Blackpool solution is stupid. Even Lancaster would be more useful.

Are the Liverpool-Glasgows running at least?

Should be two per day each way from the May timetable change. With the TPE Glasgow Manchester being almost full service aswell (bar the pre covid 21.10ish Manchester Airport - Glasgow service).

I'm fully aware you were discussing the lack of through trains - it is something that needs to be resolved soon, but worsening the service for others (slowing down the xx30 off Euston) isn't the way in my opinion.

What happens if the two hourly Glasgow via Birmingham doesn't return? I really hope it does.

 

[Agent_Squash]

What happens if the two hourly Glasgow via Birmingham doesn't return? I really hope it does.

Then a new 1tp2h needs to be introduced between Euston and Lancaster (at a minimum), first stop WBQ. But, as you say, I hope it never comes to that.

 

[Watershed]

Currently only 1 or 2 each way per day but not Sundays. Anyone able to advise what happens when the new timetable comes into force?

2 per day each way, with some short workings at the start/end of day.

 

[Some guy]

But it does need direct trains from Glasgow ! It is bad enough having to change at all to get between Scotland's largest and England's second city, never mind having to hang around for 45 minutes at Warrington, Wigan or Preston northbound.

From may if you pick the Edinburgh services up you can change at Preston or Carlisle for a TPE Glasgow in 10 minutes

 

[Peter0124]

From may if you pick the Edinburgh services up you can change at Preston or Carlisle for a TPE Glasgow in 10 minutes

I hope that won't be the long term solution to the Crewe(or Birmingham) - Glasgow link

 

[Some guy]

I hope that won't be the long term solution to the Crewe(or Birmingham) - Glasgow link

It definitely isn’t as some say on this forum the services are scheduled back for December meaning it’s back to 3tph on the north WCML to Scotland

 

[Starmill]

The point about Birmingham - Glasgow through trains has been regularly discussed for quite some time. As far as I am aware there's no settled view on their return (other than the 1915 from Birmingham New Street, and of course the 0748 CrossCountry from Glasgow Central and 1203 and 1403 from Birmingham New Street).

 

[Esker-pades]

The point about Birmingham - Glasgow through trains has been regularly discussed for quite some time. As far as I am aware there's no settled view on their return (other than the 1915 from Birmingham New Street, and of course the 0748 CrossCountry from Glasgow Central and 1203 and 1403 from Birmingham New Street).

except the people who can see the Dec '22 timetable have said they're in

 

[Watershed]

except the people who can see the Dec '22 timetable have said they're in

At this stage that doesn't really guarantee anything, other than that Avanti would like to reserve the right to run those trains. There is plenty of stuff currently in the December TT that might reasonably be described as 'fanciful'.

 

[Starmill]

except the people who can see the Dec '22 timetable have said they're in

As above, the point is contested rather than this description of events. Nobody suggests that this means that they're gone for good.

If they do return without the slots between London and Preston which get overtaken at Rugby to form Blackpool North services, there will be a very odd Blackpool Avanti service, or possibly none at all.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

At this stage that doesn't really guarantee anything, other than that Avanti would like to reserve the right to run those trains. There is plenty of stuff currently in the December TT that might reasonably be described as 'fanciful'.

Eh, if there was no plan for the trains to return, the paths would have been removed from the Dec 22 timetable. Doesn't mean they will return in Dec 22 though, they might return later.

 

[Watershed]

Eh, if there was no plan for the trains to return, the paths would have been removed from the Dec 22 timetable. Doesn't mean they will return in Dec 22 though, they might return later.

I agree; certainly they could have reduced the 80x order by now if there was no intention to resume these services. Similarly with the N Wales sales. Unfortunately I get the impression Avanti feel under very little pressure to resume something approaching the pre-Covid timetable. It's even worse over at XC!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I agree; certainly they could have reduced the 80x order by now if there was no intention to resume these services. Similarly with the N Wales sales. Unfortunately I get the impression Avanti feel under very little pressure to resume something approaching the pre-Covid timetable.

Bearing in mind Avanti are really struggling with high sickness levels to cover the existing service it’s quite futile to plan running additional services till the existing problems are resolved.

 

[Bald Rick]

Bearing in mind Avanti are really struggling with high sickness levels to cover the existing service it’s quite futile to plan running additional services till the existing problems are resolved.

there’s a difference between putting the trains in the timetable, and planning to run the services.

 

[stantheman]

What determines whether a service is a 9 or 11 car Pendolino ?

 

[Jamesrob637]

What determines whether a service is a 9 or 11 car Pendolino ?

If it's at a peak time, it'll be a 9-car

 

[507020]

Realtime Trains | 1C93 1017 Crewe to Lancaster | 01/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 1C93 1017 departure from Crewe to Lancaster on 01/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

What are they doing on Sunday with one service running Crewe - Lancaster via Castlefield and Bolton, running empty to Carnforth to reverse, with all further Crewe - Lancaster services running via Chat Moss and Golborne? There is then a following TPE Preston - Oxenholme and yet another for Oxenholme Windermere. Other than the doubled frequency for Preston - Lancaster, why not (although this would likely require electrification) plan to run a through train from Crewe - Windermere via Bolton?

 

[jamess]

They are both in the Dec 22 timetable, fast off Euston at xx.30, West Mids at xx.40

Are you able to give an idea as to what a standard hours departures look like from Eus for Dec 22? The via Birmingham Scotland service would have been xx.43 previously, so clearly some changes.
thanks

 

[nw1]

At this stage that doesn't really guarantee anything, other than that Avanti would like to reserve the right to run those trains. There is plenty of stuff currently in the December TT that might reasonably be described as 'fanciful'.

The thing is that Birmingham to Glasgow is a very long standing service which dates from the blue-and-grey days, as through services mostly every two hours, at around xx05 even hours (with one random gap in the afternoon) existed as long ago as 1981. That alone would be grounds, I'd have thought, to keep it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The thing is that Birmingham to Glasgow is a very long standing service which dates from the blue-and-grey days, as through services mostly every two hours, at around xx05 even hours (with one random gap in the afternoon) existed as long ago as 1981. That alone would be grounds, I'd have thought, to keep it.

I'd be more interested in how busy it is than that, travel patterns change over the years. There'd be a reasonable case to send them all to Edinburgh, as that tends to be much higher demand.

 

[nw1]

I'd be more interested in how busy it is than that, travel patterns change over the years. There'd be a reasonable case to send them all to Edinburgh, as that tends to be much higher demand.

Quite surprised to be honest as Glasgow is a bigger city, albeit less touristic - but I don't know. Also there are already Edinburgh services on XC via Newcastle.

But I will admit this is just speculation based on the fact that Birmingham and Glasgow are such large cities, 2nd and 3rd in the UK I think?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite surprised to be honest as Glasgow is a bigger city, albeit less touristic - but I don't know. Also there are already Edinburgh services on XC via Newcastle.

But I will admit this is just speculation based on the fact that Birmingham and Glasgow are such large cities, 2nd and 3rd in the UK I think?

The tourist demand means Edinburgh is hugely more popular as a destination than Glasgow. Pre COVID the Edinburghs were far busier, same with the TPEs from Manchester.

Part of that is that they offer cheap Advances, though.

Glasgow is a bigger city (and one I quite like) but it's of more significance to people within the Central Belt than travel from London, Birmingham etc.

 

[Falcon1200]

I'd be more interested in how busy it is than that, travel patterns change over the years. There'd be a reasonable case to send them all to Edinburgh, as that tends to be much higher demand.

Agree that Edinburgh is a major traffic draw, but IMHO alternating the hourly trains between there and Glasgow provided an appropriate level of service to both, especially when TPE were running a full service (I can just remember those far-off days) and there was a TPE Glasgow train close behind an Avanti Edinburgh, and vice versa.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think sending 2/3 of services to Edinburgh and 1/3 to Glasgow has been aired as a better business balance, but Glasgow won't hear of any reduction.
Apparently there's no prospect of more than 3tph (Avanti/TPE) north of Carlisle because of the freight impact.
It will all have to be thought through again for HS2 services as well.

 

[krus_aragon]

They are both in the Dec 22 timetable, fast off Euston at xx.30, West Mids at xx.40

Forgive me for not being fully up to speed, but is the planned recast of the WCML timetable (and TfW) still expected to go ahead in December '22, or are these tweaks going on while the recast is deferred?