Avanti West Coast timetable

[Kite159]

I find it a bit funny how Avanti are advertising quite a bit on the radio station I listen to at work, when they are running a heavily reduced timetable (which I suspect have also reduced the number of 'cheaper' advances available due to the reduction of seats per hour)

I would imagine weekend trains are very busy at times, not the best impression to get passengers back.

 

[dk1]

I find it a bit funny how Avanti are advertising quite a bit on the radio station I listen to at work, when they are running a heavily reduced timetable (which I suspect have also reduced the number of 'cheaper' advances available due to the reduction of seats per hour)

I would imagine weekend trains are very busy at times, not the best impression to get passengers back.

Usually more trains at the weekend ironically.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I will be speaking to Avanti later, perhaps I could claim Delay Repay for missing the 1110 and getting to Glasgow an hour late on the 1210 ?!!

As you’ve said on a public forum you turned up in time for the train at 11.10 and caught I wouldn’t recommend saying you missed it and had to catch the next one. There’s plenty of us in the industry who watch this forum…

However do take up how you were able to be booked on a train that had been retimed earlier.

 

[dk1]

So, we did indeed depart at 1110, fortunately we got to Euston in time ! I caught the 1110 several times in 2020 and 2021, and understand the reason for the retaining, however the 1130 shown on the ticket and yesterday's email is indeed baffling. I will be speaking to Avanti later, perhaps I could claim Delay Repay for missing the 1110 and getting to Glasgow an hour late on the 1210 ?!!

But you would have to forever live with yourself knowing an untruth was told.

 

[philosopher]

Usually more trains at the weekend ironically.

It does seem a bit odd they can run 3 trains an hour to Manchester and 2 an hour to the West Midlands on weekends but only 1 to each for most of the day on weekdays. I would have thought issues with crew resourcing would be more of a problem on the weekend, not during the week.

 

[JonathanH]

It does seem a bit odd they can run 3 trains an hour to Manchester and 2 an hour to the West Midlands on weekends but only 1 to each for most of the day on weekdays. I would have thought issues with crew resourcing would be more of a problem on the weekend, not during the week.

Doesn't it just reflect the current level of demand? People want to get to 'events' at the weekend. During the week they work and don't travel for that work.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It does seem a bit odd they can run 3 trains an hour to Manchester and 2 an hour to the West Midlands on weekends but only 1 to each for most of the day on weekdays. I would have thought issues with crew resourcing would be more of a problem on the weekend, not during the week.

Indeed doesn't add up.

 

[Watershed]

It does seem a bit odd they can run 3 trains an hour to Manchester and 2 an hour to the West Midlands on weekends but only 1 to each for most of the day on weekdays. I would have thought issues with crew resourcing would be more of a problem on the weekend, not during the week.

It's possible that they have made a purposive decision to use more traincrew on the weekend. If they've had sufficient time to re-link all the work, the redistribution of rest days etc. could mean that it's possible to resource 3tph on the weekend, but not on weekdays.

But given the short timescales involved, I have to say that seems rather unlikely. And it seems much more likely that this is the legacy of a deliberate, vain decision by the DfT to save a bit of cash.

 

[dk1]

It's possible that they have made a purposive decision to use more traincrew on the weekend. If they've had sufficient time to re-link all the work, the redistribution of rest days etc. could mean that it's possible to resource 3tph on the weekend, but not on weekdays.

I would very much doubt any rest days have been moved. Altering any links/rosters is a very difficult process & would have to be agreed with the unions which is highly unlikely.

 

[Falcon1200]

As you’ve said on a public forum you turned up in time for the train at 11.10 and caught I wouldn’t recommend saying you missed it and had to catch the next one.

I won't, I wasn't being serious (although it would be an interesting test case if someone did miss the train in my circumstances).

But you would have to forever live with yourself knowing an untruth was told.

That is true !

So, today I have complained to Avanti, even that was made more difficult than it should be; Maximum number of characters is 5000 but there is no way of knowing how many you have used, and I was initially unable to submit the complaint due to an error message saying 'Please use proper characters'. By process of elimination I discovered that semi-colons are for some reason not regarded by Avanti as 'proper characters' ! Anyway, the complaint is in and I will report back further.

 

[Watershed]

I would very much doubt any rest days have been moved. Altering any links/rosters is a very difficult process & would have to be agreed with the unions which is highly unlikely.

If sufficient notice is given then at most TOCs the link/roster can be changed, consensually or otherwise. But I doubt that's the case here.

 

[andystock22]

Indeed doesn't add up.

Think it could be due to higher demand at weekends. Avanti West Coast don't really have mass numbers of commuters and the business travel market in the UK is very weak.

They're now more of a leisure based operator.

LNER also report strong demand at weekends and holiday periods.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Think it could be due to higher demand at weekends. Avanti West Coast don't really have mass numbers of commuters and the business travel market in the UK is very weak.

They're now more of a leisure based operator.

LNER also report strong demand at weekends and holiday periods.

Its seems bizarre though that LNER didn't reduce that much and will be back upto full schedule from next week but AWC aren't. The last update that Doft released on operator support showed that LNER was costing more per passenger in support than AWC.

 

[stew]

Has anyone seen the loadings on the West Coast? Are they increasing again?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

One of the big reasons why the emergency timetables haven't been introduced at the weekend as because then that means all of the planned timetables to divert around engineering works have to be rewritten and there isn't the planning resource to do that. There's barely the planning resource to rewrite and valdalidate the timetables around the cyclical SX possessions as it is.

Also, I don't know about this but I expect the DfT are happy for operators to run a full Saturday service on Saturday regardless even if there was the planning resource to redo the timetables due to the higher passenger numbers.

 

[Bald Rick]

Think it could be due to higher demand at weekends. Avanti West Coast don't really have mass numbers of commuters and the business travel market in the UK is very weak.

They're now more of a leisure based operator.

LNER also report strong demand at weekends and holiday periods.

It is most likely to be the same as the issue at GTR - replanning weekends (again - they’ve already been replaced for engineering works) takes just as long as replanning the whole working week. Therefore leave the weekends as (re)planned halves the amount of planning time needed, and means the planners can concentrate on more important things, like rewriting the whole timetable for December.

 

[Falcon1200]

Avanti have responded to my complaint (about the 1130 Euston-Glasgow being retimed to 1110), quoting the reasons for short notice timetable changes as pandemic-affected Government guidance and reduced passenger numbers, and Network Rail engineering work (the last of course having no effect whatsoever on midweek middle of the day services). What they have not addressed is why they told me less than 24 hours before travel that the train was at 1130, so I have asked that question again.

Has anyone seen the loadings on the West Coast? Are they increasing again?

The 1130 1110 (see previous posts !) Euston-Glasgow C on Monday was very quiet in Standard Premium with never more than about 8 passengers in each of the two coaches. I walked through Standard to the buffet and this was busier, but certainly not more than 50% full. However this is winter with the schools in, hopefully business will pick up.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

I won't, I wasn't being serious (although it would be an interesting test case if someone did miss the train in my circumstances).



That is true !

So, today I have complained to Avanti, even that was made more difficult than it should be; Maximum number of characters is 5000 but there is no way of knowing how many you have used, and I was initially unable to submit the complaint due to an error message saying 'Please use proper characters'. By process of elimination I discovered that semi-colons are for some reason not regarded by Avanti as 'proper characters' ! Anyway, the complaint is in and I will report back further.

Was that through their website? It really is appalling.

 

[RailWonderer]

Why has Avanti gone for so long without even a clockface timetable? Now its clockface but hourly since they removed the xx:40 Manchester leaving just the xx:20 and the xx:59s to Brum have gone. I understand the service reduction was due to Covid reduced demand and now it's more about cash saving but the services I have used were solidly loaded bar for the front coach.

4 Avanti tph off Euston is completely unacceptable whatever the excuse.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Why has Avanti gone for so long without even a clockface timetable? Now its clockface but hourly since they removed the xx:40 Manchester leaving just the xx:20 and the xx:59s to Brum have gone. I understand the service reduction was due to Covid reduced demand and now it's more about cash saving but the services I have used were solidly loaded bar for the front coach.

4 Avanti tph off Euston is completely unacceptable whatever the excuse.

Because that is the level of service the specifier/funder (DfT) has instructed them to operate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why has Avanti gone for so long without even a clockface timetable? Now its clockface but hourly since they removed the xx:40 Manchester leaving just the xx:20 and the xx:59s to Brum have gone. I understand the service reduction was due to Covid reduced demand and now it's more about cash saving but the services I have used were solidly loaded bar for the front coach.

4 Avanti tph off Euston is completely unacceptable whatever the excuse.

COVID is still high and so staffing is still a big issue.

 

[Falcon1200]

Was that through their website? It really is appalling.

Yes it was, and yes it is !

 

[JonathanH]

4 Avanti tph off Euston is completely unacceptable whatever the excuse.

Why? You have pointed out that the capacity is almost exactly meeting demand.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes it was, and yes it is !

I suspect it's just badly translated from the Italian. I don't speak Italian, but as a Romance language it's probably similar to the French des lettres propres, which essentially means A-Z, a-z, 0-9 and not a lot else. It isn't really translated as "proper".

Doesn't make it OK but does explain it a bit.

What it does show is that their developers are too lazy and pig-ignorant just to URLencode the value, thus removing any "SQL injection"* threat it might pose, no need to ban any specific letter.

* This is where badly written software allows a user to "sneak in" a SQL statement of their own, and ; often allows this in such badly written software because this is the "end of statement" character.

Why? You have pointed out that the capacity is almost exactly meeting demand.

Because of the pseudocompulsory reservations (only enthusiasts will know that this can be easily bypassed) they are probably turning considerable numbers of people away.

 

[James90012]

Its seems bizarre though that LNER didn't reduce that much and will be back upto full schedule from next week but AWC aren't. The last update that Doft released on operator support showed that LNER was costing more per passenger in support than AWC.

Interesting, and fits the narrative that LNER yield is down, i.e. lower fares but similar passenger numbers. Avanti is probably the opposite as there are so few advance fares available so yield or fare per passenger is probably good but passenger numbers are suppressed.

 

[RailWonderer]

Why? You have pointed out that the capacity is almost exactly meeting demand.

Not always about capacity and demand. Longer waiting times and longer connections are just encouraing me to drive more and many others are the same.

Because of the pseudocompulsory reservations (only enthusiasts will know that this can be easily bypassed) they are probably turning considerable numbers of people away.

I sit in the least busy end coach if I know the service will be busy and if I'm not sure then I take a risk that the person doesn't sit in the reserved seat either.

 

[dk1]

COVID is still high and so staffing is still a big issue.

Must be certain areas. Traincrew sickness is nothing more than normal from what I see daily.

 

[James90012]

16.20 off Euston to Manchester full and standing in standard... be interesting to know how busy the 16.35 is but clearly the demand is there for 3tph on a Friday evening.

 

[Peter0124]

16.20 off Euston to Manchester full and standing in standard... be interesting to know how busy the 16.35 is but clearly the demand is there for 3tph on a Friday evening.

Yes I am wondering why Fridays were omitted from the new weekend timetable cause you could say Friday evening is part of the weekend.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes I am wondering why Fridays were omitted from the new weekend timetable cause you could say Friday evening is part of the weekend.

there isn’t a new weekend timetable. It’s the old one.

1635 was busy but seats available.