Avanti West Coast timetable

[Falcon1200]

Avanti have responded to my complaint (about the 1130 Euston-Glasgow being retimed to 1110), quoting the reasons for short notice timetable changes as pandemic-affected Government guidance and reduced passenger numbers, and Network Rail engineering work (the last of course having no effect whatsoever on midweek middle of the day services). What they have not addressed is why they told me less than 24 hours before travel that the train was at 1130, so I have asked that question again.

Avanti WC have responded to my follow-up complaint, but only to confirm that tickets for missed (being re-timed earlier) services would be accepted on other trains. They have not answered the two key questions I asked, namely whether Delay Repay would be agreed for a passenger who missed their retimed earlier service and therefore reached their destination (at least) one hour late, and why they advised me by email the wrong train time less than 24 hours before travel. I have no confidence in ever receiving a satisfactory response so I have given up. All I can say, and please note this is not directed in any way at the Avanti staff providing the service at the coal face, is that WC is an entirely accurate description of their service which, quite frankly, compared to the likes of LNER is well and truly down the toilet.

 

[The Prisoner]

Anyone know if AWC are ever going to reinstate the Chester and North Wales services to anything approaching a useable service?

I have a theory that they are just doing what they want on the WCML as there is no competition from open access - you have three on the east coast with various provisions.

 

[dk1]

Anyone know if AWC are ever going to reinstate the Chester and North Wales services to anything approaching a useable service?

I have a theory that they are just doing what they want on the WCML as there is no competition from open access - you have three on the east coast with various provisions.

Should do in time. There’s a fleet of 805s being built to work the route after all.

 

[Peter0124]

Anyone know if AWC are ever going to reinstate the Chester and North Wales services to anything approaching a useable service?

I have a theory that they are just doing what they want on the WCML as there is no competition from open access - you have three on the east coast with various provisions.

I think from May it starts to get a lot better

 

[Huntergreed]

I think from May it starts to get a lot better

I’ve looked at the May timetable.

It seems that the XX:10 path from Euston (currently used by the Glasgow trains, which are getting their old XX:30 path back) is going to be given back to the Chester services, which are going back to hourly for most of the day (minus the 15:10 off Euston which, for some reason, has no service allocated to that path).

What I’m hugely disappointed to see is that there are still no Glasgow to Euston via Birmingham services. I’m starting to fear these may never return at this rate, these were very useful and often well loaded.

I wonder if Glasgow crews are still able to work 221’s. Must be approaching a year since they sent one up that way.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I’ve looked at the May timetable.

It seems that the XX:10 path from Euston (currently used by the Glasgow trains, which are getting their old XX:30 path back) is going to be given back to the Chester services, which are going back to hourly for most of the day (minus the 15:10 off Euston which, for some reason, has no service allocated to that path).

What I’m hugely disappointed to see is that there are still no Glasgow to Euston via Birmingham services. I’m starting to fear these may never return at this rate, these were very useful and often well loaded.

I wonder if Glasgow crews are still able to work 221’s. Must be approaching a year since they sent one up that way.

The Glasgow trains had already returned to the xx:30 path a while back. They have just re-gone back to the xx:10 path temperarily for the 4tph out of Euston timetable so that a Crewe stop can be added in.

 

[Esker-pades]

I’ve looked at the May timetable.

It seems that the XX:10 path from Euston (currently used by the Glasgow trains, which are getting their old XX:30 path back) is going to be given back to the Chester services, which are going back to hourly for most of the day (minus the 15:10 off Euston which, for some reason, has no service allocated to that path).

What I’m hugely disappointed to see is that there are still no Glasgow to Euston via Birmingham services. I’m starting to fear these may never return at this rate, these were very useful and often well loaded.

I wonder if Glasgow crews are still able to work 221’s. Must be approaching a year since they sent one up that way.

The May timetable is still up in the air (see other threads), so be cautious.

The Dec '22 re-structure of the WCML is the point to look at. The Glasgow-Birmingham-London trains can run in the new structure. I doubt they'll be permanently removed; you'll see them back at some point.

Depending on when the new 80x stock comes in, there won't be a need for 221s to run under the wires the whole way. 221s are diagrammed to be on some Edinburgh turns, so I'd think route knowledge is still there.

 

[dereksingh291]

when are the 805s & 807s entering passenger service and what happen to the 221s once they are replaced by new trains?

 

[The Planner]

when are the 805s & 807s entering passenger service and what happen to the 221s once they are replaced by new trains?

805s and 807s are late, they will appear during 2023.

 

[Watershed]

when are the 805s & 807s entering passenger service

I think it's safe to assume no earlier than this December - none have even been delivered yet. Realistically, the introduction will start at some point next year.

what happen to the 221s once they are replaced by new trains?

That's a very good question - everyone involved is being very coy about this. As usual, there are countless rumours swirling around, but the most plausible suggestions seem to be them going off-lease, or else some/all going to XC.

 

[pemma]

I've observed there are off-peak trains on the Manchester to London route in March which are already showing no standard class seats available to reserve, despite the full timetable of 3tph currently being advertised. If they can't run that I think it's going to solely down to staffing issues and not passenger numbers being too low.

 

[Watershed]

I've observed there are off-peak trains on the Manchester to London route in March which are already showing no standard class seats available to reserve, despite the full timetable of 3tph currently being advertised. If they can't run that I think it's going to solely down to staffing issues and not passenger numbers being too low.

Is it consistently one service each hour (e.g. xx55) which is showing as unavailable? If so this suggests that are holding back on releasing reservations until they are confident of what they will be running.

 

[pemma]

Is it consistently one service each hour (e.g. xx55) which is showing as unavailable? If so this suggests that are holding back on releasing reservations until they are confident of what they will be running.

Every departure from 09:15 to 10:15 inclusive have had no standard class reservations on some days when I searched the other day.

 

[JonathanH]

Every departure from 09:15 to 10:15 inclusive have had no standard class reservations on some days when I searched the other day.

They could be full (to the level of available reservations) at that time of day.

 

[DarloRich]

Got the 1250 from mkc to manchester picc on friday and it was RAMMED. barely a sest in standard depite a few people making suitcase forts out of thier pair of seats!

It was like an early am peak train into euston

 

[Esker-pades]

I think it's safe to assume no earlier than this December - none have even been delivered yet. Realistically, the introduction will start at some point next year.

And also can't start until the timetable is re-structured as they can't meet the 221 tilting path timings.

 

[Watershed]

And also can't start until the timetable is re-structured as they can't meet the 221 tilting path timings.

That hasn't stopped other operators from substituting slower stock, but yes.

 

[Jimini]

That hasn't stopped other operators from substituting slower stock, but yes.

There's precious little slack in the WCML timings though, to my novice understanding? If all those 110/125EPS speed limits remain then when non-tilting stock arrive it'll be slower all round, whether we like it or not?

 

[dk1]

Huge amount of staff training to do at Avanti in the next year or so.

 

[Mag_seven]

I wonder if Glasgow crews are still able to work 221’s. Must be approaching a year since they sent one up that way.

At the moment there is at least one service a day to / from Glasgow that is 221 operated I believe.

 

[Esker-pades]

That hasn't stopped other operators from substituting slower stock, but yes.

Ah, yes. The messier world of 'on the day' operators compared to a theoretical future.

There's precious little slack in the WCML timings though, to my novice understanding? If all those 110/125EPS speed limits remain then when non-tilting stock arrive it'll be slower all round, whether we like it or not?

There are some line speed increases for non-tilting stock due. I wouldn't say the new timetable will be "slower all round".

 

[Trackman]

Got the 1250 from mkc to manchester picc on friday and it was RAMMED. barely a sest in standard depite a few people making suitcase forts out of thier pair of seats!

It was like an early am peak train into euston

In my experience a lot of Friday services were rammed before the timetable change.
Today's not been much better, not including the Stockport incident people have been sitting on the floor from Euston.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Avanti WC have responded to my follow-up complaint, but only to confirm that tickets for missed (being re-timed earlier) services would be accepted on other trains. They have not answered the two key questions I asked, namely whether Delay Repay would be agreed for a passenger who missed their retimed earlier service and therefore reached their destination (at least) one hour late, and why they advised me by email the wrong train time less than 24 hours before travel. I have no confidence in ever receiving a satisfactory response so I have given up. All I can say, and please note this is not directed in any way at the Avanti staff providing the service at the coal face, is that WC is an entirely accurate description of their service which, quite frankly, compared to the likes of LNER is well and truly down the toilet.

It's bad, but I don't know why you say "compared to the likes of LNER," who in my experience, are just as bad for unprofessional customer service as Avanti are. They're the two worst culprits, I find.

 

[pemma]

Got the 1250 from mkc to manchester picc on friday and it was RAMMED. barely a sest in standard depite a few people making suitcase forts out of thier pair of seats!

It was like an early am peak train into euston

It doesn't help that currently they call at Milton Keynes and Macclesfield, rather than one or the other.

 

[Falcon1200]

I don't know why you say "compared to the likes of LNER,"

I say that from personal experience of my journeys in the last two weeks, one with LNER and three with Avanti WC:

My LNER train ran as advertised and a full catering service was provided throughout;
One Avanti train was retimed 20 minutes earlier than the time printed on my ticket, and an email less than 24 hours before departure still showed the wrong time ! Only by pure chance did I discover the mistake and catch the train, otherwise I would have been delayed over an hour; And as detailed in my post you quoted, after two complaints Avanti have failed to provide any meaningful response.
Another Avanti train had minimal catering for half of the journey, the train was also delayed around 15 minutes but there was not one word from the Train Manager regarding this.

It has got to the point where, even though it means a longer journey, my preference for Glasgow/London travel is now with LNER, not Avanti WC.

 

[DarloRich]

It doesn't help that currently they call at Milton Keynes and Macclesfield, rather than one or the other.

No issue from my pov. The service at mkc is still adequate.

 

[pemma]

No issue from my pov. The service at mkc is still adequate.

I was meaning services carry additional passengers due to the Macclesfield ones being on the same train as the Milton Keynes passengers, rather than separate trains. Presumably on the train you were on passengers alighted at Macclesfield and if they weren't there then it would have meant more seats for people like you?

 

[Welshman]

I say that from personal experience of my journeys in the last two weeks, one with LNER and three with Avanti WC:

My LNER train ran as advertised and a full catering service was provided throughout;
One Avanti train was retimed 20 minutes earlier than the time printed on my ticket, and an email less than 24 hours before departure still showed the wrong time ! Only by pure chance did I discover the mistake and catch the train, otherwise I would have been delayed over an hour; And as detailed in my post you quoted, after two complaints Avanti have failed to provide any meaningful response.
Another Avanti train had minimal catering for half of the journey, the train was also delayed around 15 minutes but there was not one word from the Train Manager regarding this.

It has got to the point where, even though it means a longer journey, my preference for Glasgow/London travel is now with LNER, not Avanti WC.

On the 25th January, I noticed AWC had reinstated the 0910 Euston-North Wales service into the timetable for this week commencing 14th February, and booked Mrs Welshman on to it, and have an e-ticket for an Advance single, so they have my account details available.
By sheer chance I happened to notice last week that its been taken out again, fortunately saving her from turning up for a non-existent train. I'm still waiting for AWC to inform me of this late cancellation, but am not holding my breath.
The service to North Wales is at its worst now than for many years - 1 through train per day, with none at weekends. AWC have responded saying they are running Crewe-Holyhead shuttles, but these are in the times of the former through services to/from Euston, and connections at Crewe are atrocious.

Following this experience, I too, am cautious about their restoring services from May. An actual train on the tracks is worth two in the supposed timetable.

 

[Geezertronic]

The Avanti Birmingham weekday services seem dire at the moment, I often find myself on LNWR trains rather than Avanti trains on the return journey (fast to Crewe and change at Rugby for the local service), to Euston is a LNWR train and change at Rugby for an Avanti train.

 

[Watershed]

The Avanti Birmingham weekday services seem dire at the moment, I often find myself on LNWR trains rather than Avanti trains on the return journey (fast to Crewe and change at Rugby for the local service), to Euston is a LNWR train and change at Rugby for an Avanti train.

Indeed. With Avanti operating just 1tph, and LNR having sped up their service, journey opportunities from Birmingham to London now look like this: