Avanti's serial cancellations of last trains

[dk1]

Standby RRBs aren't unknown, LNR had 2 at Bletchley during the calamitous 230 introduction.

GA had them based daily at Yarmouth, Norwich & Ipswich in the bad old days before total fleet renewal.

 

[Moonshot]

Yet I am unable to remember a time when BR were regularly cancelling last trains to and from major WCML destinations, let alone the last three.

Also, in my experience BR were pretty good at getting you where you needed to if an incident meant that said last train was cancelled.

Makes you wonder why government were so keen to introduce franchises......why try to fix a system that wasn't broken? Interestingly, the ex BR employees I work with all mention the fact that the best time for BR was when sectorisation was introduced.....the pre cursor to franchises.

 

[A0wen]

Given the capacity of a pendolino Vs a coach you'd also need a fleet of busses to replace one train let alone multiple cancellations.

Not that simple - quite often the last Avanti's from Euston leave less than 3/4 full, often stop at places like Milton Keynes where they drop more people than they gain, so by the time they get into their final destination they're nowhere near full and probably no more than 2 coachloads at best.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Makes you wonder why government were so keen to introduce franchises......why try to fix a system that wasn't broken? Interestingly, the ex BR employees I work with all mention the fact that the best time for BR was when sectorisation was introduced.....the pre cursor to franchises.

In short, politics.

 

[muz379]

Not that simple - quite often the last Avanti's from Euston leave less than 3/4 full, often stop at places like Milton Keynes where they drop more people than they gain, so by the time they get into their final destination they're nowhere near full and probably no more than 2 coachloads at best.

Quite often the trains before them have all run though .

Even a 3/4 full pendolino is going to need a number of coaches to carry the same amount even if some of the coaches only run part of the way .

The issue is for engineering works passenger flows can he analysed and bus replacement well planned on that basis . Putting a bus plan together last minute for cancellations only known about on the day and to such levels of accuracy wouldn't be possible. I maintain several busses would be needed to shift the same number of pax as a pendolino for the last AWC service out of Euston.

 

[Howardh]

Talk about "Broken Britain" our transport system as a whle is a total shambles, and a mega-high-priced shambles at that. Airline queues for baggage, passport and security, train strikes and last train cancellations, at a time after two years of the pandemic and we all desperately want to travel to get those horrible years put to bed...who would want to travel now? I'm dreading my two breaks coming up, is the stress worth it? There's absolutely no way I'm booking any kind of advance rail ticket this summer - so it's money the TOC's could have going down the drain as I won't be travelling "walk-on" due to those high fares. Basically it's a kind of lockdown again!

 

[GordonT]

First equals worst! Utterly useless company that should have all contracts removed. Couldn't run a bath!

They were fine when all they did was operate Aberdeen's city buses. From the moment they expanded beyond their comfort zone it was downhill all the way.

 

[A0wen]

Talk about "Broken Britain" our transport system as a whle is a total shambles, and a mega-high-priced shambles at that. Airline queues for baggage, passport and security, train strikes and last train cancellations, at a time after two years of the pandemic and we all desperately want to travel to get those horrible years put to bed...who would want to travel now? I'm dreading my two breaks coming up, is the stress worth it? There's absolutely no way I'm booking any kind of advance rail ticket this summer - so it's money the TOC's could have going down the drain as I won't be travelling "walk-on" due to those high fares. Basically it's a kind of lockdown again!

Why don't you try living somewhere else to see if it's really better? Because other countries have similar problems, it's just that the RF's "rose tinted worldview" doesn't see this.

 

[Wolfie]

Why don't you try living somewhere else to see if it's really better? Because other countries have similar problems, it's just that the RF's "rose tinted worldview" doesn't see this.

Few if any "first world" countries have issues to the same extent. None of those which do charge through the nose like the UK does.

 

[185]

Talk about "Broken Britain" our transport system as a whle is a total shambles, and a mega-high-priced shambles

Kind of understand people's frustration.

Golden rules of the railway now being routinely broken - eg. you just don't cancel the last train of the night (unless nuclear strike / volcano / asteroid).

 

[Watershed]

Why don't you try living somewhere else to see if it's really better? Because other countries have similar problems, it's just that the RF's "rose tinted worldview" doesn't see this.

There aren't widespread cancellations and heavy timetable cutbacks on any other European railway.

 

[Howardh]

There aren't widespread cancellations and heavy timetable cutbacks on any other European railway.

To be fair Schiphol's had it's problems which have been forecast to continue well into the summer, but we're in Britain and shouldn't be saying "oh look at XXXland they're just as bad" whether it's rail or air. We should get our own house in order, and get it in order quickly so we can have our first decent summer of care-free travel since 2019.

If the answer is "move to another country" then that won't help an elderly person stranded at one in the morning on an unstaffed station.

 

[The exile]

Reading this sort of thing always reminds me of back in about '94, still BR - a Glasgow-Euston on a (scheduled) diversion over the S&C, while on that route got stuck behind a broken down freight train.

All the time the guard kept us informed, including regularly walking through the train. Then at some point started noting everyone's final destination that night.

On arrival at Euston at about 1am, four hours late, we were greeted by more black cabs than the eye could see, and plenty of staff, who had already recieved the list of destinations, and organised the geographical taxi loads, directing everyone into their correct chariots, for distribution all over the south east of England (my taxi was for something like Kingston, New Malden, then Godalming and Reading...poor driver didn't have a clue of directions without his passengers' help, pre sat nav etc...)

Absolutely sterling effort by all, really wish i'd written to congratulate them at the time, but anyway..

Dare i ask if we can look forward to this sort of thing again with GB Rail or whatever it's to be called?

Similar experience at Reading (other than the fact that the taxis weren’t already there) - with taxis heading for Portsmouth and Gatwick amongst other places. All organised by First as it was less than 10 years ago.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Why don't you try living somewhere else to see if it's really better? Because other countries have similar problems, it's just that the RF's "rose tinted worldview" doesn't see this.

Perhaps he would emigrate if he thought his train to the airport would run and the queues at the airport wouldn't be so long he would miss his flight.

 

[A0wen]

Perhaps he would emigrate if he thought his train to the airport would run and the queues at the airport wouldn't be so long he would miss his flight.

Like button needed !

There aren't widespread cancellations and heavy timetable cutbacks on any other European railway.

That's not quite true though, is it?

Trains cancelled due to staff shortages: 'Unprecedented situation'

"Passengers are getting desperate. This is no longer a quality service."

www.brusselstimes.com

Over 90% of SNCB trains arrive on time, but cancellations up

In Belgium, 90.5% of train journeys in April were on time. However, more journeys cancelled compared to last year.

www.brusselstimes.com

Italy faces public transport strikes on 20 May

Italy's transport sector faces a national general strike on Friday 20 May, causing disruption to local, regional and national services, public and private.

www.wantedinrome.com

Germany: Deutsche Bahn admits major drop in punctuality – DW – 01/05/2022

Nearly one-quarter of high-speed trains did not reach their destination on time in 2021. Long delays and canceled trains have become routine across Germany.

www.dw.com

The French lose 340 million minutes per year due to avoidable train delays, says consumer group

An old and underfunded railway network directly is responsible for delays which are turning French people off train travel, according to a study from consumer group UFC-Que Choisir published on Tuesday.

www.thelocal.fr

France's railway company cuts trains amid COVID-19 crisis

France's national railway company, the SNCF, will cut 10% of its high-speed trains and 20% of other main line trains from next week, a spokesperson said on Friday.

www.euronews.com

 

[172101]

Last EUS-MAN & WVH-EUS Cancelled today along the last GLC-EUS terminating at PRE. 54 Trains in all cancelled today and 52 already in for tomorrow, with no dout many more to come! Excellent for a Jubilee Bank Holiday weekend with loads of extra passengers travelling to/from London.
Tomorrow the last 2 up WM services and last down WM servics are cancelled.

 

[footprints]

End of the Jubilee bank holiday weekend and Avanti have cancelled the 1705, 1805 and 1905 departures from Euston to Liverpool Lime Street tomorrow.

 

[All Line Rover]

They've also cancelled the final two departures from London to Manchester tonight, a Saturday on an incredibly busy bank holiday weekend. Unbelievable.

 

[Watershed]

That's not quite true though, is it?

I'm sure it's easy enough to cherry pick a few articles claiming things are bad abroad. No doubt you would have found much the same in the press here before Covid.

But have you got anything to suggest that railways abroad are still running just half of the pre-Covid timetable, which is the situation many people here find themselves in (if not worse)?

Or, as in Avanti's case over the last few months, that they are cancelling around a third of services even on said heavily reduced timetable?

 

[All Line Rover]

They're running a "Good service", with a prominent green tick, according to the homepage of their website: https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/

 

[87015]

They've also cancelled the final two departures from London to Manchester tonight, a Saturday on an incredibly busy bank holiday weekend. Unbelievable.

Euston is currently deserted, as it was at 1000 this morning. Where’s the incredibly busy come from?

 

[Furrball]

They're running a "Good service", with a prominent green tick, according to the homepage of their website: https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/

Was about to post the same thing!

Just a snapshot of tomorrow

05/06/22 11:15 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston due 13:25 will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.

05/06/22 11:35 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston due 13:45 will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable

05/06/22 11:55 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston due 14:09 will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.

 

[GordonT]

Was about to post the same thing!

Just a snapshot of tomorrow

05/06/22 11:15 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston due 13:25 will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.

05/06/22 11:35 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston due 13:45 will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable

05/06/22 11:55 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston due 14:09 will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.

Rather takes the edge off a 3tph service.

 

[Furrball]

Passenger: When is the next train to London?

Staff: Quarter past

A little while later...

Passenger:. It's now half past, you said the next train was quarter past...

Staff:. I did not say what hour!

 

[All Line Rover]

Euston is currently deserted, as it was at 1000 this morning. Where’s the incredibly busy come from?

There's more to London than the Euston concourse, dear

 

[dk1]

They've also cancelled the final two departures from London to Manchester tonight, a Saturday on an incredibly busy bank holiday weekend. Unbelievable.

But if there’s no crew & a work to rule, what can they do?

 

[All Line Rover]

But if there’s no crew & a work to rule, what can they do?

Delay one of the earlier services by (no more than) one hour and pay the staff overtime as appropriate. It is not acceptable to run 25 of 30 scheduled services, where two of the cancelled services are the last of the day.

If I were in a team struggling due to staff shortages and I refused to deal with an urgent matter because it's "not my problem", the next day on arriving at work I would be handed my P45. I am obliged to act co-operatively and sometimes this means working overtime, for which (not being shift work) I don't get paid.

I expect you will reply that the railway is somehow different, even to safety critical sectors such as healthcare and construction. Perhaps it is different. Perhaps. As a passenger and taxpayer, I don't care.

 

[LowLevel]

Delay one of the earlier services by (no more than) one hour and pay the staff overtime as appropriate. It is not acceptable to run 25 of 30 scheduled services, where two of the cancelled services are the last of the day.

If I were in a team struggling due to staff shortages and I refused to deal with an urgent matter because it's "not my problem", the next day on arriving at work I would be handed my P45. I am obliged to act co-operatively and sometimes this means working overtime, for which (not being shift work) I don't get paid.

I expect you will reply that the railway is somehow different, even to safety critical sectors such as healthcare and construction. Perhaps it is different. Perhaps. As a passenger and taxpayer, I don't care.

It is different.

"Hello Bob. I know your diagram is 10 hours long and you're booked to finish at 2330, but the last train has no one for it so we are cancelling your booked working and want you to do the last one instead finishing at 0115, it's running around the houses and you'll need to take it on to the depot too. Dreadfully sorry old bean but you know how it is".

"Nope".

Don't try and stick it on the staff, it's entirely the responsibility of those holding the purse strings and organising things at a higher level.

Doing your bit is important. Doing a bit more every now and then is fine and as someone with pride in their job I will always help if I can. Feeling personal responsibility to fish someone else's rubbish out of the fire every week is something else entirely and can be dangerous.

 

[D1537]

Last Glasgow-Euston (1M18) cancelled at Preston, along with 9M19 to Birmingham just behind it. 9M62 to Birmingham the only remaining southbound, which is useless if you want Euston and hasn't left Preston yet anyway (due off 2117).

 

[wobman]

Delay one of the earlier services by (no more than) one hour and pay the staff overtime as appropriate. It is not acceptable to run 25 of 30 scheduled services, where two of the cancelled services are the last of the day.

If I were in a team struggling due to staff shortages and I refused to deal with an urgent matter because it's "not my problem", the next day on arriving at work I would be handed my P45. I am obliged to act co-operatively and sometimes this means working overtime, for which (not being shift work) I don't get paid.

I expect you will reply that the railway is somehow different, even to safety critical sectors such as healthcare and construction. Perhaps it is different. Perhaps. As a passenger and taxpayer, I don't care.

I personally think that's a very simplistic view of the current situation, the railways are far more complicated than people outside the industry realise.

The railways have always ran on good will and overtime, it's the status quo that higher management take advantage of by running depots under compliment expecting staff to work rest days all the time.