Aviation Discussion

[Tim R-T-C]

Just finished editing a couple of pics from Erbil Airport from my trip in April. Very heavy security so didn't get a chance to photograph too much, but a couple of pics from the plane windows and terminal:


Iraqi Airways 737-800 YI-ASU at Erbil International by Timothy Young, on Flickr


Mahan Air A310-300 EP-MNO at Erbil, Iraq by Timothy Young, on Flickr


Chinook departing Erbil Airport, Iraq by Timothy Young, on Flickr

 

[atillathehunn]

Just finished editing a couple of pics from Erbil Airport from my trip in April. Very heavy security so didn't get a chance to photograph too much, but a couple of pics from the plane windows and terminal:


Iraqi Airways 737-800 YI-ASU at Erbil International by Timothy Young, on Flickr


Mahan Air A310-300 EP-MNO at Erbil, Iraq by Timothy Young, on Flickr


Chinook departing Erbil Airport, Iraq by Timothy Young, on Flickr

Amazing pictures! How long were you there? Any other pics from the trip?

 

[atillathehunn]

United have announced the withdrawal of their Birmingham flights. This means that there are no more flights from BHM to the USA except a weekly holiday orientated flight to Orlando

Weak pound means holidays in the States get more expensive. I guess no one inbound from the States wants to go to Birmingham in sufficient quantity.

Manchester has seen a significant reduction in trans-Atlantic quantity as well.

 

[atillathehunn]

Thomas Cook have launched a new service from Manchester to Seattle from S18, twice a week on Thursdays and Sundays.

A330 as per usual.

 

[OwlMan]

New Flights to USA from Birmingham by Primera Air starting next year.

Coventry Telegraph http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/budget-flights-new-york-new-13358511

A new low cost airline will start transatlantic flights to New York and Boston from Birmingham Airport next year. From May 2018, a Primera Air flight to New York will depart from Birmingham daily.
And the low cost carrier has confirmed a separate flight, to Boston, will depart on Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday respectively.
The airline will base its brand new Airbus A321 Neos, configured with 16 premium economy seats and 182 economy seats, at Birmingham Airport.
Passengers can also use the Wi-Fi on board and the aircraft has full charging facilities for their devices.
William Pearson, Aviation Director commented: “We are delighted to be entering in to a partnership with an additional transatlantic airline.
"Primera Air will offer daily flights to New York and give passengers the chance to visit Massachusetts’ capital and largest city - Boston.
"This is a brand new route from Birmingham so we are delighted that Primera Air will give people from the region the opportunity to visit this city direct from their local airport.
“Primera is a low cost, low fares airline that will appeal to all.
"With its offering of premium economy and economy seats it really does mean that America is just across the pond.
"We look forward to working with Primera Air and are delighted that they will base these brand new Airbus321NEO’s here at the airport.”


Andri M. Ingolfsson, the President and Chairman of Primera Air said: “We are very proud to announce our new bases and routes to US.
"With our brand new Airbus321NEOs airplane, we are opening routes previously traditionally served only by wide-body aircrafts.
"With unmatched efficiency of these new-generation aircraft, we will be able to offer unprecedented prices to our passengers from Birmingham to the US.
At the same time, we are very proud to be offering a low-fare/high quality product and service concept, that will be perfect both for leisure and business travelers.”
Services from Birmingham to US will commence in May 2018 and will be year-round operations.
Primera Air tickets will go on sale from July 20 with starting fares of £149.00 (one way, all taxes included) and can be booked on www.primeraair.co.uk .

 

[Bletchleyite]

I give them a year - these startups never last.

 

[ModernRailways]

I give them a year - these startups never last.

They're not a startup, they are one of the Icelandic airlines and have operated since the early 2000s. A quick look at their pricing and it's very similar to other low cost airlines (see below). One of the key things for me is they aren't pulling a Norwegian and flying into some obscure Airport an hour away from NYC, they are using EWR (Newark Airport, New Jersey) so they may see more traffic purely from that. I've just looked and a return from Paris (CDG) to New York (EWR, NJ) will be €287 (~£280) on the lowest fare, you're then looking at €427 (~£410) for the, what most would consider, normal fare. If you're willing to travel light and can pack a week's worth of clothes into a backpack then you're sorted, but for most people that simply won't happen.

Economy tickets:
You have the cheapest ticket which gives you 1 hand luggage up to 10kg (enough for me, but not enough for the majority who don't travel light), and a seat.
You then have a standard sort of ticket called 'Comfort', which gives you 1 hand luggage, 1 checked luggage, priority seating, and a meal. It looks like that's averaging about $90 extra.
The next economy ticket is 'Flex' which is just 'Comfort', but allows a name change, a date change (you pay the price difference), and is refundable.

Premium tickets:
The cheapest premium ticket is basically the same as the 'Comfort' ticket for economy you just get a better seat as well as priority boarding.
The only other premium ticket is the 'premium flex'. As with the Economy 'Flex' ticket, you get a name change, a date change, and is refundable. You also get the benefits of the cheaper premium ticket, so a better seat, priority boarding, as well as the meal, 1 hand luggage, and 1 checked luggage.

 

[Techniquest]

I like the sound of that new route, I'd certainly give them a try

 

[Tim R-T-C]

With credit card fees being banned by the Government, is the next step to ban flights of over 3 hours (as a random example) being advertised without hold baggage fees?

Afterall what percentage of passengers flying to the US will do so without a hold bag?

 

[Joe Paxton]

With credit card fees being banned by the Government, is the next step to ban flights of over 3 hours (as a random example) being advertised without hold baggage fees?

No.

Afterall what percentage of passengers flying to the US will do so without a hold bag?

(a) More than you suspect!

(b) Rumour has it that there are flights longer than 3 hours to places other than the USofA...

 

[Tim R-T-C]

No.

Maybe not a government law, but the ASA might say something about it, they have cracked down before on adverts for prices that are not what the majority of people will pay.

(a) More than you suspect!

Hence my question!

(b) Rumour has it that there are flights longer than 3 hours to places other than the USofA...

Indeed. I used it as an example as it was the route in discussion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With credit card fees being banned by the Government, is the next step to ban flights of over 3 hours (as a random example) being advertised without hold baggage fees?

Charging for hold baggage does actively cause the excess hand baggage issues you get on planes. Personally I think there should indeed be some legal standardisation for ALL flights of:

1. Hand baggage size being IATA i.e. 56x45x25cm on all flights with a weight limit no less than 10kg, though admittedly it will need to be gate checked on smaller planes.

2. One item of 23kg hold luggage being inclusive.

That way there is no pressure to "race to the bottom".

For what it's worth Wizz Air's (basically pink and purple Ryanair but worse) excessive nickel and diming of charging for IATA size hand luggage (with a tiny free bag being allowed) has now been abandoned, so at least we aren't going further that way such that an extra charge is not avoidable except for a lightweight day trip.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Charging for hold baggage does actively cause the excess hand baggage issues you get on planes. Personally I think there should indeed be some legal standardisation for ALL flights of:

1. Hand baggage size being IATA i.e. 56x45x25cm on all flights with a weight limit no less than 10kg, though admittedly it will need to be gate checked on smaller planes.

2. One item of 23kg hold luggage being inclusive.

That way there is no pressure to "race to the bottom".
...

I fail to see why there should be such prescriptive legislation forcing private enterprises to fundamentally alter their underlying business models, which is exactly why nothing of the sort is going to happen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I fail to see why there should be such prescriptive legislation forcing private enterprises to fundamentally alter their underlying business models

For the same reason as any other legislation that prevents businesses effectively hiding the real price.

 

[Joe Paxton]

For the same reason as any other legislation that prevents businesses effectively hiding the real price.

It is the real price for people without hold luggage. If you go on for instance a Ryanair flight you'll see that a great many passengers do have cabin bags that comply with the Ryanair dimensions (55x40x20), i.e. smaller than the 'IATA standard', and a lot of them aren't hanging around the luggage belts on arrival for hold bags.

(And post October 29, the free cabin bag on Wizzair is 55x40x23 so still smaller than IATA size.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

(And post October 29, the free cabin bag on Wizzair is 55x40x23 so still smaller than IATA size.)

So I see. It's as if they actively *like* catching people out. Ryanair certainly admit themselves that they do (or did). The 15kg hold baggage size is about the best example of that imaginable - it is hard to pack a typical holidaymaker's medium trolley case[1] over 23kg unless you put bricks in it[2], but it's very easy to go over 15kg.

At least Wizz are very generous with hold weights, I think it's 32kg per bag.

[1] It's tourists that primarily get caught out, regulars get used to it.

[2] Last trip I did with the Irish lot mine was something like 14.9kg but I'd booked a 20kg bag. It was very tempting to *actually* put bricks in it to make a point. I did in the end put a couple of full water bottles in (for consumption on arrival) which probably did the trick.

 

[Joe Paxton]

So I see. It's as if they actively *like* catching people out. Ryanair certainly admit themselves that they do (or did). The 15kg hold baggage size is about the best example of that imaginable - it is hard to pack a typical holidaymaker's medium trolley case[1] over 23kg unless you put bricks in it, but it's very easy to go over 15kg.

At least Wizz are very generous with hold weights, I think it's 32kg per bag.

[1] It's tourists that primarily get caught out, regulars get used to it.

The Ryanair cabin bag size isn't arbitrary and thus specifically designed to catch people out, it's based on the size of the overhead bins on their aeroplanes.

Anyway the days of the uber-rigid enforcement of cabin bag size and weight on Ryanair are over, and (unlike easyJet) they now allow all passengers a second small cabin bag (e.g. a handbag, shoulder bag or laptop case).

 

[atillathehunn]

The Ryanair cabin bag size isn't arbitrary and thus specifically designed to catch people out, it's based on the size of the overhead bins on their aeroplanes.

Anyway the days of the uber-rigid enforcement of cabin bag size and weight on Ryanair are over, and (unlike easyJet) they now allow all passengers a second small cabin bag (e.g. a handbag, shoulder bag or laptop case).

You're right, Ryanair have got a lot more relaxed. The scale at Charleroi wasn't working last week, not a single f*ck was given, they never measured my overweight cabin bag, and didn't bat an eyelid at my rammed full laptop bag. I asked them to check my rollaboard into the hold as it has no value and I was sitting at the very back and knew there would be no overhead space.

Charging for some kind of bag is always going to continue - once a price is set as higher, it's not going to go lower without the revenue being made up somewhere else. I enjoy HBO fares on short haul, though maybe the model should be changed to encourage more use of the hold, where the process is fast and automated.

The new service from Birmingham is interesting. Unlike the Norwegian model of using backwater airports, it's good to see that the new hyper efficient aircraft like the A321NEO are being used to open up 'normal' airports (in the sense that anything in New Jersey can be called normal).

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Ryanair cabin bag size isn't arbitrary and thus specifically designed to catch people out, it's based on the size of the overhead bins on their aeroplanes.

Hopefully the new Boeing interior will solve that as it has the larger bins that Airbus have used for years (easyJet went to IATA size when they swapped from Boeing to Airbus, shame Ryanair won't follow as Boeings really are incredibly crude, rough and noisy compared with Airbuses). But TBH they could go for IATA size on the grounds that not everyone brings a full size bag anyway.

Anyway, my point was more about the 15kg hold luggage size, particularly in the days when larger sizes were not available.

Anyway the days of the uber-rigid enforcement of cabin bag size and weight on Ryanair are over, and (unlike easyJet) they now allow all passengers a second small cabin bag (e.g. a handbag, shoulder bag or laptop case).

True, Sleasy only offer a second bag if you book a premium seat. Notably, though, the small bag on both is quite small and not big enough for many laptops, particularly the very common cheaper-end 15" size.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Got a surprise yesterday morning when driving past RNAS Culdrose, down near Helston. I saw a black RAF Hawk jet coming in to land at the base, and then saw it again on the ground when I was driving back to Hayle from Lizard point (lovely place to visit if you've not been before). Are Hawk jets a common sight at the base does anyone know?

Cheers

Ben

 

[Butts]

I fail to see why there should be such prescriptive legislation forcing private enterprises to fundamentally alter their underlying business models, which is exactly why nothing of the sort is going to happen.

I for one would rather go back to the concept of booking a ticket on a plane that included hold and cabin baggage, choosing a normal seat, refreshments and the ability to check in at the Airport if you wished.

Such a great idea I'm suprised no one has ever thought of it.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I for one would rather go back to the concept of booking a ticket on a plane that included hold and cabin baggage, choosing a normal seat, refreshments and the ability to check in at the Airport if you wished.

Such a great idea I'm suprised no one has ever thought of it.

With the fares set at suitably high levels by the IATA oligopoly, and state owned airlines in control with at best limited competition being permitted?

Say what you will about LCCs, they have undoubtedly driven airfares down.

 

[Butts]

With the fares set at suitably high levels by the IATA oligopoly, and state owned airlines in control with at best limited competition being permitted?

Say what you will about LCCs, they have undoubtedly driven airfares down.

The early days were not to bad when you had the best of both worlds - lower fares and almost full service. That was before Airlines went into the "Car Hire Business" and started with a basic price and loads of "optional" extras.

Looking at UK Domestic you are now paying the same for no frills as you were for full service a few years ago.

Where is the benefit in that ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not so bothered about a manky free sandwich and half a cup of instant, I'd far rather cough up and get a nice full size coffee like on Ryanair (their filter cups are excellent, TPE do them as well). But I would like to see an end to the luggage nickel and diming, not because I mind the total price but because it causes it to be necessary to put things under the seat, reducing legroom even more, when if hold baggage was free a load of it would be in the hold.

 

[Hornet]

I for one would rather go back to the concept of booking a ticket on a plane that included hold and cabin baggage, choosing a normal seat, refreshments and the ability to check in at the Airport if you wished.

Such a great idea I'm suprised no one has ever thought of it.

So you would like to go back to the 80's when there were fewer flights, and where I was paying a weeks wages to do a London Dublin return, with all the ticketing restrictions that prevailed with that fare. You are seriously nuts!

 

[Tim R-T-C]

For what it's worth Wizz Air's (basically pink and purple Ryanair but worse) excessive nickel and diming of charging for IATA size hand luggage (with a tiny free bag being allowed) has now been abandoned, so at least we aren't going further that way such that an extra charge is not avoidable except for a lightweight day trip.

Charging for hold baggage does actively cause the excess hand baggage issues you get on planes.

In fact, I found from experience that Wizz Air's approach helped to alleviate the cabin baggage issue. Most people just packed everything into their hold bag and had a small under-seat carry-on. People like myself, on a short trip, paid for a cabin bag and got plenty of space to fit it in the lockers. No fuss, nice and easy.

I would be interested to see the statistics, but from observation I feel that many people who pack the "just inside legal limits" metal suitcases that take up huge amounts of locker space, also have a hold bag and are just wanting extra storage space.

Perhaps the solution is to allow a free under-seat carry-on and either a hold bag or a cabin-sized bag free of charge. Most people on a holiday would go for the larger bag, people on a short trip can have a smaller bag and get moving quicker, optimises cabin and hold usage. Simple.

 

[Butts]

So you would like to go back to the 80's when there were fewer flights, and where I was paying a weeks wages to do a London Dublin return, with all the ticketing restrictions that prevailed with that fare. You are seriously nuts!

No, I'd like to go back to the late nineties/early to mid 2000's when you got reasonable fares and Full Service.

 

[atillathehunn]

I'm not so bothered about a manky free sandwich and half a cup of instant, I'd far rather cough up and get a nice full size coffee like on Ryanair (their filter cups are excellent, TPE do them as well). But I would like to see an end to the luggage nickel and diming, not because I mind the total price but because it causes it to be necessary to put things under the seat, reducing legroom even more, when if hold baggage was free a load of it would be in the hold.

It has to work one way or the other. People expect to be able to bring a bag with them on the plane, included in the price. That will not change (relatively few people will be going for <1 day and will need a bag). Whether it's in the cabin or in the hold is the question.

We seem to have got better at arrival times for bags on most airlines (it's been a while that I waited more than 15 mins for a bag off the belt, including at airports across Africa. Amman Queen Alia airport is a notable exception, who take the p*ss with me frequently waiting for 2 hours for the first bag, let alone the last.

Business people - with inelastic demand - who don't want to wait for their bag out of the hold can pay for the overhead space. Time and price elastic people can swap their free cabin bag for a free hold bag. The time saved using a systematic approach to baggage loading may potentially reduce their delay fees at the airport, saving airlines cash. Probably cost neutral to the passenger, but fewer delays=better in non-pecuniary terms.

 

[atillathehunn]

You may also enjoy these article I saw on LinkedIn. Interesting reading.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/british-airways-brilliant-example-how-cost-cutting-costs-jackson

 

[westcoaster]

Was reading about this hefty delay http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40684551

But what thomson or tui did not disclose is, they delayed it on operational reasons.
The aircraft should have flown ABZ-FARO-ABZ then ABZ- Dalaman -ABZ. Then the next morning ABZ-CORFU ABZ.
Because the aircraft went tech they knocked the faro rotation on the head, but the Dalaman afternoon flight left on time, th3y then rescheduled the faro flight after the corfu rotation the next day. Same aircraft an ASL 737-700. Reading other forums the concensus is it was done due to the eu flight compensation rules. Pay the compensation to 300 people instead of to 900.
So basically delay 300 people for 38 hours instead of 900 for a few.

How the eu ruins people's holidays.