Axe looms for Highland station with just 76 passengers year

[najaB]

Isn't the point that, at the moment, you don't need a car to get to it, since trains stop there?

It's an awful long walk from anywhere other than the lodge.

 

[Macwomble]

Kildonan ain't gonna close.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...station-to-be-saved-after-hitrans-backs-down/

People power has forced a U-turn from transport bosses considering the closure of one of the UK’s least-used train stations.

The Kildonan halt had been earmarked for closure by the Highland and Islands Transport Partnership (Hitrans), arguing that it could save minutes on the Far North Line journey.

But all three local councillors – backed by Highland Council itself – fought the plans, and yesterday Hitrans gave up.

Earlier in the month HITRANS bid for cash from Transport Scotland’s Local Rail Development Fund to investigate the case for closure of the Sutherland station, but it has now withdrawn its application.

A spokesman said: “We had hoped to explore the benefits and disadvantages of the scheme without prejudice. However, we would not wish to go against the feeling of local members and so plan to withdraw our application for funding.”

Figures show that in 2016 to 2017 only 76 people used the station compared to around 60,000 for the six stations north of it – and experts thought up to four minutes could be shaved off journey times.

But local councillor Struan Mackie raised a motion that was unanimously backed by the council.

Speaking yesterday evening Mr Mackie expressed delight that HITRANS had backed down commenting that it lacked the public or political backing for the move.

He said: “To be perfectly honest I feel delighted and I also feel relieved. It is a big win for north east Sutherland.

“There were lots of positive things happening with the Far North Line and this proposed closure put a dampener on them. As I said in the chamber, there was no political appetite for this and none of the major stakeholders wanted this to go ahead.

He said: “It was also discouraging that the body responsible for rural connectivity was the one bringing this forward – which would have harmed rural connectivity. It would have left a big hole in the community.”

Earlier Mr Mackie also disputed claims that four minutes saved on journey times would make a great impact on passengers.

He said: “I do not believe that four minutes of saving on a journey of 3hrs and 56minutes will result in widespread jubilation in Caithness or any other area.”

 

[najaB]

He said: “It was also discouraging that the body responsible for rural connectivity was the one bringing this forward – which would have harmed rural connectivity. It would have left a big hole in the community.”

What community?!

 

[yorksrob]

Kildonan ain't gonna close.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...station-to-be-saved-after-hitrans-backs-down/

I'm very glad !

 

[XDM]

I'm very sad!
One and a half persons a week will benefit from not closing this station in nowhere land.
Hundreds of thousands of passengers in a full year will each lose the chance to save 4 mins a single trip. And the shortened journey time might encourage some marginal travellers to use the line.
I was surprised to learn one driver does the entire trip from Inverness. Shortening journey time would have lessened ASLEF pressure on the TOC to schedule a crew change halfway through, doubling labour costs & reliability.

 

[najaB]

I was surprised to learn one driver does the entire trip from Inverness.

Not really much choice unless they drove up and waited somewhere like Helmsdale. It's pretty remote country otherwise.

 

[Highlandspring]

They used to do crew changes at Lairg.

 

[Esker-pades]

I'm very sad!
One and a half persons a week will benefit from not closing this station in nowhere land.
Hundreds of thousands of passengers in a full year will each lose the chance to save 4 mins a single trip. And the shortened journey time might encourage some marginal travellers to use the line.
I was surprised to learn one driver does the entire trip from Inverness. Shortening journey time would have lessened ASLEF pressure on the TOC to schedule a crew change halfway through, doubling labour costs & reliability.

Firstly, 4 minutes is a very unlikely saving. The normal time saving for not stopping at a station is between 1 and 5 minutes. However, savings above 2 minutes come on lines with a 100mph+ speed limit and usually a 2 minute dwell time (see IC services). Therefore, realistically, the best time saving would be 2 minutes. If one looks at the first train of the day from Wick, you will see it skips out 5 stops on the way. This saves it 7 minutes, or an average of 1.4 minutes per stop.

Secondly, even if 4 minutes were to be achieved, that would make no difference whatsoever to the attractiveness of the route, given that the journey time by road is 2-2.5 hours compared to 4.5 hours (Wick to Inverness). 4 minutes will do nothing.

Thirdly, journey times have been significantly increased since the early 2000s when 15mph loop speed limits (amongst other things) were introduced.

Fourthly, the difference in journey times varies by way more than 4 minutes already. Southbound journey times vary between 4h10m and 4h28m. Northbound journey times vary between 4h15m and 4h31m (Inverness to Wick). Even when accounting for the variability of stopping patterns in some services, that gives more than a 10 minute variation in journey times. Plus, the first train of the day from Wick skips out 5 request stops and saves 7 minutes, while another service skips out 4 stops and saves 14 minutes.

My point? The timetable up there is pants. Closing Kildonan will do barely anything. There are real things which can be done (increase speed limits, build new passing loops, possibly building the Dornoch rail link) that will make a much bigger impact that will be good for everyone. Such a marginal improvement at the cost of people's journeys (however few those journeys may be) is undesirable.

 

[najaB]

Firstly, 4 minutes is a very unlikely saving. The normal time saving for not stopping at a station is between 1 and 5 minutes.

And the time saving for not stopping at the station and not having to slow from 60mph for the open crossing? 4 minutes doesn't sound unrealistic.

Thirdly, journey times have been significantly increased since the early 2000s when 15mph loop speed limits (amongst other things) were introduced.

One (two?) derailments says that maybe that was a good thing.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm very sad!
One and a half persons a week will benefit from not closing this station in nowhere land.
Hundreds of thousands of passengers in a full year will each lose the chance to save 4 mins a single trip. And the shortened journey time might encourage some marginal travellers to use the line.
I was surprised to learn one driver does the entire trip from Inverness. Shortening journey time would have lessened ASLEF pressure on the TOC to schedule a crew change halfway through, doubling labour costs & reliability.

Realistically, I doubt very much that that four minutes will make a ha'porth of difference either to crewing rosters or people's propensity to travel on it.

 

[Killingworth]

76 passengers in a year. Now 99 posts on here!

This isn't really about timings, although that may have been given as the reason as it has repeatedly been said. Think about it.

Maintaining a platform, timetabling, shelter and lights for 76 uses of the station, maybe only 38 people going in both directions, is a cost factor way above the time issue. Those 38 people (in 365 days) won't all have been travelling on their own. At most 2% of the trains will have stopped - and quite a few of the 38 were probably bagging obscure stations as a hobby anyway! Confound it, with these low numbers they may all have been!

BTW, I've been to John O'Groats twice. Yes, the car was better with my wife, but my father wanted to do the train trip just for the ride. Price was a factor for that.

 

[mmh]

I'm surprised by how often this sort of discussion happens on a forum I assumed was for railway enthusiasts. Why be so adamant that stations need to be closed just because you'll never want to use them? What actual benefit would closing this one give anyone?

Badly quoting Oscar Wilde, some people really do know the price of everything and the value of nothing it seems.

 

[najaB]

What actual benefit would closing this one give anyone?

As already said, approximately 4 minutes journey time and likely a couple tens of thousands a year in maintenance costs.

 

[mmh]

As already said, approximately 4 minutes journey time and likely a couple tens of thousands a year in maintenance costs.

I think anyone who cares about saving 4 minutes in the north highlands is probably in the wrong area. Who knows how much it costs to maintain a rarely used platform? I don't, but it won't be tens of thousands. But who cares? Why do you?

 

[HSTEd]

I'm surprised by how often this sort of discussion happens on a forum I assumed was for railway enthusiasts. Why be so adamant that stations need to be closed just because you'll never want to use them? What actual benefit would closing this one give anyone?

Badly quoting Oscar Wilde, some people really do know the price of everything and the value of nothing it seems.

And what is the value of a railway station in the middle of nowhere, in an area that is highly unlikely to be ever developed in any of our lifetimes?

Being a railway enthusiast does not mean we are required to always support railways in all situations.

 

[najaB]

Who knows how much it costs to maintain a rarely used platform?

If it was just a platform, then maybe. But all stations have help points, PIS and smartcard validators. Plus they have to have bins which will need emptying, fences that need painting and probably lighting to be kept in good working order. £10-20K a year all in doesn't seem unreasonably high.

 

[Killingworth]

As already said, approximately 4 minutes journey time and likely a couple tens of thousands a year in maintenance costs.

The 4 minutes myth has been totally demolished by reference to the timetable showing several such halts would need to be closed to save that time. It is further debunked when you realise all trains have to stop for an ungated crossing on a blind curve through the station.

Are there really smartcard validators in the Highlands?

Citing the X99 bus as an alternative fails to understand the geography. Let's at least work from facts.

It's the precedent for those other halts that will concern local residents most.

 

[Esker-pades]

If it was just a platform, then maybe. But all stations have help points, PIS and smartcard validators. Plus they have to have bins which will need emptying, fences that need painting and probably lighting to be kept in good working order. £10-20K a year all in doesn't seem unreasonably high.

Since when have Highland halts had PISs? Some don't even have fences. I can't speak for Kildonan as I've not yet been there (that's happening in September), but from what I've seen passing it 4 times and comparing to other halts I've spent time at (Duirinish, Scotscalder), the only things there are help points, a shelter and an information board. I was at Duirinish when the person from Transport Scotland came round in a van to make sure everything was in order. I doubt they employ more than one person to go around all the stations north of Inverness.

 

[najaB]

It is further debunked when you realise all trains have to stop for an ungated crossing on a blind curve through the station, see picture linked in post 108.

The crossing is being upgraded - see post #1.

 

[Crossover]

Are there really smartcard validators in the Highlands?

I believe every station has them, yes. I recall reading a story of a deer (or similar) having a go at one of them!