"Bad Train Day" at Sheffield

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Harpers Tate

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It appears a freight train is on the ground somewhere near Nunnery and nothing is able to arrive at or leave Sheffield to the north.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/162853.aspx

And so we have buses doing things that trains are supposed to do - unavoidable obviously for much of it. But I thought that this was particularly disappointing:

CrossCountry customers

Services from the South will terminate at Sheffield. Services from the North will terminate at Leeds or Doncaster.

There is no obvious good reason why these services cannot operate throughout between Leeds or Doncaster and Chesterfield, taking the "short cut" to/from Rotherham Masborough and the south.
 
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306024

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Looking at the Open Train Times signalling map for Chesterfield, there appears to be an engineering possession at the Chesterfield end of the diversionary route (if I've understood what you are saying correctly). That would rate as a good reason in my book.
 

Harpers Tate

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If so, then that might explain it. I wonder if the derailed "freight" train is actually an engineering train. Guess we'll find out eventually what the culprit is.
 

306024

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If so, that would explain it - no might about it ;)

There is usually (but not always!) a good reason why the railway behaves the way it does that won't be obvious to Joe Public. Coincidence is that I travelled past the site of the derailment yesterday.
 

Adam0984

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The obvious good reason not to run from Masborough straight to Chesterfield via Barrow Hill is that XC drivers don't sign it. I think a very limited number of EMT do for the rare occasion of ECS movements
 

Harpers Tate

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At the risk of sparking controversy - that is a reason, but I would not call it a good one. It's moot anyway if the route is shut.
 

Jonfun

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It does seem a missed opportunity not to sign that diversion, whether or not it was available today. It wouldn't get used often but then neither does going via Nuneaton on the Manchester route, and bearing in mind it's effectively split the main XC route in two you'd think you'd want as much contingency as possible. Even if only, say, Leeds crews signed it it would still be *something*.
 

class 9

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TOCs aren't interested in diversion routes these days, they make more money from the compensation payments from Network Rail, no matter what they say publicly, its profit first & customer service second.
 

Adam0984

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At the risk of sparking controversy - that is a reason, but I would not call it a good one. It's moot anyway if the route is shut.

It's a damn good reason at this moment in time. Long term probably not a good reason and one that could be rectified but would need some regular work that way and a passenger service would require missing out a Sheffield call and an ECS movement would need to be worth while not just for the sake of it. The only other option is route review days where they take an empty train specifically for route retention over the route
 

306024

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How many crews would have to learn and maintain competence over this diversionary route? I've no idea but Cross Country isn't a small TOC. It would be interesting to see how some of the commentators here would manage a TOC operations budget.

Cost and benefit is a standard measure in all walks of life. You can have as much contingency as you are prepared to pay for, but there comes a point where the returns diminish.
 
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The Planner

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TOCs aren't interested in diversion routes these days, they make more money from the compensation payments from Network Rail, no matter what they say publicly, its profit first & customer service second.

Indeed, they will probably make a good few quid from the schedule 8 payments from this.
 

bus man

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66426 as come off at the points just north of the station. Therefore all lines are blocked north both the main line to Meadowhall and the line to woodburn junction - the worst possible scenario
 

syorksdeano

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66426 as come off at the points just north of the station. Therefore all lines are blocked north both the main line to Meadowhall and the line to woodburn junction - the worst possible scenario
All that track and it has to pick the worst possible place.

Anyone know if it will be clear by tomorrow? I seem to remember last time something like this happened at Sheffield it took a few days to repair
 

Adam0984

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It's damaged a set of points. Depending on if it's a common repair and replacement piece or if it's a specialist piece depends on how long it's takes. If it may take a few days then they may just temporarily repair to allow mainline running and bustitute the Lincoln line to some degree
 

800001

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Line at Sheffield to reopen hopefully by 12. Now services are being diverted via Lichfield as a train has hit cows near Wychnor.
 
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bus man

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National Rail now reporting till at least noon was to end of service
 

221129

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There is no obvious good reason why these services cannot operate throughout between Leeds or Doncaster and Chesterfield, taking the "short cut" to/from Rotherham Masborough and the south.

There is no available diversionary route for XC.
 

John @ home

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Line open 1156. I'm on 2nd train into Sheffield, 1V54 0927 Newcastle - Plymouth, which arrived Sheffield 1202, 9 late.
 

AndrewE

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Idiots on forums aren't interested in real, valid reasons why something is at is, they only care about whatever axe it is they have to grind.

However it is appropriate to discuss whether a private company entrusted with running a utility (i.e. part of this country's infrastructure serving business and leisure) is likely to - or can be forced to - maintain redundancy to ensure acceptable reliability.
In the railway case this might include alternative route knowledge, spare traincrew or standby locos and maybe even rolling stock.
 

AndrewE

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they make more money from the compensation payments from Network Rail, no matter what they say publicly, its profit first & customer service second.
That's actually the law. Company directors are required to act only in the interests of shareholders. Some directors accept that staying within the spirit of the law is important too!
 
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sheff1

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XC have run direct between Chesterfield and Rotherham via the Old Road in the not too distant past. Whether this needed route conductors I do not know.

The southern section from Beighton to Tapton has scheduled XC workings every weekday, at least, so some XC drivers certainly sign that part.
 

Mugby

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I notice that the 09.50 EMT service from Leeds to St.Pancras was cancelled from Leeds but started from Sheffield. If the stock comes out of Neville Hill, how would it have got to Sheffield to start the service from there?
 

voyagerdude220

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ECS from Derby maybe?

Correct- there was an additional 5Z41 from Etches Park to Sheffield, formed of HST NL04 (43049 and 43047) , which arrived at Sheffield at 10:15, in time for its departure to London St Pancras at 10:36.
 

Mugby

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Correct- there was an additional 5Z41 from Etches Park to Sheffield, formed of HST NL04 (43049 and 43047) , which arrived at Sheffield at 10:15, in time for its departure to London St Pancras at 10:36.

Do the crew usually travel to Leeds by road transport? Were they stopped before they set off?
 

tony_mac

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That's actually the law. Company directors are required to act only in the interests of shareholders.

I think that's rather overstating the obligations. They can consider that their relationships with their customers, or the community, or the impact on the environment are more important than short-term profit. (In fact, they are actually supposed to consider all these things!)
 
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