LU_timetabler
Member
- Joined
- 5 Feb 2017
- Messages
- 165
Elephant sidings is 2 trains, then you put a 3rd train in one of the platforms.
New Met extension on part of the Croxley line, is expected to include a new Met depot between Moor Park and Croxley, as well as using the old Watford Met station for stabling trains overnight. Obviously more Met trains needed nowadays because a) Met extension; b) higher service level possible with the 4LM, modernising the signalling on all the sub-surface LU lines.
If it were done, they'd have to ensure cross-running capability for the new Bakerloo trains with the S-stock new signalling system. That may not be so tricky, as the new Pic trains will need to have that for the Uxbridge branch, and I'm fairly certain Pic and B'loo are supposed to be getting the same trains.
You may not agree with my posting, but I won't be churlish because I think you're spot-on with this.
TfL have opened another consultation for the Lewisham extension. Personally not happy there are only three stations proposed between Elephant and Lewisham. Have suggested there should be one at Walworth as there is a proposal for a ventilation shaft there. No interchange with Queen's Road Peckham, New Cross or Deptford Bridge either as proposed by some
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/bakerloo-extension/consultation/subpage.2015-09-03.3976631085/
TfL have opened another consultation for the Lewisham extension. Personally not happy there are only three stations proposed between Elephant and Lewisham. Have suggested there should be one at Walworth as there is a proposal for a ventilation shaft there. No interchange with Queen's Road Peckham, New Cross or Deptford Bridge either as proposed by some
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/bakerloo-extension/consultation/subpage.2015-09-03.3976631085/
It's particularly ironic when you consider the close spacing of stations from Elephant northwestwards. I know that modern thinking doesn't allow for too many stations, with rare exceptions, but, even so, it will be like a tube line from two different ages. Lambeth North and Regent's Park, for two, would never be looked at for one second these days. The people of SE London (of which I am still one, spiritually) deserve better than this though.
TfL have opened another consultation for the Lewisham extension. Personally not happy there are only three stations proposed between Elephant and Lewisham. Have suggested there should be one at Walworth as there is a proposal for a ventilation shaft there. No interchange with Queen's Road Peckham, New Cross or Deptford Bridge either as proposed by some
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/bakerloo-extension/consultation/subpage.2015-09-03.3976631085/
Wouldn't a southern extension be better off ending at Croydon?
There was a rather excellent article on London Reconnnections about it last year - worth a read.
If you look at the spacing of the stations beyond Queens Park it is not all that different. It's certainly better than the Vic line between Kings Cross and Seven Sisters.
Not sure about Walworth, but the line doesn't actually run close enough to any of Queens Road Peckham, New Cross or Deptford Bridge. Moving it would make it longer. Half the ELL core trains call at New Cross Gate so that is clearly the better interchange of the three ELL stations. More SE trains call at Lewisham than New Cross which again knocks that stations credentials, and Lewisham is a much better interchange for the DLR with trains stationary for a few minutes and the station being under cover.
No-one would get it from Croydon as it would take forever, and the extra tunnelling required would be significantly more expensive in an area generally already with a high density of railway stations. Extend too far and you also get the 'Victoria Line problem' - i.e. overloading the line in Zone 1 with full trains of passengers from further out.
The whole scheme now seems to be focused on opening up access to the Old Kent Road area to enable housing growth to help address London's housing issues (and thus probably provide some third party funding for the scheme).
There was a rather excellent article on London Reconnnections about it last year - worth a read.
You seem to have a contradictory view. On the one hand you suggest no one would take the trains from Croydon, but on the other hand, you suggest that the trains could be full before reaching zone 1, which implies people would take it. The overground also goes there and I would imagine its already well loaded having taken other overground routes (before and after they became the overground). Once a route is on the tube map, it becomes well loaded. Not enough people know about the existing rail routes other than the local commuters.
I believe if the Bakerloo line had a few termini along the route, the crowding would not be an issue if it went as far as Croydon. In fact, it may have some financial backing given the regeneration going on in the area.
When serious consideration was being given to extending the Bakerloo to Hayes, I suggested on this forum that Tramlink be extended from New Addington the relatively short distance to Hayes Station, thus giving the residents of that railless suburb (NA) the alternative to a ride to East or West Croydon for a train connection. I still think that's far more viable than a roundabout direct route to Croydon for the Bakerloo, regardless of the level of service proposed.
You seem to have a contradictory view. On the one hand you suggest no one would take the trains from Croydon, but on the other hand, you suggest that the trains could be full before reaching zone 1, which implies people would take it. The overground also goes there and I would imagine its already well loaded having taken other overground routes (before and after they became the overground). Once a route is on the tube map, it becomes well loaded. Not enough people know about the existing rail routes other than the local commuters.
You seem to have a contradictory view. On the one hand you suggest no one would take the trains from Croydon, but on the other hand, you suggest that the trains could be full before reaching zone 1, which implies people would take it. The overground also goes there and I would imagine its already well loaded having taken other overground routes (before and after they became the overground). Once a route is on the tube map, it becomes well loaded. Not enough people know about the existing rail routes other than the local commuters.
I believe if the Bakerloo line had a few termini along the route, the crowding would not be an issue if it went as far as Croydon. In fact, it may have some financial backing given the regeneration going on in the area.
TfL have opened another consultation for the Lewisham extension. Personally not happy there are only three stations proposed between Elephant and Lewisham. Have suggested there should be one at Walworth as there is a proposal for a ventilation shaft there. No interchange with Queen's Road Peckham, New Cross or Deptford Bridge either as proposed by some
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/bakerloo-extension/consultation/subpage.2015-09-03.3976631085/
Just looking at the wider area, if it were to keep to a south-easterly direction, what about calling at Bromley and ending at Orpington?
BLE will not go further than Lewisham, and the reasons are obvious:-
they don't want already packed trains entering the central area.
A good design for the extension would leave options open to take the line down the Hayes line in the future, but it is not going to happen with this extension.
The Lewisham connection will relieve pressure on southeastern services. It will also mean passengers from Lewisham and New Cross can get into Charing Cross on trains that arrive empty instead of already full, which is pretty nice.
Having looked at the consultation proposals I'd have thought a station at Bricklayers Arms, where a ventilation shaft is also proposed, would be better than at the Walworth site which is situated closer to one of the proposed stations. Someone on here will know if there ever was a passenger station at BA - I know about the old goods depot.
If you look at the spacing of the stations beyond Queens Park it is not all that different. It's certainly better than the Vic line between Kings Cross and Seven Sisters.
Not sure about Walworth, but the line doesn't actually run close enough to any of Queens Road Peckham, New Cross or Deptford Bridge. Moving it would make it longer. Half the ELL core trains call at New Cross Gate so that is clearly the better interchange of the three ELL stations. More SE trains call at Lewisham than New Cross which again knocks that stations credentials, and Lewisham is a much better interchange for the DLR with trains stationary for a few minutes and the station being under cover.
-Nobody would take it from Croydon, as the journey time would be ridiculous compared to main line services
You seem to have a contradictory view. On the one hand you suggest no one would take the trains from Croydon, but on the other hand, you suggest that the trains could be full before reaching zone 1, which implies people would take it. The overground also goes there and I would imagine its already well loaded having taken other overground routes (before and after they became the overground). Once a route is on the tube map, it becomes well loaded. Not enough people know about the existing rail routes other than the local commuters.
I believe if the Bakerloo line had a few termini along the route, the crowding would not be an issue if it went as far as Croydon. In fact, it may have some financial backing given the regeneration going on in the area.
BLE will not go further than Lewisham, and the reasons are obvious:-
they don't want already packed trains entering the central area.
A good design for the extension would leave options open to take the line down the Hayes line in the future, but it is not going to happen with this extension.
The Lewisham connection will relieve pressure on southeastern services. It will also mean passengers from Lewisham and New Cross can get into Charing Cross on trains that arrive empty instead of already full, which is pretty nice.
From the consultation papers, I'd say that they still have the Hayes line in mind for any further extension. Put it this way, Bexleyheath bound it ain't!