Beggar aboard at Birmingham New Street!

[Hellfire]

I just experienced a beggar on the 0651 XC Stoke-Piccadilly.

A fella entered the packed carriage just after Macclesfield and loudly announced that he needed 21 quid to get somewhere. Clutching a fistful of pound coins, he told the carriage that if we didn't believe him then he would hand over his passport and IPhone. A number of people did hand money over.

Full credit to the train manager as BTP were waiting for the train on the arrival platform at Piccadilly.

It's because some people hand money over that these beggars are encouraged to do it. Most charities advise people never to give to beggars but, if you want to help a good cause, put it in a charity collection box. All too often the cash will be spent on drugs. The Underground is rife with them. Eastern European women carrying babies is a favourite tactic

 

[paddington]

As mentioned this is quite common in Germany as there are no barriers at any stations, and also common in France where nobody cares if you force open / crawl under the barriers. I've also experienced it in Spain and Luxembourg.

In Germany people seem to hand over money quite frequently.

I however had never encountered this in the UK until just before Christmas when a man made it onto the London Overground and started shouting out some rubbish, he then claimed to be a "travelling poet". Nobody even looked at him, he walked down two carriages and did it again, then for some reason came back and started spouting off again whereupon he was loudly heckled

 

[Camden]

The money being spent on drink and drugs is the least of the problems, as those are at least people begging for themselves. Can judge all you like about that, but it's simply a person who has fallen off life's tracks in some way and giving/not giving won't make any difference to that.

The big problem is those that are part of begging gangs, whether doing it for money or being manipulated in some way into doing it. The money people give ends up in real criminal pockets, to do who knows what with. That really needs tackling.

Unfortunately, it's a situation obviously complicated by the government's benefits regimes because the number of people driven to beg for money has multiplied in the last half a dozen years or so. Whether people are troubled or just down on their luck, if the government stops their money because they failed some arbitrary test or task then they have a choice of either asking for some or committing crime to get it. Stopping people's money doesn't make troubled people evaporate, and stopping the money of people down on their luck can easily tip them into the troubled category.

I would never suggest giving money to beggars, but I do think people should think about all of this more. It seems to me that as a society we are being hardened and taught to see cruel and unfortunate scenarios as "that's life", by a government trying to con us into still paying them tax but not having the social security system that goes with it.

I know who the real "beggars" are!

 

[FordFocus]

I admire how some beggars are quite honest. The other day a chap came up to me and asked me for 50p as "he needed to buy a can of Special (brew) from the offy"

 

[Mag_seven]

Increase in beggars, increase in food banks? - the Tories must be in power!

 

[rebmcr]

The money being spent on drink and drugs is the least of the problems, as those are at least people begging for themselves. Can judge all you like about that, but it's simply a person who has fallen off life's tracks in some way and giving/not giving won't make any difference to that.

The big problem is those that are part of begging gangs, whether doing it for money or being manipulated in some way into doing it. The money people give ends up in real criminal pockets, to do who knows what with. That really needs tackling.

Unfortunately, it's a situation obviously complicated by the government's benefits regimes because the number of people driven to beg for money has multiplied in the last half a dozen years or so. Whether people are troubled or just down on their luck, if the government stops their money because they failed some arbitrary test or task then they have a choice of either asking for some or committing crime to get it. Stopping people's money doesn't make troubled people evaporate, and stopping the money of people down on their luck can easily tip them into the troubled category.

I would never suggest giving money to beggars, but I do think people should think about all of this more. It seems to me that as a society we are being hardened and taught to see cruel and unfortunate scenarios as "that's life", by a government trying to con us into still paying them tax but not having the social security system that goes with it.

I know who the real "beggars" are!

Hear hear!

 

[6Gman]

I was stopped by a beggar in France I said I am English " N pale France Pa "
He then asked me for money in English I told him in English to s... off

A working knowledge of Welsh can be useful on these occasions ...

 

[Master29]

No sympathy for any of them. Mostly syringe vendors or alkies anyway

 

[185143]

I've had a bloke stop me in Manchester multiple times. I've recognised him each time as he's asked if I'm from Manchester (as an attempt to make conversation, that dosen't change the request-I've answered yes and no!).

Each time he's had a story that he's not been able to afford his train to Leeds or he's missed his Megabus to Birmingham or whatever.

Last time I saw him was at Piccadilly station, claiming he was stranded and had spoken to TOC staff and BTP and they couldn't do anything, so did I have change for a coach fare. Not letting on I knew him, I offered to speak to BTP with him, to which he politely declined but still wanted money. I had a word with BTP anyway and told them the story. No idea how that ended sadly as I had to catch my last train home! Not seen him since though...

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[Steveman]

The money being spent on drink and drugs is the least of the problems, as those are at least people begging for themselves. Can judge all you like about that, but it's simply a person who has fallen off life's tracks in some way and giving/not giving won't make any difference to that.

The big problem is those that are part of begging gangs, whether doing it for money or being manipulated in some way into doing it. The money people give ends up in real criminal pockets, to do who knows what with. That really needs tackling.

Unfortunately, it's a situation obviously complicated by the government's benefits regimes because the number of people driven to beg for money has multiplied in the last half a dozen years or so. Whether people are troubled or just down on their luck, if the government stops their money because they failed some arbitrary test or task then they have a choice of either asking for some or committing crime to get it. Stopping people's money doesn't make troubled people evaporate, and stopping the money of people down on their luck can easily tip them into the troubled category.

I would never suggest giving money to beggars, but I do think people should think about all of this more. It seems to me that as a society we are being hardened and taught to see cruel and unfortunate scenarios as "that's life", by a government trying to con us into still paying them tax but not having the social security system that goes with it.

I know who the real "beggars" are!

Never read such rubbish in all my life. My daughter was harassed by one of these wonderful misjudged and disadvantaged people down on their luck last year outside Ipswich station, when she said no to his demands for cash he pulled a screwdriver on her.
I was watching Janet Ellis ex of Blue Peter on tv yesterday and she said she never ever went past anybody asking for money and didn't give them something as she simply couldn't walk past.
This is the woman who has said telling someone to cheer up should be classed as a hate crime.
She is a fully paid up member of the N. London virtue signalling bleeding hearts brigade and with so many gullible do-gooders like her about no wonder so many scrotes see begging and crime as a wonderful career opportunity.

 

[boxy321]

What about the ones on the train begging for attention?

7:00AM, everyone is sleeping/drinking tea or coffee/reading the paper/looking at their phone or screen.

All except the motormouth...

This morning it was a monologue about car insurance. He/she (I won't mention which) was probably going on about it all the way from London.

Every single morning there is an individual within earshot who needs to be louder than everyone else in the carriage put together. I feel sorry for their colleagues who get 3 words in for their 300 as they announce their business to the world. This usually continues during the wait to get off and on the stairs from the platform.

 

[misterredmist]

I was approached by a beggar about 10 years back upon exiting Piccadilly , who asked if I had 'money for of a cup of tea?' .... I said if you want a cup of tea, we'll go to the nearest cafe and I'll gladly buy you one.... surprise, surprise, he declined.

This is not new, there's just more of them and they are getting bolder.

I don't give, end of.........

 

[matt_world2004]

Earlier this evening I was making my way from Coventry to Chesterfield. Whilst the train was paused for 10 minutes or so at Birmingham New Street an individual boarded the train and in a very polite manner: "Can I have your attention please folks, I desperately need to catch this train to Newcastle when it leaves in a few minutes, I'm about £7 short of the fare, can anyone spare some change even if it's only 50p."

Like most I was suspicious and ignored him. And wondered:

Birmingham New Street (BHM) being a security conscious station, how did he get to the platform without a ticket? As walk on fares go, £7 towards Birmingham to Newcastle is a bit of a negligible contribution, thus if he was only £7 short he already had a lot more ready. (I checked on my phone which revealed that 5 minutes before departure an Advance single was available for £57).

Be honest. Who thinks he was merely an imaginative beggar? Anyone seen similar incidents?

Transport for London did an audit of rough sleepers and beggars on the transport network Something like 80% of them had a valid ticket for their journey. The beggar in question probably wasn't going to Newcastle. but either had a return ticket to another destination on the line or a season. They would probably travel up tand down the line all day collecting money and if challenged by an RPI or guard present a ticket that would appear valid for the journey (how is an rpi going to tell they have used the same ticket ten times that day).

 

[shredder1]

People in desperate situations do desperate things. I`m a bit of a soft touch I guess, I always try to help the less fortunate and take my changes with the deviant. If someone homeless is sat outside say a McDonald s, I`ll go in and buy them a meal, or give money to big life sellers, I`m always a bit dubious of those that approach me directly for money, but have given this way. This is a society problem though, not an individual one.

 

[Robertj21a]

People in desperate situations do desperate things. I`m a bit of a soft touch I guess, I always try to help the less fortunate and take my changes with the deviant. If someone homeless is sat outside say a McDonald s, I`ll go in and buy them a meal, or give money to big life sellers, I`m always a bit dubious of those that approach me directly for money, but have given this way. This is a society problem though, not an individual one.

I applaud your kindness, there's not much of it around nowadays!

Unfortunately, you're making matters even worse most of the time. Whatever you believe, the vast majority will have drug/alcohol/mental issues that require professional treatment - not funding to encourage them to continue in their current lifestyle. By all means buy them a tea, or a pint of milk, but any more really doesn't help them in the longer term.

 

[boxy321]

I was approached by the Nat West cashpoints in New St on Saturday.

While I was using the machine a female voice came from behind;

"Can you please help me?"

"How?"

"I have an iphone... Prove I'm legit... blah blah." (I was only half listening).

She had £5 or something and needed a bit more to get somewhere. I tell them they can come with me for £1 using the NWM Friends & Family ticket, at which point they change their mind. Same happens at Coventry (mostly outside) and I'm sick of them.

There's an Indian woman sits outside the Bull Ring Entrance wailing all day and some aggresive types outside Moor St.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

My flatmate walked by somebody in Birmingham asking for money to get to Nottingham a few years ago, and the exact same thing then happened to me a few weeks later. I'm fairly certain I bumped into the same bloke again late last year asking for money to get to Stoke. On both occasions I met him he had been with a friend who had been arrested for driving without insurance and cannabis possession.

 

[richieb1971]

Exiting Bedford station at night there is quite often a pretty girl or man asking for funds to get somewhere.

You have to ask yourself these questions -

Where are their friends?
Where are their families?
Is there a person in the UK that doesn't have a phone to call someone they know?

 

[takno]

Exiting Bedford station at night there is quite often a pretty girl or man asking for funds to get somewhere.

You have to ask yourself these questions -

Where are their friends?
Where are their families?
Is there a person in the UK that doesn't have a phone to call someone they know?

Alienated, dead or they were the abusers that started the alienation cycle, and yes. There are lots of reasons why people would be unable or unwilling to fall back on a support network, and in simple communication terms if my phone dies for any reason I'm not sure I know any phone numbers. In any case if I'm stuck somewhere without any means of buying a ticket (because my wallet has been stolen, or I lost the return and I don't carry much cash), how on earth are these people going to get the money to me.

Most of the stories are complete fabrications, but the reason they work is that it is perfectly possible to legitimately end up in exactly the situation they are claiming to be in.

 

[Robertj21a]

If anyone is truly desperate for funds they can approach Social Services, the local Council welfare unit or the Police. They won't give them cash but they will check out their story and ensure they come to no harm.

 

[6Gman]

Alienated, dead or they were the abusers that started the alienation cycle, and yes. There are lots of reasons why people would be unable or unwilling to fall back on a support network, and in simple communication terms if my phone dies for any reason I'm not sure I know any phone numbers. In any case if I'm stuck somewhere without any means of buying a ticket (because my wallet has been stolen, or I lost the return and I don't carry much cash), how on earth are these people going to get the money to me.

Most of the stories are complete fabrications, but the reason they work is that it is perfectly possible to legitimately end up in exactly the situation they are claiming to be in.

Then you go to the police, who will get you sorted.

 

[Camden]

Some people are so damaged, incapable or addled that, while it's quite straightforward for an average middle class fellow to talk about approaching the authorities, it's a totally different kettle of fish.

In reality, if your average middle class fellow were to lose his job, his home and possibly his health there is a fair chance that he would also lose his mental capacity to think straight. Let alone people born into crack dens etc!

You don't have to approve of someone's lifestyle to have at least some empathy (or at least a realistic view).

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Birmingham's got a lot of mentions in this thread. Working in Birmingham there are certainly a lot of folks on the street - perhaps more than ever. I'm sure it's the same in a lot of major cities. I've been touched by stories of people this winter and last who have died on the streets in Birmingham and Wolverhampton.

The problem I find is that you just can't tell who's genuine and who isn't.

I've given to people and felt that they needed it, felt like I've done some good.

I've given to people and felt like a sucker, "I've been had there".

I've not given to people and felt guilty about it, felt like I should have done.

I guess you just have to make a judgement each and every time it happens... and if you think you've made the wrong judgement, then suck it up, buttercup...

 

[Simon11]

My opinion is that I pay my taxes, of which some of it goes to provide housing for these people. If they are in need of accommodation, it will be provided.

Most of the people on the streets are there because they have made that decision- either because they want money (but have been given accommodation) or because they've broken the rules at the hostel, thus being kicked out.

A good friend of mine works for Birmingham council and has worked a lot to deal with these issues. When a beggar approached him on the street, he provides them with information of where they can get help & accommodation- its amusing how many people just 'run' off.

 

[Robertj21a]

My opinion is that I pay my taxes, of which some of it goes to provide housing for these people. If they are in need of accommodation, it will be provided.

Most of the people on the streets are there because they have made that decision- either because they want money (but have been given accommodation) or because they've broken the rules at the hostel, thus being kicked out.

A good friend of mine works for Birmingham council and has worked a lot to deal with these issues. When a beggar approached him on the street, he provides them with information of where they can get help & accommodation- its amusing how many people just 'run' off.

It's the same with a large proportion of 'beggars', they just make it far more difficult for any genuine cases.
I seem to often get targeted with something like 'I just need 50p for my bus fare' - at which point I ask where they're going and/or why they can't walk there. I've yet to receive any response (other than abuse).

 

[heart-of-wessex]

When people come begging to me for train fares they really need to do their homework!

Apparently a walk up fare from Euston - Northampton is £7 on Virgin Trains...

Having argued the price and told him VT don't call there at that time he buggered off.
Funnily enoughI saw him a month or so later and asked me again, probably forgot me, this time it was £7 for a Penzance ticket!!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

When people come begging to me for train fares they really need to do their homework!

Apparently a walk up fare from Euston - Northampton is £7 on Virgin Trains...

Having argued the price and told him VT don't call there at that time he buggered off. Funnily enough I saw him a month or so later and asked me again, probably forgot me, this time it was £7 for a Penzance ticket!!

I'd would've turned round and said to bloke that he could jump on for free , the silly *****r probably would have boarded and got himself stranded along with a reward called an Unpaid Fares Notice for fare evation, that's one way to get rid of them.

Just a thought, you could always give them unwanted Euros. They can't exactly use them in Britain but it'd knacker up their scam after the tender would be refused and the railway only accepts cash in Sterling.

 

[Clip]

I know from experience of working in a major sstation that these people are false and do not want to go anywhere - I know people like to be seen to help others but when you have to turf out the same people day after dy after day including one who is dressed in a suit then its time people stopped giving them money as they only come back time and time again.

If people really truly want to get home there are other ways for them to do so - just stop giving them money.

 

[Camden]

I'd would've turned round and said to bloke that he could jump on for free , the silly *****r probably would have boarded and got himself stranded along with a reward called an Unpaid Fares Notice for fare evation, that's one way to get rid of them.

Just a thought, you could always give them unwanted Euros. They can't exactly use them in Britain but it'd knacker up their scam after the tender would be refused and the railway only accepts cash in Sterling.

Aside from being somewhat mean and wrong, I doubt that many people who ask for money towards their train fare are actually going anywhere on the train... which I think is the point being made when he says the beggars need to do their research...

Hopefully you'll never find yourself homeless or otherwise down on your luck... Lord only knows where in the country you might end up!!

 

[PeterC]

Funnily enoughI saw him a month or so later and asked me again, probably forgot me

My daughter once had the same sob story twice in one week.

the usual spiel on London Underground is money for a hostel place that night which at least "justifies" being spotted again a day or two later.

When I used to work near Blackfriars there was a well dressed elderly man who was very careless with his wallet as he seemed to need regular help "getting home".