Best EMUs

[33011]

Are we talking international or UK?
In this country I am a huge fan of Siemens builds such as the desiro and the Velaro. I think the stadler flirts and 390s are great too. 323s are my favourite from the older generation.

Entirely up to you whether uk or international

 

[Bletchleyite]

The first class 2+1 seating in the centre trailer was little used until they were declassified, when it became the most popular. It was always ironic to travel from Euston to Liverpool in a Mk 3 and then transfer to the local train to the Wirral in notably better seats. I wouldn't have minded going in the 503 trailer all the way to London.

I know ironing boards are Marmite, but I have genuinely heard "this is far nicer than the London train" from people boarding a 195 at Lancaster for Barrow having got off the Pendolino there.

Back to EMUs, I always found a 50x felt nice and homely having got off the draughty Preston Pacer at Ormskirk.

 

[Tynwald]

502 & 503 for me. What I grew up with. 506 were pretty characterful too.

 

[Taunton]

502 & 503 for me. What I grew up with. 506 were pretty characterful too.

There seemed to me a notable difference between 502 (Southport) and 503 (Wirral) units, despite being of comparable vintage, in fact the Southport stock was built slightly later, illogically for the TOPS numbering, and by the LMS shops at Derby instead of the Birmingham area contractors. They seemed, and sounded, more ponderous, and had all the rattles and vibration the Wirral cars lacked. They had almost double the installed power, despite being used on completely flat routes instead of the roller-coaster under the Mersey. The outside condition towards the end was also the opposite, big areas of rust and peeling paint. Different depot managers I presume. The interiors did look similar, they were overhauled at Horwich with common grey paint and Trojan moquette.

 

[43096]

I'll second votes for the 442, but with the caveat that I think refurbishment has ruined them. The original design, with the first class compartments, buffet and snug area, was absolutely superb. Now, they seem rather ordinary.

No squeaking gangways and banging vestibule doors to annoy you?

 

[Bletchleyite]

No squeaking gangways and banging vestibule doors to annoy you?

Despite looking like Mk3s, the 442 as built fixed a number of problems with them:
- The vestibule doors aren't automatic but opened using a handle (then the power takes over).
- The lighting is nicer and more subdued, I think the same as the last build of Mk3s (which were FOs only)
- The seats are not IC70s
- Power doors

It's a real shame the main fleet of Mk3s wasn't the same.

I'd say a 444 is a worthy successor, in some ways a bit nicer. I wonder if they just showed a Siemens bod around a 442 and said "make me a modern version of that"?

 

[DustyBin]

I like any of the old Southern slammers, it’s difficult to choose one favourite type but Bulleid design EPBs would be up there, along with the CEPs and CIGs (along with their buffet car’d counterparts). I also really like the MLVs for there versatility and uniqueness, and although before my time, the all steel SUBs which were great looking units.

In terms of modern units, I really like the 321s (and 322s) unsurprisingly. They look great and have that traditional EMU sound. I have fond memories of the 315s, 319s and 456s so they’re among my favourites. I also like the Networker family, they still feel very modern to me despite being BR era.

 

[Tynwald]

The 502 & 503 were very different trains, though they looked similar. There were even significant differences between the 1938 built, and 1956 built 503.
Then there was the 2 hybrid units. 28678 & 28687, which had 1938 built power cars, and 1956 built trailers. this was due to war damage.

 

[Richard Scott]

Ah, interesting feedback - but what did you think of the seats ?

I must admit, as a regular traveller on the Southern slammers, I wasn't aware of any carriage of those being more likely to explode !

I honestly can't remember sitting in that coach so couldn't say. Southern are DC units so no transformers to explode!!

 

[Polarbear]

Of the older generation, 4-REP’s, preferably with just one 4-TC in tow/shove. 309’s would be a close second.

Modern day, 365’s.

 

[mspljd1990]

333s or 323s. Both absolutely perfect for the local commuter/suburban routes they serve, and are more comfortable and smooth than certain particular trains used for more long distance services *cough*Class150*cough*

 

[Journeyman]

No squeaking gangways and banging vestibule doors to annoy you?

No, actually, as described by @Bletchleyite. They were pretty much the last Mark 3 vehicles constructed, and had a LOT of improvements over the original, somewhat flawed design. Interior noise levels were much better.

 

[Mag_seven]

For me it has to be the Class 303/311 as those were the units of my childhood. In particular I liked the 311 as they felt slightly more modern than the 303 with brighter lights and I think different coloured seats to the 303?

 

[Vespa]

I liked the 507 and 508 Merseyrail, solid performer and no computer softwares to throw its teddy out, the new seats are quite comfortable, the original 70s seats were not and had puke yellow tartan pattern which aged rapidly and the fabrics often sagged and torn at corners, since refurbishment it's at its best ever for seat comfort, interest eye-catching hard wearing fabric, flooring.

Soon to be replaced by 777 the jury isstill out on that as they are not yet in service so I don't how it rides or seat comfort for long trips.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I liked the 507 and 508 Merseyrail, solid performer and no computer softwares to throw its teddy out, the new seats are quite comfortable, the original 70s seats were not and had puke yellow tartan pattern which aged rapidly and the fabrics often sagged and torn at corners, since refurbishment it's at its best ever for seat comfort, interest eye-catching hard wearing fabric, flooring.

They're comfortable and reliable (and hold memories for me as I grew up with them, pretty much literally as they were "born" in the same year as me ), but it really must have taken some effort to design a unit and layout on which no seat at all has an acceptable window view.

Soon to be replaced by 777 the jury isstill out on that as they are not yet in service so I don't how it rides or seat comfort for long trips.

Less comfortable, as the seats are harder and not as well spaced to create more capacity, and there is (unless they have fixed it) a silly design flaw in the headrest which has a protruding bit at the bottom which, because they are low seats, pushes into the back of your shoulders.

 

[Kneedown]

Fond memories of 304's and 310's as a kid. Lovely units. I quite liked the look of the 321's when they started appearing too.
I'm down for a 360 course in a few weeks so I hope I find them agreeable!

 

[Journeyman]

Fond memories of 304's and 310's as a kid. Lovely units. I quite liked the look of the 321's when they started appearing too.
I'm down for a 360 course in a few weeks so I hope I find them agreeable!

The 321s certainly struck me as quite futuristic looking when they appeared. I'm not convinced the cab front design has aged very well, but they looked striking and very modern when new.

 

[DGH 1]

The 321s certainly struck me as quite futuristic looking when they appeared. I'm not convinced the cab front design has aged very well, but they looked striking and very modern when new.

This might sound a bit odd, but i've always thought they look a bit oriental.

 

[delt1c]

For me it has to be the Class 303/311 as those were the units of my childhood. In particular I liked the 311 as they felt slightly more modern than the 303 with brighter lights and I think different coloured seats to the 303?

Fully Agree, a trip along the North Clyde yo Helensburgh was amazing , comfy (bouncy seats) , fantastic view behind the driver and always warm and snug regardless of time of year. Front shared design with 124's. Originaly known as Blue trainsw as the DMU's were the Green trains.
Never understood why LM and GE units were slam door

 

[bramling]

Dishonourable mention to the 507/508 because they're reliable workhorses I grew up with, but it really must have taken some effort to design a unit in which not a single seat has an acceptable window view.

That isn’t quite true (IMO), the middle bays of the three sections of each vehicle aren’t too bad, still not wonderful though.

The 321s certainly struck me as quite futuristic looking when they appeared. I'm not convinced the cab front design has aged very well, but they looked striking and very modern when new.

I find the 321 front end looks dated to the point of being cringeworthy now. By contrast the only slightly newer Networker front end to me looks simply functional and timeless, though some of the changes applied subsequent to build have spoiled it - the smiley face on the 365s in particular, but also things like the anti-surfing boards on the 465s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That isn’t quite true (IMO), the middle bays of the three sections of each vehicle aren’t too bad, still not wonderful though.

You can see out if you turn your head sideways, but you can't look out along the coach very well, which is the more relaxing way. If anything it was better with the low backed seats in this regard.

If I'd been designing them I'd have gone with, per section, 4 bays aligned with the windows and side-facing seats door pockets (two in the middle coach centre section which is slightly longer). Or airline seats against the door pockets, which I think is what the original PEP did.

I find the 321 front end looks dated to the point of being cringeworthy now. By contrast the only slightly newer Networker front end to me looks simply functional and timeless, though some of the changes applied subsequent to build have spoiled it - the smiley face on the 365s in particular, but also things like the anti-surfing boards on the 465s.

I think early-90s features do look really dated, a bit like 1970s ones. The 1980s designs kept it simple and functional rather than stylised so don't look dated at all. With regard to Networkers, the type with the very rounded windows look dated, the other type don't, though the interior dates both, with a lot of things that looked hyper-modern in the 1990s but now look a bit "this is what it will be like in 2000". I think similarly the ribbon-glazed *stars will look dated in 20 years' time because that was a very 2000s look, whereas the newer gasket glazed type and Aventras are more timeless.

So a Class 317 (with normal hopper windows, not the weird ventilators) probably looks less dated than a 319 or 321 despite the latter being newer (and otherwise basically the same thing). Or similarly a 455, though the interior dates it a lot. Even PEPs don't really look dated, and indeed my sister (who isn't an enthusiast, but we were talking about them and FLIRTs) thought the present 50x fleet was a 1990s replacement for the originals, because of how comprehensive the refurb was.

 

[DustyBin]

That isn’t quite true (IMO), the middle bays of the three sections of each vehicle aren’t too bad, still not wonderful though.



I find the 321 front end looks dated to the point of being cringeworthy now. By contrast the only slightly newer Networker front end to me looks simply functional and timeless, though some of the changes applied subsequent to build have spoiled it - the smiley face on the 365s in particular, but also things like the anti-surfing boards on the 465s.

I think the 321 front end still looks really good! It strikes the right balance between styling and functionality in my opinion, sleek without trying too hard. I agree with everything you say about the Networkers though, a really nice design gradually ruined (the smiley face treatment is hideous!).

 

[bramling]

My favourites are EPB's, phase 1 CIG's and thumpers, but all the old slammers were wonderful !

I’d have to agree with all of those. Indeed it’s very hard to choose between the 1950s/60s EMUs. 302, 303, 304, 305, 307, 308, 415, 416, 421 and 423 all lovely in my view.

Personally I never quite saw what was so good about 309s, though to be fair I hardly ever went on one. I’ve also missed out 411 as the refurbishment spoiled these, though from pictures of them in pre-refurb condition (which sadly I never experienced) they look like they were very nice indeed.

However I do have a soft spot for some newer classes. 365 is top of my list, though they have been dumbed down upon refurbishment (interesting how over the years there’s more than one example of refurbishments spoiling good units). 323s I have a soft spot for, as they’re a good simple design that happens to sound nice too, and to be fair Electrostars are pretty nice really, especially the earlier versions and the Connex interior variants in particular). 317 has to be on the list too, and perhaps 333 as well.

Perhaps it’s easier to list which classes I *don’t* like, though unfortunately many of the EMUs we’re seeing enter service at the moment might be on this list. Some recent classes have been pretty poorly specified IMO. Something like the 700 is an excellent concept but spoiled by a lousy interior.

They didn't. Rubbish seats (though the MBSs of 001-015 got better seats when converted to MBSO), rubbish ride and dingy.

One person’s dingy is another’s luxury!

 

[yorksrob]

I’d have to agree with all of those. Indeed it’s very hard to choose between the 1950s/60s EMUs. 302, 303, 304, 305, 307, 308, 415, 416, 421 and 423 all lovely in my view.

Personally I never quite saw what was so good about 309s, though to be fair I hardly ever went on one. I’ve also missed out 411 as the refurbishment spoiled these, though from pictures of them in pre-refurb condition (which sadly I never experienced) they look like they were very nice indeed.

However I do have a soft spot for some newer classes. 365 is top of my list, though they have been dumbed down upon refurbishment (interesting how over the years there’s more than one example of refurbishments spoiling good units). 323s I have a soft spot for, as they’re a good simple design that happens to sound nice too, and to be fair Electrostars are pretty nice really, especially the earlier versions and the Connex interior variants in particular). 317 has to be on the list too, and perhaps 333 as well.

Perhaps it’s easier to list which classes I *don’t* like, though unfortunately many of the EMUs we’re seeing enter service at the moment might be on this list. Some recent classes have been pretty poorly specified IMO. Something like the 700 is an excellent concept but spoiled by a lousy interior.



One person’s dingy is another’s luxury!

I agree. I far prefer tasteful subdued tungsten lighting, to clinically bright flourescent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree. I far prefer tasteful subdued tungsten lighting, to clinically bright flourescent.

I agree, though I'd go with LED these days. Another thing that improves it is it being indirect.

 

[yorksrob]

I agree, though I'd go with LED these days. Another thing that improves it is it being indirect.

And having individual reading lamps in standard.

The phase 1 CIG's with reading lamps integrated with the luggage racks was a particularly classy piece of design IMO.

 

[bramling]

I agree. I far prefer tasteful subdued tungsten lighting, to clinically bright flourescent.

One funny thing though, I went on the Dartmoor 205 (205032) a few years ago. Apart from the fact this was at the time like a time capsule, right down to retaining its SouthCentral interior route maps from the early 2000s era, it also retained the flourescent tubes from the same time, which have a very conspicuously more pink hue than some of the nasty daylight or bright white that seemed to be a fad particularly in the later 2000s and early 2010s. For some reason I found this extremely evocative. It’s often small and weird things which seem to trigger past memories.

I agree, though I'd go with LED these days. Another thing that improves it is it being indirect.

LED can be okay. The standby lighting mode on the 700s is actually quite pleasant. A minority of drivers seem to choose to select it off their own back, which is very decent of them to do so. One presumes that once selected on the train’s TMS it will remain like that for the rest of the day unless someone deselects it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One funny thing though, I went on the Dartmoor 205 (205032) a few years ago. Apart from the fact this was at the time like a time capsule, right down to retaining its SouthCentral interior route maps from the early 2000s era, it also retained the flourescent tubes from the same time, which have a very conspicuously more pink hue than some of the nasty daylight or bright white that seemed to be a fad particularly in the later 2000s and early 2010s. For some reason I found this extremely evocative. It’s often small and weird things which seem to trigger past memories.

Some newer trains use warm white as well - Class 185s and Pendolinos/Voyagers being notable examples. TfL also moved back to warm white with the S-stock.

LED can be okay. The standby lighting mode on the 700s is actually quite pleasant. A minority of drivers seem to choose to select it off their own back, which is very decent of them to do so. One presumes that once selected on the train’s TMS it will remain like that for the rest of the day unless someone deselects it.

Is that about half lighting? Problem with 700s (and 331s for that matter, but not 397s so Northern clearly cheaped out on that as well) is that it's direct rather than indirect. While 80x are a bit bright, it's less harsh because it points mostly upwards.

LEDs can replicate any tungsten (or fluorescent) lighting type, with the only way of knowing it isn't tungsten being that it uses about 1/10 of the electricity and doesn't give off a load of heat. It's just about how much you are willing to pay for the quality.

 

[jp4712]

I was lucky enough to live on the Manchester - Bury line so my childhood and young adulthood was spent on the unique class 504. They have a special place in my heart, but it's not just old=good because a) they were astonishingly comfortable for a short-haul unit; and b) the sounds were lovely - the EE504 motor whine, the vacuum exhauster (or was it an air compressor) kicking in, the electrickery humming away in the silence at each station stop...

Getting slightly newer, I'd add a vote for the 323. They should have been a new standard and at nearly 30 years old they still have a lesson or two for new trains, not least in acceleration.

I'm not that experienced on the new crop, but like one of the posters above I'd take an Electrostar over a Siemens from a passenger perspective, but one mustn't forget that the interior passenger experience is down to the TOC or ROSCO specifications rather than the train's inherent capability. This point was brought home to me on the Trent Valley semi-fasts when one day, the appalling First Class on the LM-spec 350 (no actual difference in seats so no recline, 2 + 2, no legroom) was replaced by one of the ex-TPE units with 2 + 1 seating and plenty of space to stretch out in my reclining seat.

 

[DarloRich]

Class 350: one in service failure in 10 years daily travel. Comfortable, speedy, accelerate quickly, efficient, reliable, Germanic.

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