Biggest steam locomotive ever used in the UK

[YankeeRailfan]

I'm from the US so please excuse my ignorance regarding your traction (steam or diesel electric). Your 2-10-0's are the biggest steamers in use correct?

 

[6Gman]

I'm from the US so please excuse my ignorance regarding your traction (steam or diesel electric). Your 2-10-0's are the biggest steamers in use correct?

Yes, but ...

Currently the Riddles 2-10-0s are the biggest steam loco.

However, in the past there were - I think - bigger locos used. Notably the LMS and LNER Garratts.

(Of course it depends how you define 'biggest' - weight, length, power.)

 

[Spamcan81]

I'm from the US so please excuse my ignorance regarding your traction (steam or diesel electric). Your 2-10-0's are the biggest steamers in use correct?

The LNER built a 2-8-0+0-8-2 Garratt. Outweighed and out muscled any other steam loco built for use on the railways of Britain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_U1
http://www.thewoodheadsite.org.uk/c.../BeyerGarratt.htm&menu=/MotivePower/Locos.htm

 

[jopsuk]

The small size that tunnels, bridges and other structures were built to in the early years of the railways fundamentally constricted the size of steam locomotives here- boilers couldn't be made any larger diameter and longer boilers had diminishing efficiency- as well as being a problem on curves with structures. Pushing the size of the boiler bigger would then limit the size of the driving wheels and affect the position of pistons.

The US railways, effectively starting in the wide open prairies and being built decades later, were built for much larger trains from the get go, which is why they were able to construct monsters

 

[WatcherZero]

The China Railways KF 4-8-4 was the largest built in the UK, it was for export but was tested here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Railways_KF

 

[Townsend Hook]

Surely the SAR Garratt at the Museum of Science & Industry in Manchester must be a contender for biggest kettle in the UK today? Admittedly it was never used in anger here.

 

[YankeeRailfan]

Thanks chaps, don't see our N&W 611 ever coming across.

 

[Tobbes]

The LNER built a 2-8-0+0-8-2 Garratt. Outweighed and out muscled any other steam loco built for use on the railways of Britain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_U1
http://www.thewoodheadsite.org.uk/c.../BeyerGarratt.htm&menu=/MotivePower/Locos.htm

Which should give the A1 crew something to be getting on with once the P2 and the V4 are out of the way.....

 

[YankeeRailfan]

Which should give the A1 crew something to be getting on with once the P2 and the V4 are out of the way.....

P2 and V4?

 

[DerekC]

.The US railways, effectively starting in the wide open prairies and being built decades later, were built for much larger trains from the get go, which is why they were able to construct monsters

Bigger, but very little later. North American railroads were close behind those in Europe.

 

[Mugby]

P2 and V4?

They will be the next 'new build' projects. Both designed by Nigel Gresley, the P2 was a 2-8-2 express passenger engine and the V4 was a light 2-6-2 mixed traffic loco.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Currently the Riddles 2-10-0s are the biggest steam.

I would argue that a Stanier Princess Coronation is bigger than a 9F, being longer and taller albeit twenty tons or so lighter. 'Biggest' to me means size rather than weight or power, and on size the Stanier engine has all other extant, operational kettles in the UK beat.

 

[TheEdge]

As has been already said depending on your definition the biggest loco its either the LNER U1, LMS Coronation or BR 9F class.

One not mentioned so far is Big Bertha, a large 0-10-0 loco designed as a banker (helper engine) for the famous Lickey Incline. Interestingly, maybe others could comment, Wikipedia quotes Bertha as having a tractive effort of 43,300lbf, higher than a 9F or Coronation and only just short of the LMS Garratt.

 

[theageofthetra]

Didn't the 'Mardy Monster' have some ridiculously high tractive effort?

 

[Topgun333]

I'd like to see some consistent modding about what is considered historical and therefore moved and what is not?

 

[sprinterguy]

Didn't the 'Mardy Monster' have some ridiculously high tractive effort?

29,527lbf tractive effort, so impressive for an industrial (a typical Hunslet Austerity had a tractive effort of 23,870lbf) but still well short of the big mainline freight and express passenger locos in the "Top Trump" stakes.
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Thanks chaps, don't see our N&W 611 ever coming across.

Now that would be a sight to see, but sadly not: Being a full metre higher (plus change) and presumably somewhat wider than the UK loading gauge, it would no doubt be involved in an altercation with the first bridge or station platform that it encountered, and I suspect that Network Rail would have a fit when they saw the axle loadings!

In terms of sheer size and brute force, many of the steam powered monsters built and operated in America really put even our largest express passenger and heavy freight locomotives to shame, as proud as many of us undoubtedly are of them.

It's not ready yet, but in a few years time we will (hopefully) have a larger and more powerful locomotive than the 9F 2-10-0s, or any other existing preserved loco, in operation in the UK: The Gresley P2 2-8-2 currently being constructed in Darlington: With a tractive effort of 43,460lbf it trounces the heavy freight 9F, and was the most powerful class of express passenger locomotive to run in the UK.
http://www.lner.info/locos/P/p2.php
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They will be the next 'new build' projects. Both designed by Nigel Gresley, the P2 was a 2-8-2 express passenger engine and the V4 was a light 2-6-2 mixed traffic loco.

I hadn't seen anything about the intention to build a new V4; I certainly can't spot anything about it online. Don't the P2 group have enough on their hands building the P2 for the foreseeable future?

 

[Phil.]

In the context of the biggest locomotive used on the railways of Britain I'd say it was the Princess Coronations - popularly referred to as the Duchesses. The previously mentioned 9Fs were just over sixty six feet long whilst the Duchess was just over seventy three feet long. Capable of generating over 3,000 hp when being fired by two firemen to keep that fifty square foot grate fed they were just about the most powerful too.

 

[TheEdge]

In the context of the biggest locomotive used on the railways of Britain I'd say it was the Princess Coronations - popularly referred to as the Duchesses. The previously mentioned 9Fs were just over sixty six feet long whilst the Duchess was just over seventy three feet long. Capable of generating over 3,000 hp when being fired by two firemen to keep that fifty square foot grate fed they were just about the most powerful too.

So are we just ignoring the existence of the LMS Garratt (a class of 33) and the LNER U1? Both of them were heavier, longer and more powerful than the Coronations.

 

[Cowley]

I'm close to The Edge in my opinion that those two classes were the most powerful to run in service on the UK network. Obviously neither class are in existence now so until the P2 comes along it's between a Duchess or a 9F.

 

[reddragon]

The LNER U1 Garrett was a solitary 2-8-0+0-8-2 Beyer-Garratt locomotive designed for banking coal trains over the Worsborough Bank, a steeply graded line in South Yorkshire and part of the Woodhead Route. It was both the longest and the most powerful steam locomotive ever to run in Britain. Tractive effort was 72,940 lbf (324,500 N).

It wins on weight, length, number of wheels, power, tractice effort by a long way!

 

[Townsend Hook]

So to sum up this thread, the LNER U1 is the biggest steam loco to have worked in the UK, and the Stanier Princess Coronation is the biggest steam loco still working in the UK today.

 

[randyrippley]

where does "Duke of Gloucester" come in the power rankings? That was claimed back in the 1960's to be the most powerful steamer in the UK

 

[alexl92]

I hadn't seen anything about the intention to build a new V4; I certainly can't spot anything about it online. Don't the P2 group have enough on their hands building the P2 for the foreseeable future?

I think the V4 was part of their April Fools' announcement last year or the year before. A few people didn't realise! To be fair it was convincingly written.

 

[TheEdge]

where does "Duke of Gloucester" come in the power rankings? That was claimed back in the 1960's to be the most powerful steamer in the UK

She was an 8P so up there. From Wikipedia it gives her 39,080lbf but I'm starting to get dubious about those figures as it gives the Coronation as 40,000lbf and a Princess Royal 40,285lbf...

 

[sprinterguy]

She was an 8P so up there. From Wikipedia it gives her 39,080lbf but I'm starting to get dubious about those figures as it gives the Coronation as 40,000lbf and a Princess Royal 40,285lbf...

The Observer's Book of Railway Locomotives, published in 1957, gives the following tractive efforts for the most powerful express passenger locomotives of the era:

LNER A2/3: 40,320lbf
GWR "King": 40,300lbf
LMS "Princess": 40,300lbf
LMS "Princess Coronation": 40,285lbf
BR "Duke of Gloucester": 39,080lbf

To which you can add the 43,460lbf tractive effort of the P2 (which of course was not extant in 1957).
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I think the V4 was part of their April Fools' announcement last year or the year before. A few people didn't realise! To be fair it was convincingly written.

Thanks, that would make more sense, as a V4 would surely be something of a niche interest!

 

[keith1879]

She was an 8P so up there. From Wikipedia it gives her 39,080lbf but I'm starting to get dubious about those figures as it gives the Coronation as 40,000lbf and a Princess Royal 40,285lbf...

The Princess may well have a higher T.E. due to having smaller driving wheels. T.E. is no more than a theoretical calculation of the maximum force that can be exerted by the machinery at full boiler pressure (actually it is usually assumed as 85% of full pressure).

The Duchess might be a little slower to accelarate but be capable of running at a higher speed because of its larger wheels. The LNER A4 had a substantially lower T.E. than either but could still run very fast and pull extremely heavy loads.

And as far as length goes - the Princess was actually longer over buffers (including tender) than the Duchess. I suspect the P2 would have been a similar size as well. In the end ......... they were all "big"!!!!

 

[Phil.]

So are we just ignoring the existence of the LMS Garratt (a class of 33) and the LNER U1? Both of them were heavier, longer and more powerful than the Coronations.

I wasn't ignoring the Garratt, I was just thinking of "conventional" locomotives.
Tractive effort is not always an end of story as far as power goes. An elephant is stronger than a lion but a lion can run faster.
An A4 pacific and a class 31 both have about the same tractive effort.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think the V4 was part of their April Fools' announcement last year or the year before. A few people didn't realise! To be fair it was convincingly written.

To be fair, we had the Northern and TPE announcements on 1st April this year, and there were things in there that seemed like a wind-up and turned out not to be (return of LHCS, New DMUs for Northern, et cetera)!

 

[aylesbury]

The GER built an 0-10-0 Decapod as an attempt to stop electric trains on certain competitors lines getting approval.

 

[randyrippley]

Interesting to note that some of the UK-built locomotives destined for export were more powerful. For instance Vulcan Foundry built the KF class for China, which according to Wiki had a TE of 43,390 lbf
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Railways_KF
Vulcan also built the Iranian 2-10-2 freight locos in the 1950's which are quoted at 49912 lbf - see
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=Iran&wheel=2-10-2&page=isr

I presume there were other export classes which outperformed these?