Birmingham New Street pollution

[JamesT]

Does the West Coast Partnership franchise mandate an increased level of service over today? The Do Nothing option is merely to wait for HS2 to relieve all the express services then you have lots of spare Pendolinos to use for services entirely under the wires. The rolling stock isn't that old, so there doesn't appear to be the pressing need to replace like some other franchises have.

 

[Meerkat]

Remember that 110 vs 125 is only 4 seconds a mile.

So a minute every fifteen miles.....that’s going to add up pretty quick north of Lancaster isn’t it?

 

[The Planner]

Depends how often you stop and where you use the bi-modes. Why would you use them on a fully electrified route?

 

[boxy321]

A public service annoucement: It is not intended for passengers to spend long periods of time on the platforms at New Street. They are supposed to stay in the lounges.

Thank you.

In three years of commuting through New St I have never sat down there, other than in the 1st class lounge, which I use about 4 times a year. The 'lounge' areas are just chairs in a shopping centre. It takes 3 minutes to get to platform 1 from the pub (NOT All Bar One!!) so I'll stick with my method of fume avoidance.

 

[edwin_m]

Followers of this thread may be interested in this lecture on 8 April at the ICE in London: https://www.ice.org.uk/events/air-quality-in-enclosed-railway-stations

This evening lecture, based on an award-winning paper, will consider the unintended consequences of a reduction of air quality in crowded enclosed railway stations and conclude with a number of possible interventions to ensure that public health is not affected, especially by air pollution from stationary diesel trains.
...
The lecture will also present further research conducted since the paper’s publication from the Air Pollution Monitoring Campaign at Birmingham New Street Station, and the proposed interventions by Network Rail to improve the air quality at the station.

The paper mentioned appears to be the PDF on the page I have linked.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I'll be honest, if there's one of several reasons why the XC HST's are better than Voyagers is that you have 7 coaches with no engines and 1 power car at each end with a 2007/08-built MTU engine. I can imagine how problematic Paxman Valenta engines would've been in Birmingham New Street!

Yesterday on XC's JourneyCheck page yesterday evening, basically the 14:25 from Plymouth to Edinburgh was delayed at Birmingham New Street and was 84 minutes late. If that was a Voyager then I'm hoping the driver wouldn't have left the engine running all that time in an Underground-type station.

If I was a train driver then I'd have probably turned the engine off if I was going to be over 30 minutes say in New Street - an open air station is a different matter. If it was an HST, I'd have probably just left the engine running as it means a walk from one end of the train to the other!

 

[londonmidland]

^It was a HST which eventually left with very few pax on unsurprisingly.

 

[Thunderer]

After reading many comments on this thread complaining about diesel fumes from Voyagers and other DMU's in Today's New Street, all I can say is that is nowhere near as bad as when I spent a Summer Saturday there as a kid spotting in 1984. I remember the "middle lines" between some of the platforms being occupied by class 45, 47 and 50 locomotives, all "ticking over" waiting to pick up their next train. The 50's used to chuck out a fair bit of diesel fumes just idling. There were thick clouds of blue diesel under there, add in the really old DMU's that used to work cross city services (Class 116?) and the occasional valenta HST spewing diesel out as the idled and then accelerated, and New Street was like a diesel "pea souper". I came home that day literally tasting diesel fumes! It is far better today (I was there last year) but I do agree with the many comments that it needs to be improved even further. XC will most likely go for bi-mode trains in the next franchise but the biggest responsibility lies with the DFT. There are wires now to Bromsgrove, so why not wire the 60 odd mile gap to Westerleigh? That means XC bi mode trains could work on electric between Bristol Parkway and New Street. Fill in the gaps between Birmingham/Sheffield/York and XC could operate all the way from Scotland to Bristol in electric mode. There is no common sense or joined up thinking in the DFT.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

There is no common sense or joined up thinking in the DFT.

You just named that tune in 1

 

[Mikey C]

After reading many comments on this thread complaining about diesel fumes from Voyagers and other DMU's in Today's New Street, all I can say is that is nowhere near as bad as when I spent a Summer Saturday there as a kid spotting in 1984. I remember the "middle lines" between some of the platforms being occupied by class 45, 47 and 50 locomotives, all "ticking over" waiting to pick up their next train. The 50's used to chuck out a fair bit of diesel fumes just idling. There were thick clouds of blue diesel under there, add in the really old DMU's that used to work cross city services (Class 116?) and the occasional valenta HST spewing diesel out as the idled and then accelerated, and New Street was like a diesel "pea souper". I came home that day literally tasting diesel fumes! It is far better today (I was there last year) but I do agree with the many comments that it needs to be improved even further. XC will most likely go for bi-mode trains in the next franchise but the biggest responsibility lies with the DFT. There are wires now to Bromsgrove, so why not wire the 60 odd mile gap to Westerleigh? That means XC bi mode trains could work on electric between Bristol Parkway and New Street. Fill in the gaps between Birmingham/Sheffield/York and XC could operate all the way from Scotland to Bristol in electric mode. There is no common sense or joined up thinking in the DFT.

For New St, Bimodes would solve much of air quality problem without any further electrification. The track running through open countryside doesn't need to be electrified (just considering air quality considerations)

 

[class 9]

I'll be honest, if there's one of several reasons why the XC HST's are better than Voyagers is that you have 7 coaches with no engines and 1 power car at each end with a 2007/08-built MTU engine. I can imagine how problematic Paxman Valenta engines would've been in Birmingham New Street!

Yesterday on XC's JourneyCheck page yesterday evening, basically the 14:25 from Plymouth to Edinburgh was delayed at Birmingham New Street and was 84 minutes late. If that was a Voyager then I'm hoping the driver wouldn't have left the engine running all that time in an Underground-type station.

If I was a train driver then I'd have probably turned the engine off if I was going to be over 30 minutes say in New Street - an open air station is a different matter. If it was an HST, I'd have probably just left the engine running as it means a walk from one end of the train to the other!

There was a brake fault on one of the coaches on that train, so during fault finding, the air supply needs to be maintained, also a rotation test was required, so engines had to be kept running.
Most companies have idling policy’s that requires the engines to be shut down if standing for more than 15 mins, if you look when the XC 170s arrive the engines are usually shut down straight away.
I’ll just add that the idling policy isn’t always used during service disruption as trains often lose air quite quickly when shutdown, if the problems are sorted & you get the signal, you could be sat there another 5 or 10 mins whilst air pressure is built up again.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

There was a brake fault on one of the coaches on that train, so during fault finding, the air supply needs to be maintained, also a rotation test was required, so engines had to be kept running.
Most companies have idling policy’s that requires the engines to be shut down if standing for more than 15 mins, if you look when the XC 170s arrive the engines are usually shut down straight away.
I’ll just add that the idling policy isn’t always used during service disruption as trains often lose air quite quickly when shutdown, if the problems are sorted & you get the signal, you could be sat there another 5 or 10 mins whilst air pressure is built up again.

That's true - at least the CrossCountry fleet has modern diesel engines!

 

[Bald Rick]

That's true - at least the CrossCountry fleet has modern diesel engines!

Modern as in only 20 years old!

 

[hwl]

Modern as in only 20 years old!

The QSK 19 engines as fitted actually meet IIIa for PM and UIC2 and very nearly 3a for NOx. A good choice at the time!