Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[childwallblues]

If that is correct it is pushing it even further back is it not i.e. 2024-2029 or not at all.

I've read somewhere today again the suggestion that Northern take on the spare 185s. Looking at all the discussions across multiple threads about these, I think this is now more likely in light of this news regarding the Windermere Branch.

If this was to be delayed, I assume Northern end up with a couple of extra 331s and have suggested before that the Blackpool - Liverpool could be an easy win Northern Connect Service with appropriate rolling stock putting Leyland and St Helens on the Northern Connect network.

Just my thoughts, no insider information

Blackpool North to Liverpool would need four units.

 

[snowball]

Its deja vu, remember everyone complaining about no progress being made on the Liverpool-Wigan line electrification. That in the end only slipped from Dec to March.

However, slippage of even a few months in the present case would be much more embarrassing, because

1) it would come on top of a year's slippage that was only admitted and absorbed into the targets a year ago with the Hendy report, which was supposed to represent the turning over of a new leaf,

2) it would screw up the plans to introduce a new timetable on completion of the Ordsall Chord,

3) NR keep insisting in public that the target will be met (while reportedly telling the DfT in private that it won't).

Fifthed about Philip Phlopp.

 

[J-2739]

I also miss Phil P on this forum.

I sometimes wonder if he left because of me.?

 

[PDG1949]

Fifthed about Philip Phlopp.

Sixthed about Philip Phlopp. :cry:

 

[CAF397]

Noticed yesterday, a decent run of piles in place from Buckshaw to the Flying Arches near Chorley, all on the up side. Unsure if they are dgoing to be a double track canteliever style as no sign of anything on the down side.

 

[SodTheDrummer]

Sixthed about Philip Phlopp. :cry:

Seventh-ed.

His witty but polite put downs of certain folk on the 3rd Rail and Goring Gap threads were superb!

 

[42626]

Nipped down to Clifton to take some record photos prior to electrification and can confirm there is not yet any evidence of any works starting.

It's probably an optical illusion but there doesn't appear to be a great deal of clearance on this photo above carriage height for wires under the bridge. I only noticed this when looking at the photos so need to go back and take a shot with a train actually under the bridge.

 

[AM9]

Seventh-ed.

His witty but polite put downs of certain folk on the 3rd Rail and Goring Gap threads were superb!

PP knew what mattered about OLE. I also wondered about his absence from the forums. I had a few PM exchanges with him on DC electrification and clearance issues where the public forum debate on the subject was getting a bit bogged down.

 

[LDECRexile]

I am delighted that Codville has sent four shots he's taken at Poulton le Fylde.

I've created and album for him here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157676830624615

and added them to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Welcome aboard Codville. Thank you
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Nipped down to Clifton to take some record photos prior to electrification and can confirm there is not yet any evidence of any works starting.

Please may I link this album to the Combined Volume as I have with others of yours?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Noticed yesterday, a decent run of piles in place from Buckshaw to the Flying Arches near Chorley, all on the up side. Unsure if they are dgoing to be a double track canteliever style as no sign of anything on the down side.

Thank you, things had seemed to have gone off the boil.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I am delighted that Codville has sent four shots he's taken at Poulton le Fylde.

Note the bracketed signal protecting the down line. I don't suppose there are very many left on a passenger line apart from the Shrewsbury and Worcester areas. Any offers?

 

[42626]

Please may I link this album to the Combined Volume as I have with others of yours?

Of course

 

[driver_m]

Note the bracketed signal protecting the down line. I don't suppose there are very many left on a passenger line apart from the Shrewsbury and Worcester areas. Any offers?

At the risk of going off topic there's a few along the North Wales coast.

Quite a lot of alterations in the weekly notices have been posted around Ordsall Lane Junction with track and Signalling so you may see some progress around there before too long.

 

[QueensCurve]

Note the bracketed signal protecting the down line. I don't suppose there are very many left on a passenger line apart from the Shrewsbury and Worcester areas. Any offers?

Pardon my ignorance, what is a bracketed signal?

 

[driver_m]

Pardon my ignorance, what is a bracketed signal?

This is an example of one

 

[LDECRexile]

You may have seen that 42626 has kindly given permission to attach his folder of high quality images of Clifton Station (Gtr Manchester) which will no doubt develop as electrification of "our" line progresses.

I have linked his folder to the very first image in the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

To access it:

1. Click on the very first image
2. Look down the list of comments on the left, when you see one headed "Clifton Station (Greater Manchester)", look down that "Comment" and
3. Click on the link shown in Blue lettering

The other links also work. Material is added by contributors when they wish. I recommend you review them periodically, you may get some nice surprises!

Thank you 42626.

NB: My late 1963 ABC Locoshed Book shows 42426 still in service and allocated to 9K Bolton. My treasured 1959 Combined Volume shows 42626 to be a Stanier 2-Cylinder 2-6-4T.

 

[42626]

NB: My late 1963 ABC Locoshed Book shows 42426 still in service and allocated to 9K Bolton. My treasured 1959 Combined Volume shows 42626 to be a Stanier 2-Cylinder 2-6-4T.

42626 hauled the last passenger service from Horwich Station on 25th Sept 1965

 

[Bullfield WEst]

42626 hauled the last passenger service from Horwich Station on 25th Sept 1965

It also was a regular taking us to Wigan Wallgate and the return on Trainspotting Saturday trips from Bolton. On arrival back at Bolton it would reverse around the Triangle (where the new Bus Station is being built), and then run back to Wigan.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

No visible progress, again, in the last couple of weeks.
All the effort seems to be going in to the work at Ordsall Lane, where huge amounts of trackwork lies ready for installation over Christmas.
Big new OHLE gantries are in place on the Castlefield Viaduct where the Chord goes off, angled in from the viaduct extensions and looking rather ungainly.

 

[Viscount702]

I strongly believe Manchester -Preston will not be ready by December 2017. In fact I think they have given up on it. Even NR haven't said anything about it since 31 October.

I was beginning to think that they are now going all out to get Preston Blackpool done by May 2018 instead and guess what they have now tweeted about getting it done by May 2018 but nothing about Manchester Preston

AT least they can start running electric trains From Blackpool to London in May 2018 if they get it done but Manchester well thats any ones guess.

Where does this leave TPE and Northern if Manchester-Preston isn't
done by December 2017 as most of us now suspect.

 

[notlob.divad]

I strongly believe Manchester -Preston will not be ready by December 2017. In fact I think they have given up on it. Even NR haven't said anything about it since 31 October.

I was beginning to think that they are now going all out to get Preston Blackpool done by May 2018 instead and guess what they have now tweeted about getting it done by May 2018 but nothing about Manchester Preston

AT least they can start running electric trains From Blackpool to London in May 2018 if they get it done but Manchester well thats any ones guess.

Where does this leave TPE and Northern if Manchester-Preston isn't
done by December 2017 as most of us now suspect.

If they can get Preston-Blackpool done, that will mean they can return to the through running of Liverpool-Blackpool trains. I don't think it would massively impact TPE. It would probably mean that the Scotland Services would keep running via Chat Moss. So Northern's 'connect' Barrow/Windemere service would run via Bolton. For those reasons, finishing to Blackpool first might be an easier compromise for NR with the operators.

The issue will be the local stopping services and Northern's DMU refurbishment plan. It is clear to me that currently there are not enough units to take some out of service for a rolling refurbishment plan. they are therefore relying on getting some more EMUs/new DMUs in service before they can really start pushing it forward. Therefore any delay in introducing the EMUs will start to further impact their ability to meet the refurbishment deadlines they have been set..

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't know why people would think the Blackpool wiring would overtake Bolton.
Bolton has bases over something like 30% of its length, and a few masts.
Blackpool has nothing yet, and is due major surgery before the wires go live.

 

[snowball]

I strongly believe Manchester -Preston will not be ready by December 2017. In fact I think they have given up on it. Even NR haven't said anything about it since 31 October.

This press release dated 10 Nov claims it will be completed on time.

A letter in the December Modern Railways, from Francis Paonessa, Network Rail's Managing Director, Infrastructure Projects, claims it will be completed on time.

As I've mentioned in another thread, he admits in the same letter that Stalybridge won't be completed by its Hendy target, but ascribes this to an increase in scope.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

42626 hauled the last passenger service from Horwich Station on 25th Sept 1965

It was withdrawn from service the following month, on 23rd October 1965.

It was cut up at Cashmore's on 31st July 1966.

 

[Viscount702]

This press release dated 10 Nov claims it will be completed on time.

A letter in the December Modern Railways, from Francis Paonessa, Network Rail's Managing Director, Infrastructure Projects, claims it will be completed on time.

As I've mentioned in another thread, he admits in the same letter that Stalybridge won't be completed by its Hendy target, but ascribes this to an increase in scope.

I was aware of the press release of 10 November saying it would be completed but the whole press release was a load of waffle prompted I think as a result of the NAO report on GW electrification and the delays to the cascade of Stock and to cover up on the delays to the proposed improvements due to come into effect in December 2017 in consequence.

With the exception of this nothing else has been said about Manchester - Preston since 31 October and I remain to be convinced that it will happen by December 2017.

The comments in your other post I was not aware of but once again re-phasing is just spin for delays. If the Stalybridge delay is in order to carry out further improvements there then all well and good because we know the upgrade a few years ago left a great deal to be desired in that it kept the Guide Bridge route as the main and less speed restricted route when by then the Victoria route was to be the prime route. However if this is the case then why not say so if all are agreed. The fact that nothing definite is being said means to me that it is likely to be spin for delay without just cause.

 

[snowball]

What did they say on 31 Oct?

 

[Viscount702]

What did they say on 31 Oct?

Nothing actually.

On the Northern Programme twitter feed they pushed out again the video on the Manchester Preston upgrade.This is the last time NR have in an way mentioned the electrification between the two being completed by December 2017 apart from the November press release which as I said was nothing more than a load of waffle.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Nothing actually.
On the Northern Programme twitter feed they pushed out again the video on the Manchester Preston upgrade.This is the last time NR have in an way mentioned the electrification between the two being completed by December 2017 apart from the November press release which as I said was nothing more than a load of waffle.

All we have officially are the milestones published in September (but the NW part is dated June), which has Victoria-Preston/Stalybridge as Dec 17 (indicative, ie not committed) and Preston-Blackpool as CP5.
All of them say GRIP 3 was achieved in Feb/March, although that was before the station clearance arguments started.

NR seem less keen to publish milestone updates than they were.
Hardly surprising really.

 

[snowball]

All we have officially are the milestones published in September (but the NW part is dated June), which has Victoria-Preston/Stalybridge as Dec 17 (indicative, ie not committed) and Preston-Blackpool as CP5.

In the table on page 11, Stalybridge GRIP 6 (construction) completion on 10 Dec 2017 is "indicative", but looking one column to the right, Stalybridge EIS (Entry Into Service) on the same date is a "regulated output"!

However the MR letter seems to show that that has gone by the board now!

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Pardon my ignorance, what is a bracketed signal?

Apologies for not spotting this question sooner, and also to provide more detail for those who didn't see the answer in the picture provided by driver_m.

A bracketed signal is a semaphore (normally) signal where a single upright structure supports a "platform" on which are mounted multiple uprights supporting the signal arms themselves. They used to be very common and were provided to confirm over which one of multiple routes ahead an oncoming train has been cleared to run, as opposed to having multiple arms on one (tall) post. More substantial ones often had some sort of stabilising support similar to a guy rope on a tent.

For more details see:

http://www.railsigns.uk/sect6page1/sect6page1.html

(5 pages)

 

[MarkLong]

I think their Northern Programme's Twitter page have a lot of activities, and they tweet 3 days ago that Blackpool to Preston section will finished on May 2018.
https://twitter.com/NetworkRailNP