Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[Philip Phlopp]

Cable route I believe.

And access for permanent way teams, allowing them to avoid the restricted clearance new tunnel, IIRC.

 

[furnessvale]

And access for permanent way teams, allowing them to avoid the restricted clearance new tunnel, IIRC.

Makes sense. The days of entering a smoke filled tunnel where you had a job to see a tilly lamp at your own feet for the fog are long gone!

 

[deltic08]

Anyone know what the Network Rail train with a DRS 37 on doing at Blackpool North, it's been in Platform 1 since yesterday afternoon and was still there at 8am?

A Class 37 passed through platforms 13 I think at Manchester Piccadilly last Friday night at around 22.40. I heard it but by the time I had reached platform level it was gone.

 

[ironstone11]

Further to recent debate about what the tracks will stand on in the new tunnel, Wrinkley, Paul and I attended a superb Network Rail presentation this morning where the engineer said it will be concrete slab with ballast on top.

Work is in progress pouring the concrete.

Looking at pictures 5378m and 5378k taken on 16th November, I don't see any evidence of the tunnel invert being concreted. This task must be running later than expected.

 

[snowball]

My very first job as a junior draughtsman was designing handrails for a bridge between Bolton and Lostock Jcn. I suppose they have now gone with all the rebuilding.

Can you remember which bridge it was? There are probably pictures of it in LDECR's album.

Does anyone know what the plan is (if there is one at all) for the tunnel currently in use?

Also Joseph Locke has suggested bats may be encouraged to roost there.

 

[furnessvale]

Can you remember which bridge it was? There are probably pictures of it in LDECR's album.

Can't remember the bridge number or name but I do know it was one of several very similar over bridges approaching Lostock Jcn from Bolton. It had a set of stone steps on what is best described as the south west corner leading down to a public footpath below. The handrail was formed from tubes set in concrete cappings to the edge of the steps.

I'll have a look through the albums. Thanks.

 

[LDECRexile]

Can't remember the bridge number or name but I do know it was one of several very similar over bridges approaching Lostock Jcn from Bolton. It had a set of stone steps on what is best described as the south west corner leading down to a public footpath below. The handrail was formed from tubes set in concrete cappings to the edge of the steps.

I'll have a look through the albums. Thanks.

Do any of 3544r, 3548e, 4086v or 4472k ring any bells?

Your text description fits both Ladybridge and Dean Clough bridge

 

[furnessvale]

Do any of 3544r, 3548e, 4086v or 4472k ring any bells?

Your text description fits both Ladybridge and Dean Clough bridge

Steady on! I don't recognise those numbers, remember I am talking 1964!

I had a look at Google maps and you are correct it was one of those two. I remember passing years ago on a train and noting the similarity but only one had my handrails.

I can see I am going to have to have a train ride to satisfy my curiosity!

Thanks.

 

[snowball]

Steady on! I don't recognise those numbers, remember I am talking 1964!

I had a look at Google maps and you are correct it was one of those two. I remember passing years ago on a train and noting the similarity but only one had my handrails.

I can see I am going to have to have a train ride to satisfy my curiosity!

Thanks.

Those numbers are the numbers of photographs in LDECR's album.

 

[furnessvale]

Those numbers are the numbers of photographs in LDECR's album.

Whoops!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do any of 3544r, 3548e, 4086v or 4472k ring any bells?

Your text description fits both Ladybridge and Dean Clough bridge

Thanks very much for your detective work. 3544r is a perfect picture of MY handrails!

I wonder if they will survive the finished job? They have managed 52 years so far!

 

[edwin_m]

Anyone know what the Network Rail train with a DRS 37 on doing at Blackpool North, it's been in Platform 1 since yesterday afternoon and was still there at 8am?

Same one as was sitting in the loops west of P4 at Stockport about 1330 with one coach detached?

 

[snowball]

A search of the album shows that there are dozens of pictures of Dean Clough Bridge, with numbers beginning with

3544, 3646, 4072, 4082, 4086, 4094, 4134, 4202, 4222, 4270, 4346, 4420, 4452, 4468, 4540, 4568, 4628, 4846 or 4904

followed by various letters.

The most recent are 4904i, 4904k, 4904m on page 8.

 

[LDECRexile]

I wonder if they will survive the finished job? They have managed 52 years so far!

I reckon 4846c and d, 4628p, 4568i and h all show that your work has been respected and kept alive. No Blue Plaque yet, though.*

It would be a delightful coup to do a 'then and now' of you and the railings with an electric in the background. Interested?

At risk of straying off topic, I know, but I read recently that the physicist Heisenberg's house in Germany bears a Blue Plaque inscribed "Heisenberg might have lived here"

 

[furnessvale]

It would be a delightful coup to do a 'then and now' of you and the railings with an electric in the background. Interested?

It is an interesting idea but seriously, neither the railings nor me are of sufficient historical interest to merit such attention.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Looks like about May 2018 now for Preston - Blackpool.

http://www.cnplus.co.uk/clients/net...-put-back-a-year/8691473.article#.Vk0PWk3bKzl

 

[Whistler40145]

Well, it will be 2018 if there's a contractor in place to takeover from Balfour Beatty!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Well, it will be 2018 if there's a contractor in place to takeover from Balfour Beatty!

Agreed - though highly likely Carrillion not sure the paper work is signed off on yet.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Agreed - though highly likely Carrillion not sure the paper work is signed off on yet.

They're finishing off design work before signing, as that was another mess left behind by Balfour Beatty - they were going to stay as design contractor after walking from the works side, then decided they wouldn't a little later on.

 

[snowball]

Bolton News item on Farnworth tunnel:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news...in_a_lifetime_job_quot__at_Farnworth_Tunnels/

Several pictures of the tunnel but still none showing any filling in of the bottom. What's keeping them?

 

[furnessvale]

Bolton News item on Farnworth tunnel:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news...in_a_lifetime_job_quot__at_Farnworth_Tunnels/

Several pictures of the tunnel but still none showing any filling in of the bottom. What's keeping them?

When were the photos taken. Newspapers have a habit of using stories when they have a gap to fill.

 

[snowball]

When were the photos taken. Newspapers have a habit of using stories when they have a gap to fill.

The reporter was shown round the site so they aren't just using library photographs.

We also have LDECR's 5378k-m taken on Monday.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Fillie's breakthrough seen from the inside at the very beginning of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE7NHT4vxN4&feature=youtu.be

 

[cl19]

Just bringing this thread back on the radar!

A number of engineers trains have appeared in the schedule this week from Basford Hall to Burnden Junction. Ballast for the tunnel maybe??

Chris

 

[Joseph_Locke]

They appear to be ballasting the invert rather than concreting it, but I'd say they're about 50% done doing it.

 

[cl19]

Thanks for the info. There are also two long welded rail trains per week up to Christmas. A considerable amount of rail has now been dropped - in anticipation of numerous weekend closures I presume

 

[LDECRexile]

They appear to be ballasting the invert rather than concreting it, but I'd say they're about 50% done doing it.

Yes, that's what I found when I visited today.

I met yet another affable Orangeman, he was working on ballasting operations and said there was no concrete slab, "just the tunnel."

Photos later.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
First batch of photos and films as below.

I would particularly like to welcome and thank "Tom", a dumper driving Orangeman who was not only a very friendly and civil ambassador for the enterprise, but who readily agreed to take photos from within the tunnel worksite.

I've created an album for Tom's shots here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661678144855

and wanged them and my own into the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

Orlando St bridge photos to follow.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Last lot wanged on now:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

 

[snowball]

Many thanks to you and Tom.

As you remark in one of the captions, the material used to fill the base of the tunnel is finer than normal ballast. It probably falls in one of these categories:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...sg=AFQjCNF7Fmsh5PUxZxoKBNE4GY89-rLBig&cad=rja

(This is from a US source which came near the top of my Google search. Maybe Britain has slightly different definitions.)

No doubt there will be a layer of ordinary ballast on top.

 

[deltic08]

They appear to be ballasting the invert rather than concreting it, but I'd say they're about 50% done doing it.

If concrete is not being used in the invert to lift the level then surely being so low it is going to become a sump with ballast being in as much as three or four feet of stagnant water throughout the length of the tunnel.

All trains without toilet retention tanks will require new signs to say 'Do not flush the WC in stations and Farnworth tunnel to stop it from becoming an open sewer'!!

However could the thin layer of ballast shown in the photos still be concreted over to reduce the amount of concrete used?

 

[LDECRexile]

Many thanks to you and Tom.

As you remark in one of the captions, the material used to fill the base of the tunnel is finer than normal ballast. It probably falls in one of these categories:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...sg=AFQjCNF7Fmsh5PUxZxoKBNE4GY89-rLBig&cad=rja

(This is from a US source which came near the top of my Google search. Maybe Britain has slightly different definitions.)

No doubt there will be a layer of ordinary ballast on top.

I'm not in the slightest bit defensive when I point out that I didn't actually say the much finer material was being used to fill the tunnel base (caption to Photo 5422k.) I didn't and still don't know what the fine grain heap is for.

Looking at the shots which show the ballast in the tunnel and its ends I'd say the tunnel material we can see is normal size, but a rather redder colour than what I'm used to and much redder than the fine grain heap. That could just be the light, of course.

Your theory and excellent research about the fine stuff being used as an "undercoat" is entirely plausible and could be the case, with redder stuff having already been put on top.

Someone else has mentioned a sump. In my amateur way I wondered the same thing: scope for someone to ask an Orangeman.

Concrete on top is also plausible, same course of action.....

Thank you for your customary keen interest and for going the extra mile.

Dave

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looking at the shots which show the ballast in the tunnel and its ends I'd say the tunnel material we can see is normal size, but a rather redder colour than what I'm used to

Red ballast is a speciality of the WCML north of the border.
It's weathered now but when laid the red ballast was very distinctive (and attractive).
It was a feature of the Scottish granite quarry used by BR I believe.

 

[ironstone11]

Many thanks to you and Tom.

As you remark in one of the captions, the material used to fill the base of the tunnel is finer than normal ballast. It probably falls in one of these categories:

(This is from a US source which came near the top of my Google search. Maybe Britain has slightly different definitions.)

No doubt there will be a layer of ordinary ballast on top.

The fill material is probably so called Type 1 or Type 2 aggregate as described here. Although defined for road use, no doubt similar specifications apply to rail.

Natural aggregates

The Department of Transport 'Specification of Highway Works' (SHW) defines a number of well graded aggregates based on the composition of particle sizes contained in the commercially produced mixture. Clause 803 defines ‘Department of Transport (DTp) Type 1 granular sub base’ and Clause 804 describes ‘DTp Type 2 granular sub base’. These aggregates are more commonly referred to as 'Type 1' and 'Type 2'.

Type 1

This is the most common well graded granular sub base material used to construct a path's base layer. It is a well tried and tested component of lowland paths that has been used for many years as the default base layer material. Commercial quarries supply DTp Type 1 granular sub base consisting of crushed rock graded to a specification that has a defined proportion of stone particle sizes. Well graded Type 1 contains a good mix of angular aggregate sized between 63mm and 'fines' (sand sized particles), however, most of the aggregate content is less than 32mm in size - the European Norm standard for Type 1 is 0/32. The solid stone particles should not exceed 63mm in size and less than 9% of fines. This ensures the material has an acceptable level of natural interlock between the angular aggregate particles and no voids once compacted. Type 1 is subject to regional variations based on geology - most quarries in central, west and south Scotland produce it from grey whinstone, a few quarries in eastern Scotland produce it from reddish whinstone, and further north it is produced from granite.

Type 2

Like Type 1, this is crushed rock less than 32mm in size with less than 9% 'fines' but with no specified grading. It usually contains finer material than Type 1, being composed of fewer angular aggregate sizes. Type 2 is not as strong as Type 1, so for that reason, it is not generally used on its own to build a base layer. It would usually be used to form the lower part of a base layer with Type 1 laid on top.

Source Base layer materials

As stated above, it is usually comes from any source of granite and is pink in colour before it weathers to grey.

As stated by Snowball, the normal track ballast is then laid on top.