Blockade to allow Waterloo upgrade to take place, resulting in timetable changes

[hwl]

All true in an ideal world ... until a bean counter comes along wanting to life extend the assets to save money. Then it's the lesser used crossings which get postponed ... and then the preventative maintenance periods get extended to save more money.

But surely some of the point work between the mainline fasts and P7-19 will get replaced at some point to enable more effective use of the higher number platforms in that range when the Windsor permanently transfer to P20+ (or 19+), hence they may well be down for replacement in a few years just not before the Windsors move over...

 

[Searle]

There are delays into Waterloo because of overrunning engineering works... Between Clapham Junction and Waterloo???

This is the 6th incident before 8am on the third day, it's stopped being funny and it's just irritating now. Meanwhile we're never able to get any compensation because SWT only offers it over 60 minutes.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

There are delays into Waterloo because of overrunning engineering works... Between Clapham Junction and Waterloo???

This is the 6th incident before 8am on the third day, it's stopped being funny and it's just irritating now. Meanwhile we're never able to get any compensation because SWT only offers it over 60 minutes.

Would them works have been related to the Waterloo works at all?

 

[hwl]

Would them works have been related to the Waterloo works at all?

No, regular overnight local maintenance that over ran, the issue is that the impact of anything going wrong is far higher for these 3 weeks.

 

[infobleep]

No, regular overnight local maintenance that over ran, the issue is that the impact of anything going wrong is far higher for these 3 weeks.

To be fair to passengers, the possibly of a greater impact wasn't commuted in advance, as far as I'm aware. It was all about less trains; services being busy and having to queue.

All very important things but in hindsight, which is a wonderful thing I know, it may have been worth adding recovery from incidents into that list because so far that seems to have had a greatest impact to the travelling public. That's just from my prospective of travelling.

The works are needed though so if there has to be great disruption then so be it. No gain without pain as they say.

 

[hwl]

To be fair to passengers, the possibly of a greater impact wasn't commuted in advance, as far as I'm aware. It was all about less trains; services being busy and having to queue.

All very important things but in hindsight, which is a wonderful thing I know, it may have been worth adding recovery from incidents into that list because so far that seems to have had a greatest impact to the travelling public. That's just from my prospective of travelling.

The works are needed though so if there has to be great disruption then so be it. No gain without pain as they say.

Hindsight - or presight? See London Bridge rebuild that got plenty of air time in the Standard (which a fair number of Waterloo users read) for coverage of increased impact during a rebuild with reduced platforms and tracks.
Going back a fair few pages on this thread it wasn't news that one sneeze would cause the entire SWML service to fall apart when P10 and the UMF closure near by was confirmed.

Agree that the comms on the rebuild have been patchy - good on awareness but poor on detailed info especially where things are different to normal e.g. last minute announcement of platform numbers on SWML services, what the revised pedestrian routings are (contrast with Glasgow Queens Street video of new walking routes/entrances).

The passengers are still in the discovery stage of learning how to adapt.

 

[bb21]

Let me give you three words: shambles, shambles, shambles.

 

[Dolive22]

No, regular overnight local maintenance that over ran, the issue is that the impact of anything going wrong is far higher for these 3 weeks.

Is it possible to arrange those kinds of works to put the most high risk (of over running) work outside these three weeks? Or reduce the overall volume in this period?

 

[Feathers44]

Is it possible to arrange those kinds of works to put the most high risk (of over running) work outside these three weeks? Or reduce the overall volume in this period?

Your question presupposed that they haven't done that already...

 

[Searle]

To be fair to passengers, the possibly of a greater impact wasn't commuted in advance, as far as I'm aware. It was all about less trains; services being busy and having to queue.

All very important things but in hindsight, which is a wonderful thing I know, it may have been worth adding recovery from incidents into that list because so far that seems to have had a greatest impact to the travelling public. That's just from my prospective of travelling.

The works are needed though so if there has to be great disruption then so be it. No gain without pain as they say.

It's funny, because I haven't had to queue once, and services have been quiet. But everyone single one has been late.

There's now another list of 3(!) things that have gone wrong in the day, bringing the total up to 9 in 3 days.

A points failure between Surbiton and Esher
An operational incident at Vauxhall
Signalling problem affecting platforms 11, 12 and 13

Never seen anything so shambolic

 

[Dolive22]

Your question presupposed that they haven't done that already...

I assume that's a yes?

 

[SamYeager]

I'll be interested to see how bad congestion gets in a week or two when the majority of people will have used up their summer holiday time.

 

[infobleep]

I'll be interested to see how bad congestion gets in a week or two when the majority of people will have used up their summer holiday time.

Maybe some will start their summer holidays next week. Of course they didn't state that they'd like you to try and spread your summer holidays out over the three weeks. I guess asking for people to take leave then was enought to get some backs up, let alone asking them to spread it out amongst themselves.

 

[infobleep]

Tonight I got to Clapham Junction at 17.26 on platform 10, which was a minute early and then preceeded won the stairs. There was no sign to say don't go to the subway. There was someone standing by the stairs but they didn't say an anything.

The subway itself wasn't so busy but it's Clapham Junction so there were some passengers of course.

I then found that on every set of stairs up was the sign, no entry. I spoke with two member of staff in the light blue uniforms, as the bottom of one of the stairs to one set of platforms and they said I could go up. I asked them where the sign not to go down was and they said it was upstairs. I apologised and said I must have missed it. It was very nice of them to let me up I thought so I thanked them.

At the top of the stairs, on the platforms, there was no signs at all. So I in my Infinite wisdom, decided to be helpful and let them know.

There was a lot of community support officer with them. When I went to explain the situation they didn't want to know. The community support officer just kept asking me to go up because I was blocking the stairs. He repeated that a few times.

When I asked who to speak to he said the station manager. So I asked him where he was based. He said I'd have to ask upstairs.

So upstairs I went to a small office and explained that a community support officer had told me I need to speak with the station manager.

He then asked me what it was about and I explained. He said he'd pass it on. I felt that he might have found the situation an odd one. By now I was wound up of course.

What do other staff working at stations or on trains, and reading this, think?

Hopefully he will pass it on. I could publicly tweet but I was fairly happy just tell staff there and let them pass it on. The tweeter staff are surely busy as it is.

Herea some photo to prove no such signs on this platform island at least.

There were also no signs on the footbridge but that's wider so I guess passengers can go up and down freely. I'd have been even more annoyed had I not been allowed up. At least they let me up. However there really needs to be signage. I suspect nothing will be done.

At Surbtion the other day, passengers were going up the side marked no exit and staff didn't stop them. I then thought a train was on time, so had to make my way through some of them. Train was late so it didn't matter.

 

[swt_passenger]

Tonight I got to Clapham Junction at 17.26 on platform 10, which was a minute early and then preceeded won the stairs. There was no sign to say don't go to the subway.

I then found that on every set of stairs up was the sign, no entry. I spoke with two member of staff in the light blue uniforms, as the bottom of one of the stairs to one set of platforms and they said I could go up. I asked them where the sign not to go down was and they said it was upstairs.

You seem to be explaining above that the subway is operating as 'exit only' - it would be odd to have signs saying 'not to go down' as well, if that is so...

You surely want a sign at platform level that says 'exit station only - no interchange'; unless I haven't understood what you are trying to describe...

 

[Darren R]

[...] Meanwhile we're never able to get any compensation because SWT only offers it over 60 minutes.

The compensation you'll be getting is longer and more frequent trains. Or would you rather that these improvements did not occur and instead the current train length and service frequency continued forever?

 

[GW43125]

This afternoon after my journey back from Edinburgh, I managed to get on an 8/455 to Windsor from the old Int'l side. I was pleasantly surprised that it was fairly quiet, there were about a dozen people standing by each door. What annoys me is that on the international side, they don't remove the train from the screen before it goes, it doesn't disappear until after the berth step, so upon seeing the reading still advertised a couple of minutes after booked departure, a quick march followed to see the hazards out and it pull out with it still shown on the board. I wonder if that'll get fixed. Answers on a postcard to "not a bloody chance mate"

 

[infobleep]

You seem to be explaining above that the subway is operating as 'exit only' - it would be odd to have signs saying 'not to go down' as well, if that is so...

You surely want a sign at platform level that says 'exit station only - no interchange'; unless I haven't understood what you are trying to describe...

Indeed that is what I meant. I phrased it badly. I realised that afterwards. Of course if I was actually doing such a sign in real life, I'd do a draft and get others to check it.

After all it's fairly public so it needs to be right.

 

[Sean Emmett]

06.42 RDG - WAT diverted via Weybridge due to blockage.

 

[Goldfish62]

06.40 RDG - WAT diverted via Weybridge due to blockage.

Swan on the line at Egham.

 

[Malcolmffc]

The compensation you'll be getting is longer and more frequent trains. Or would you rather that these improvements did not occur and instead the current train length and service frequency continued forever?

Wasn't aware longer trains will prevent points failures.

 

[pompeyfan]

it doesn't disappear until after the berth step, so upon seeing the reading still advertised a couple of minutes after booked departure, a quick march followed to see the hazards out and it pull out with it still shown on the board. I wonder if that'll get fixed. Answers on a postcard to "not a bloody chance mate"

That's the same across Waterloo, very rarely will a train be removed from the board until the track circuit is triggered.

 

[infobleep]

I was passing through Clapham Junction today. There are not any signs at the bottom of the subway for platforms 11 and 12 so maybe because they have double stairs, one is allowed up.

There was no entry signs for platforms 9 and 10 and possible 13 and 14 too. However I didn't see any staff manning them to stop people going up.

I couldn't look further as I had a train to catch.

So it seems they are manning the subway more in the afternoon. Maybe changing trains or leaving Clapham Junction then is more frequent than at 8.20 in the morning.

 

[infobleep]

I noticed a train left Wimbledon early today. 2 minutes early today. The automatic system was still announcing it, as it pulled out. The next train wasn't for another 11 minutes. PAt least two trains left early yesterday at Clapham Junction.

Are staff being told they can leave early. If they can leave early, is it just at certain stations where a large pathing and dwell time has been built in to help with disruption?

For example the 16.33 Woking to Waterloo stopper left Clapham Junction 8 minutes early yesterday. It still got to Waterloo 10 minutes late though.

I can see why they might want trains to leave early but I don't remember it being communicated anywhere. Maybe such things are not needed. Still I found it interesting.

 

[pompeyfan]

Clapham on the up is one of those train crew can use their discretion on, especially if they're in the up loop.

 

[TEW]

Clapham on the up is one of those train crew can use their discretion on, especially if they're in the up loop.

It's not even discretion at the moment, train crew have been instructed that they must leave as soon as ready at stations between Raynes Park and Vauxhall in the up direction all day for the duration of the blockade. Because trains have been booked long dwells at some stations this can lead to trains leaving Clapham Junction up to 10 minutes early, only to then sit at a red signal between Clapham and Waterloo.

 

[Harbouring]

It's not even discretion at the moment, train crew have been instructed that they must leave as soon as ready at stations between Raynes Park and Vauxhall in the up direction all day for the duration of the blockade. Because trains have been booked long dwells at some stations this can lead to trains leaving Clapham Junction up to 10 minutes early, only to then sit at a red signal between Clapham and Waterloo.

Just traveled between Portsmouth and Waterloo arriving 4 minutes early, the train arrived at Clapham 7 minutes early and waited until the 1100 departure time. I guess it might not have had the signal but there were no signal checks into Waterloo. Pretty calm and quiet at Clapham Junction and Waterloo but I wouldn't want to be there in a peak.

 

[bb21]

Just traveled between Portsmouth and Waterloo arriving 4 minutes early, the train arrived at Clapham 7 minutes early and waited until the 1100 departure time. I guess it might not have had the signal but there were no signal checks into Waterloo. Pretty calm and quiet at Clapham Junction and Waterloo but I wouldn't want to be there in a peak.

TEW was describing the arrangements currently in place with suburban services on the UMS.

Mainline services are not affected.

 

[infobleep]

It's not even discretion at the moment, train crew have been instructed that they must leave as soon as ready at stations between Raynes Park and Vauxhall in the up direction all day for the duration of the blockade. Because trains have been booked long dwells at some stations this can lead to trains leaving Clapham Junction up to 10 minutes early, only to then sit at a red signal between Clapham and Waterloo.

So is it the case for the DMS or did the guard accidentally leave early today at Wimbledon? There is a lot going on and a lot to remember so it would be understandable if they did. Everyone is human. I'm just interested.

 

[TEW]

TEW was describing the arrangements currently in place with suburban services on the UMS.

Mainline services are not affected.

Mainline services should be leaving Clapham Junction early too in the up direction. At one point the instruction applied especially to trains at Platform 7.

So is it the case for the DMS or did the guard accidentally leave early today at Wimbledon? There is a lot going on and a lot to remember so it would be understandable if they did. Everyone is human. I'm just interested.

Down trains shouldn't be leaving early anywhere. As you say, it's an easy mistake to make at the moment. Trains in the down direction generally have a few minutes booked to wait at Wimbledon, which you would not have in the normal timetable.