Blockade to allow Waterloo upgrade to take place, resulting in timetable changes

[ijmad]

I think its comparable with a number of other platforms in the station, e.g. P7-8, P9-10. I think I'd wait until we see where the front end of the train ends up. Before they altered the webcams I think the signal gantry position was visible in one shot, and it wasn't right at the end of the platforms, and the first doors will then be a little further back than that as well?

Yeah maybe. I guess the narrowest part may only be needed to access the driver's cab door, not the first passenger door.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yeah maybe. I guess the narrowest part may only be needed to access the driver's cab door, not the first passenger door.

The "camera 14" view shows what looks like a bagged up signal telephone, I suspect that will probably be about where the cab door will be. (At least that would be the ideal position to mount it.)

I also think it's possible the temporary fencing makes the usable width seem smaller than it really is in these webcam images.

 

[Malcolmffc]

Looks like 3&4 are being tarmacced.

 

[swt_passenger]

Looks like 3&4 are being tarmacced.

It looks like most of them are working on P1 and 2 in your pic. But the speed this happens I expect they'll now make pretty rapid progress on all four altered platform surfaces across P1-P8...

 

[Malcolmffc]

It looks like most of them are working on P1 and 2 in your pic. But the speed this happens I expect they'll now make pretty rapid progress on all four altered platform surfaces across P1-P8...

Yes, you are right. Looks like most of the actual construction/engineering work will be finished by the weekend - I'm guessing the final week will be for testing the new points and signalling, etc?

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, you are right. Looks like most of the actual construction/engineering work will be finished by the weekend - I'm guessing the final week will be for testing the new points and signalling, etc?

You would expect so, regarding the civils and other visible work, wouldn't you.

I think the big unknown is what (if any) delays will have been caused by the midweek incidents. We, of course, will not know for quite a while if the root cause was something to do with the project. It could also have been a random event...

 

[ijmad]

Sorry if this question has been answered before, but:

Does the completion of these works mean all Waterloo's platforms will now take at least 10 carriages, or are there others that are still short?

Are any of the platforms on the domestic side capable of 12 car operation?

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry if this question has been answered before, but:

Does the completion of these works mean all Waterloo's platforms will now take at least 10 carriages, or are there others that are still short?

Are any of the platforms on the domestic side capable of 12 car operation?

The biggest group by far, P8-16 have been 12 car capable for years, that's the area of the station used mainly by longer distance mainline side trains which have been 12 x 20m (or 10 x 23m) for ages.

Comparing with the last Quail, in terms of 20m vehicles
P1-4 were 8 car - now 10 car.
P5 was 10 car
P6/7 were 11 car - but I think P6 will now only be 10 car as mentioned earlier in this thread.
P8-16 are already 12 car as mentioned.
P17 is 8 car - not sure about this because I've also heard that it can take 9 car DMUs, which should allow 10 x 20m vehicles, oh and HSTs. So that just shows Quail is not that accurate...
P18 is 12 car
P19 is 8 car
P20-24 all 12 car - reduced from when Eurostars ran.

Corrections welcome.

 

[ijmad]

The biggest group by far, P8-16 have been 12 car capable for years, that's the area of the station used mainly by longer distance mainline side trains which have been 12 x 20m (or 10 x 23m) for ages.

Thanks, really interesting. It's been a long while since I regularly travelled on SWT services and while I was aware of the 10 car 458s, most of my journeys when I was living on the main line were in 8 car 450s or 455s

 

[Juniper Driver]

The biggest group by far, P8-16 have been 12 car capable for years, that's the area of the station used mainly by longer distance mainline side trains which have been 12 x 20m (or 10 x 23m) for ages.

Comparing with the last Quail, in terms of 20m vehicles
P1-4 were 8 car - now 10 car.
P5 was 10 car
P6/7 were 11 car - but I think P6 will now only be 10 car as mentioned earlier in this thread.
P8-16 are already 12 car as mentioned.
P17 is 8 car - not sure about this because I've also heard that it can take 9 car DMUs, which should allow 10 x 20m vehicles...
P18 is 12 car
P19 is 8 car
P20-24 all 12 car - reduced from when Eurostars ran.

Corrections welcome.

5 was 10 car 456 with 455 I guess.Or 10 458/5.Not 158/159 (only 8) or 444 (only 5).
6 was listed as taking 9 158/159 or 5 444
7 Takes (or did) 10 444 or 158/159
17 Takes 10 444/12 450
19 Takes 10 444/12 450 Not permitted 158/159

AFAIK

Looking forward to HD correcting me because he knows a lot.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks, really interesting. It's been a long while since I regularly travelled on SWT services and while I was aware of the 10 car 458s, most of my journeys when I was living on the main line were in 8 car 450s or 455s

In fact it looks like P19 is probably the only real oddball now. It is much longer than declared, but obviously very narrow as it runs alongside the international station. I do wonder if it is possible to alter it to make it more useful in future, because there is a part of it which widens out and is used as a location for various containerised equipment - probably signalling or power stuff.

I suppose after Dec 2018 it might not be that difficult to do some more minor alterations...

 

[swt_passenger]

5 was 10 car 456 with 455 I guess.Or 10 458/5.Not 159 or 444.
6 was listed as taking 9 158/159 or 5 444
7 Takes (or did) 10 444 or 158/159
17 Takes 10 444/12 450
19 Takes 10 444/12 450 Not permitted 158/159

AFAIK

Ok thanks. Looks as if Quail is well out of date for both P17 and P19 then.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Ok thanks. Looks as if Quail is well out of date for both P17 and P19 then.

I think you were right about 17 in the days of the pigs.Or perhaps a bit later.

 

[GW43125]

In fact it looks like P19 is probably the only real oddball now. It is much longer than declared, but obviously very narrow as it runs alongside the international station. I do wonder if it is possible to alter it to make it more useful in future, because there is a part of it which widens out and is used as a location for various containerised equipment - probably signalling or power stuff.

I suppose after Dec 2018 it might not be that difficult to do some more minor alterations...

P19 is the platform of choice for charters as if you arrive off the Windsor Reversible you can overhang it without blocking much. The issue with using more of P19 is the signal.

 

[Juniper Driver]

P19 is the platform of choice for charters as if you arrive off the Windsor Reversible you can overhang it without blocking much. The issue with using more of P19 is the signal.

Not sure the signal is.There are worse platforms at Waterloo for the signal where it is very tight.Or it can be depending on the formation.Platform 15 springs to mind for some reason.Also the signal with the CA.(plat 11)

Paging HD.

 

[GW43125]

Not sure the signal is.There are worse platforms at Waterloo for the signal where it is very tight.Or it can be depending on the formation.Platform 15 springs to mind for some reason.Also the signal with the CA.(plat 11)

Paging HD.

I was thinking more in the sense that a (say) 2+12 formation arrives, it's overhanging the signal I *THINK*

 

[Juniper Driver]

I was thinking more in the sense that a (say) 2+12 formation arrives, it's overhanging the signal I *THINK*

Not sure what you mean by 2+12 unless you mean 14 coaches or 12 coaches and two locos.My little booklet says it can take 12 x 450.

Cheers.

 

[rj90]

To answer the question about progress - track top stoning is now almost complete, this weekend is for the installation of a crossover between Westminster bridge road overbridge and the substation, as well as the turnout to the sidings. Monday and Tuesday are tamping and the remaining 6 days is wheels free testing

 

[GW43125]

Not sure what you mean by 2+12 unless you mean 14 coaches or 12 coaches and two locos.My little booklet says it can take 12 x 450.

Cheers.

by 2+12 I did indeed mean 2 locos + 12

 

[LU_timetabler]

Timetable is mainly out and very interesting - diverting some mainline trains via Wimbledon Park/Wandsworth Town. I'm sure TFL are very worried about that!

Not at all, SWT's timetablers were very accomodating into fitting around our Underground trains.

 

[Sean Emmett]

P19 is the platform of choice for charters as if you arrive off the Windsor Reversible you can overhang it without blocking much. The issue with using more of P19 is the signal.

IIRC P19 was an emergency option to detrain a full Eurostar in the event the International station was blocked for any reason. Wasn't there also a back-up at Kenny O?

There appear to be effectively two starting signals, one 12 cars out and another 20 cars out.

I was on a trip couple of years ago with 'Braunton' with load 10 which came back up the Portsmouth direct then crossed to the Windsor lines at West London Jn to terminate in Plat 19. I overheard signalman telling driver he had 'stopped short' as when diesel loco came in to tow the consist out it hadn't cleared the starting signal closest to buffers. Steam driver offered to pull forward, but was advised not necessary, just be aware.

Have departed from P19 behind 70000 Britannia with load 12 plus a 67 on the back, so effectively 14 vehicles, which was routed direct to the down fast, rather than crossing over at West London Jn.

Need to check the connections at International Jn - when the upgrade works are complete will a railtour departing from P19 take out only 3 of the running lines (down fast, up fast and up fast relief), rather than the 6 that Britannia's move did?

 

[swt_passenger]

Not at all, SWT's timetablers were very accomodating into fitting around our Underground trains.

To be fair that's a two month old question that has been answered a couple of times since though. I'd pointed out way back that the increased number of services via East Putney was relatively low, its only about a dozen more than any normal day, and spread over about 18 hours.

I think some posters were unnecessarily worried that a significant number of trains were going to run that way before they'd ever seen the actual timetable.

 

[swt_passenger]

Need to check the connections at International Jn - when the upgrade works are complete will a railtour departing from P19 take out only 3 of the running lines (down fast, up fast and up fast relief), rather than the 6 that Britannia's move did?

I think it's been said somewhere there are no changes to the track layout from P8 upwards. Whatever a P19 to down main fast (DMF) move had to do before, it will still do. The 3 Windsor lines (down, up and reversible) still run into the main station after all is done.

 

[Sean Emmett]

I think it's been said somewhere there are no changes to the track layout from P8 upwards. Whatever a P19 to down main fast (DMF) move had to do before, it will still do. The 3 Windsor lines (down, up and reversible) still run into the main station after all is done.

Yes of course they will from Sep 2017, but only for 15 months.

By "when the upgrade works are complete" I meant Dec 2018 when the whole upgrade programme is complete and Windsor lines services will be using the former international platforms on a permanent basis.

In the meantime I would be grateful if someone could clarify whether its possible to get from P19 to the Down Fast without impacting anything going into (or out of) P20-24?

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes of course they will from Sep 2017, but only for 15 months.

By "when the upgrade works are complete" I meant Dec 2018 when the whole upgrade programme is complete and Windsor lines services will be using the former international platforms on a permanent basis.

In the meantime I would be grateful if someone could clarify whether its possible to get from P19 to the Down Fast without impacting anything going to P20-24?

I thought the Windsor side trains will still be using a couple of platforms in the main shed. I too would be interested to hear if there are any further changes to the track layout on that side, but nothing's been mentioned before has it?

The NR enhancement description only mentions the areas currently under way.

At the moment P20-24 to Down Windsor Slow seems impossible until after Vauxhall? That seems to be an important feature that isn't available?

 

[GW43125]

In the meantime I would be grateful if someone could clarify whether its possible to get from P19 to the Down Fast without impacting anything going into (or out of) P20-24?

Yes. The long ladder at International junction is before the entrance to/exit from the international station, so these two moves can be done in parallel.

 

[Juniper Driver]

by 2+12 I did indeed mean 2 locos + 12

Ah got you.Guessed almost as much,

Not sure really but if it's permitted it's permitted.

 

[GW43125]

Ah got you.Guessed almost as much,

Not sure really but if it's permitted it's permitted.

I've been in in charters and I'm sure we overhung the starter with 2+14

 

[trainmania100]

Will 456s be going to Waterloo I ternational today does anyone know?

 

[bb21]

One, 2332 Dorking, off Platform 20, inbound 2201 ex-Guildford.