BML closed between Gatwick Airport and East Croydon (various routes) on 12 January

[Somewhere]

My post wasn’t clear but I was trying to contrast the responses to Southern going out of their way to keep things running, compared to the disruption the other week where every other post in a thread was “why didn’t they do this? It would’ve been better” or “they could’ve done that”

Your post was clear, and I explained that there are the resources to plan things in advance, but there aren't the resources to plan things with no notice.

 

[steamybrian]

Now if Uckfield to Lewes line was reopened there would be an alternative route to Brighton.....


( I will now run away and hide before it starts lots of discussion....!!!!!!!! )

 

[Jan Mayen]

Just finishing a journey from Three Bridges to London Victoria. Departed 0750, arrived 0932. It went smoothly, my thanks to all who arranged it.
Looking forward to the journey back this evening

 

[Bikeman78]

You should've seen the queues at Gatwick on boxing day

They aren't full today. I viewed two trains around midday. Plenty of pairs of empty seats in the three coaches towards the middle of the formation. I expect the south ends would have been quieter still. No justification for not letting people on at Horsham. The doors reminded locked.

 

[TUC]

Even worse that this is an airport so people will 1) struggle to get to the airport and 2) probably never use the train to an airport again just in case it happens again

What kind of person plans a time-sensitive journey to an airport without even checking train times and services?

 

[CastlebarKeith]

Now if Uckfield to Lewes line was reopened there would be an alternative route to Brighton.....

Nobody would normally use it as most of the theoretical passengers travel free with their bus passes
A complete waste of money

BUT if the Arundel chord was built (400 metres)
you would have an alternative route to Brighton at a FRACTION of the cost and disruption

 

[PGAT]

Nobody would normally use it as most of the theoretical passengers travel free with their bus passes
A complete waste of money

BUT if the Arundel chord was built (400 metres)
you would have an alternative route to Brighton at a FRACTION of the cost and disruption

The Arun Valley line is used for Brighton diversions already, the only difference is that they reverse at Littlehampton

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I recall the points at Stoats Nest were replaced in a blockade over Christmas 2013 - was that a like-for-like renewal or did that introduce some subtle change to the pointwork that introduced the annual tamping requirement?

Most modern concrete layouts use split bearers as it allows the layout to be delivered by tilting wagons and avoids site build up. The problem with the split bearers is the need to keep the layout pretty solid to avoid stress being placed at the joints. The bearers can easily run to 7-8m so they can exert a huge bending moment about the joint and cause it to fail. This is why tandem tamping is used to get the layout relevelled

My understanding is that the electrical supply for the third rail between Dorking and Horsham can only support a maximum of 2tph in each direction (at least when they're 12-car in length), so the half-hourly diversions are all that can run. Indeed, when such a possession is required on a Saturday (as happened in 2024), buses replace the normal stopping trains between Dorking and Horsham to enable the diversions to run.

Thats not correct this was the main route to Bognor and Portsmouth pre the diversion of all coast services via Gatwick. Pathing down through Epsom used to be the main challenge.

 

[CastlebarKeith]

The Arun Valley line is used for Brighton diversions already, the only difference is that they reverse at Littlehampton

We all know that

But it is the Littlehampton reversals that take time, money, inconvenience, delay and stress

 

[PGAT]

We all know that

But it is the Littlehampton reversals that take time, money, inconvenience, delay and stress

Do any of these things pay the bills for such a chord? It would only be used during in very niche cases like this where a circuitous route into London is the only option.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Do any of these things pay the bills for such a chord? It would only be used during in very niche cases like this where a circuitous route into London is the only option.

Not at the cost of new infrastructure now. Would need land acquisition so T&W then the whole area would need to be resignalled. Not much change out 0f 100m.

 

[CastlebarKeith]

Not at the cost of new infrastructure now. Would need land acquisition so T&W then the whole area would need to be resignalled. Not much change out 0f 100m.

The local councils will dispute that figure (400metres)
And so how much would re-instatement of Lewes-Uckfield (8 miles) cost?

 

[steamybrian]

The local councils will dispute that figure (400metres)
And so how much would re-instatement of Lewes-Uckfield (8 miles) cost?

Resinstating Lewes to Uckfield would provide a rail service from the growing towns of Crowborough and Uckfield to Lewes to the South Coast as well as a diversionary route.. Far better to provide a new regular train service that will be well used. Not everyone has a free bus.
I cannot see the justification of providing an east facing chord at Arunder Junction that will be only be used on a few days per year.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Resinstating Lewes to Uckfield would provide a rail service from the growing towns of Crowborough and Uckfield to Lewes to the South Coast as well as a diversionary route.. Far better to provide a new regular train service that will be well used. Not everyone has a free bus.
I cannot see the justification of providing an east facing chord at Arunder Junction that will be only be used on a few days per year.

It could be used for a Horsham to Worthing Service

 

[Edvid]

Rail replacement pick-up access at Gatwick is unusual by virtue of passengers having to use the entry gates, which I've not seen elsewhere.

Interestingly there was also a notice at East Grinstead explaining Gatwick tap-out arrangements for contactless/Oyster PAYG users so they weren't unfairly treated for using that route, which is good.

I planned for possible delays on my day out but didn't expect the RRB I rode on to crash into a car queuing at a petrol station! (It was a low-speed crash and nobody was hurt AFAIK.)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The local councils will dispute that figure (400metres)
And so how much would re-instatement of Lewes-Uckfield (8 miles) cost?

Ashington cost 300m on an existing railway. It might be short but thats two double jcns, ground conditions pretty wet in that area with plenty of ecological and environmental constraints, would need a complete new interlocking and as soon as they touch anything old the ramifications always push out beyond the immediate area.

Its ludicrous amount I agree and i dearly wish the industry would take a long hard look at itself and get costs back to realistic levels.

 

[CastlebarKeith]

Not at the cost of new infrastructure now. Would need land acquisition so T&W then the whole area would need to be resignalled. Not much change out 0f 100m.

l have been speaking with a couple of Arun District Councillors about this. They are incredulous
May I have your permission to quote you?
And do you have a source for that cost figure?

It could be used for a Horsham to Worthing Service

Arun and some Mole Valley Councillors want a study of a possible Dorking - Horsham - Arundel -Worthing service

 

[Harpo]

What kind of person plans a time-sensitive journey to an airport without even checking train times and services?

Ironically, normal Hex and Gatwick Express frequencies and journey ties are intended to provide a turn-up-and-go service that makes timetables obsolete for most users.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Gatwick Express frequencies

Not since the pandemic, unfortunately. Doesn't look like it will ever go back to 4tph annoyingly.

 

[Murray J]

Not since the pandemic, unfortunately. Doesn't look like it will ever go back to 4tph annoyingly.

Are those paths still unused then?

 

[Cricketer8for9]

In terms of busyness Victoria at 19:20 was about as busy as in COVID, ie as quiet as I’ve ever seen it. On the every 15 min service to East Croydon. Quiet as well. Sensible people from further south than Croydon will simply have arranged to do something else today.

 

[43066]

Even worse that this is an airport so people will 1) struggle to get to the airport and 2) probably never use the train to an airport again just in case it happens again

Ironically, normal Hex and Gatwick Express frequencies and journey ties are intended to provide a turn-up-and-go service that makes timetables obsolete for most users.

Nobody sensible travels to an airport for a flight without checking, especially on a Sunday when it’s common for services to reduced/suspended for engineering. Most people in the catchment for Gatwick would simply take a cab or perhaps drive and pay for parking.

 

[najaB]

Nobody sensible travels to an airport for a flight without checking, especially on a Sunday when it’s common for services to reduced/suspended for engineering.

Unfortunately, "nobody sensible" is also most likely to run to the red tops to tell the tale of how "Fat Controller RUINED my holiday!"

Probably accompanied by a picture of them looking miserable standing on an empty train platform, surrounded by piles of luggage and with a train ticket in hand.

 

[steamybrian]

As a matter of interest what work was being undertaken at Redhill to obstruct services from Reading and Tonbridge?

 

[43066]

Unfortunately, "nobody sensible" is also most likely to run to the red tops to tell the tale of how "Fat Controller RUINED my holiday!"

Probably accompanied by a picture of them looking miserable standing on an empty train platform, surrounded by piles of luggage and with a train ticket in hand.

I doubt it. It’s a weekend engineering closure.

It’s a little contradictory for some people to be saying “we should have been given more notice”, while others claim the service is treated as turn-up and go so that nobody checks the timetable anyway!

It’s sounds as those the bus replacement provided was fairly decent. Personally I wouldn’t consider taking that if I had a flight, and would most likely drive and park.

From Gatwick’s point of view this is probably quite a sensible weekend to do it as the Xmas/New Year rush will have died down, and it’s perhaps too soon after the festive season for people to be heading off skiing just yet.

 

[najaB]

I doubt it. It’s a weekend engineering closure.

I dunno. We're still being treated to stories of people falling foul of EU passport validity rules that have been in force for going on five years.

 

[43066]

I dunno. We're still being treated to stories of people falling foul of EU passport validity rules that have been in force for going on five years.

Well there’s just no helping some people! The work still needs to be done at some point.

 

[IrishDave]

Most modern concrete layouts use split bearers as it allows the layout to be delivered by tilting wagons and avoids site build up. The problem with the split bearers is the need to keep the layout pretty solid to avoid stress being placed at the joints. The bearers can easily run to 7-8m so they can exert a huge bending moment about the joint and cause it to fail. This is why tandem tamping is used to get the layout relevelled

Thanks very much for the explanation - much appreciated!

 

[Skimpot flyer]

On the 20:05 Victoria to Gatwick service and the driver announced on departure that ‘we will be calling at Clapham Junction, Epsom, Horsham and Gatwick Airport’.
Nice to know, but the departure boards on the main concourse and the display screens on the platform all stated Clapham Junction was the only stop.
So anyone who isn’t a train geek would not know they could get to Epsom or Horsham on this service !!

The train that came in on Platform 16 at around 19:55 was indeed rammed with suitcase-draggers. I’d estimate it was about 80% full.

On calling at Clapham, the dot-matrix (?) screen displayed

“20:13 Calling at Gatwick Airport only”

 

[SouthernOne]

I believe Epsom is a crew change over point, and Horsham the train has to reverse