Bought railcard during journey, and showed inspector.

[JustAGuy8]

Bought 26-30 railcard during journey, and showed inspector at my destination. Inspector wasn't happy with that (saw valid till date being todays date a year from now), so took name and address, and 2 months later I have a letter asking for info.

Detail:

• Journey from London Liverpool St to Stanstead airport.
• Purchased at the station
• Outbound leg of anytime return
• I have a photo showing ticket, railcard, and station sign.
• Occurred at the destination station.
• Inspector took ticket from me.
• Letter reads: "All the available evidence is being considered as to whether legal proceedings are appropriate". There is a tear off form asking for contact details and a signature.
• Letter is from Greater Anglia
• I honestly believed I already had a railcard, but when checking my email I had an email confusingly titled "Your railcard application" from back in January, which in fact said "You still have an incomplete Railcard application in your account.". I assumed the railcard was ordered because I'd received a confirmation email, but I guess either their systems failed or I made a mistake.
• I am currently unemployed, and would struggle to pay either a hefty legal bill or fine.

EDIT to clarify:

This is a digital railcard, to show on my phone via an app, and it took me a long time to show the inspector because I needed to delete a bunch of apps to free enough space to install their app, the confirmation email wouldn't sync to my phone (also because I was out of space), and I think that annoyed the inspector, so I am expecting them to throw every rule at me... I did show it eventually before the inspector asked for my address and stuff.

How would you proceed? Thanks to anyone here for any advice!

 

[najaB]

How would you proceed?

I'd get on with my life. Based on what you've posted you had a valid ticket and Railcard combination and have done nothing wrong.

 

[Haywain]

you had a valid ticket and Railcard combination

That could be debatable, as the OP clearly did not have a valid ticket at the time of boarding the train.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The OP did not have a railcard. Application still in process...?

 

[30907]

The OP did not have a railcard. Application still in process...?

I think that relates to a previous application six months ago.

It is a little strange that the OP thought they bought the railcard then, but didn't use it until now; how did they discover that they didn't actually have a railcard?

 

[bb21]

If your original Railcard application were incomplete, I assume then you never got to the payment stage? (Correct me if wrong.)

In that case how in any reasonable mind would you assume your purchase was successful?

 

[JustAGuy8]

For clarification, this is the digital railcard, so not a physical bit of plastic.

> If your original Railcard application were incomplete, I assume then you never got to the payment stage?
I am pretty sure I completed the application (payment and all), but I remember it requiring a my driving license and stuff, so I revisited the page a few times over a few hours. I'd guess during that time something timed out? I have verified on my bank statements that I was not charged on the day.

The railcard bought on the day was completed, paid for, and showing on my phone screen.

 

[JustAGuy8]

Also... The letter I received is dated on a sunday, and I only received it 8 days after its date... Is it possible they backdated the letter, and would that help me in any way?

 

[some bloke]

Inspector wasn't happy with that (saw valid till date being todays date a year from now)

If it's valid for a year, it should have the previous day's date a year later, rather than the same date.

Otherwise it shouldn't begin validity till the next day.

If it was valid, it's not clear why the inspector would necessarily see a problem, as it could have been bought before the ticket.

 

[Haywain]

If your original Railcard application were incomplete, I assume then you never got to the payment stage? (Correct me if wrong.)

In that case how in any reasonable mind would you assume your purchase was successful?

This question is based on this comment:

I honestly believed I already had a railcard, but when checking my email I had an email confusingly titled "Your railcard application" from back in January, which in fact said "You still have an incomplete Railcard application in your account.". I assumed the railcard was ordered because I'd received a confirmation email, but I guess either their systems failed or I made a mistake.

The letter I received is dated on a sunday, and I only received it 8 days after its date... Is it possible they backdated the letter, and would that help me in any way?

In a word, no.

 

[cuccir]

Bought 26-30 railcard during journey,....

This is a digital railcard, to show on my phone via an app, and it took me a long time to show the inspector because I needed to delete a bunch of apps to free enough space to install their app, the confirmation email wouldn't sync to my phone (also because I was out of space),

It'd be helpful if you could confirm the timetable of events here. When exactly did you buy the railcard - after you'd boarded the train? When you saw the inspector? If not these times, then when?

If you purchased after boarding, and if the train company have evidence for this (eg did you tell the inspector in conversation you'd bought it during the journey?) then the railway company may be able to prosecute you under Railway Bylaw 18 for travelling without a valid ticket. A successful prosecution under this law only needs to prove that you did not have a valid ticket, regardless of intentions.

There is harsher legislation called the Regulation of the Railways Act but that requires them to prove intent to avoid payment; I don't think they're likely to use that in your case, although they might try to do so if you only started buying the Railcard when you saw the inspector - they might argue that you intended to not buy the Railcard if you didn't encounter an Inspector. This approach seems too risky to me on the TOC's behalf but if they have good evidence they might go for it.

Exactly how to respond to their letter, I think, depends on when you purchased the Railcard and what exactly (if you can remember) you said to the Inspector.

 

[cuccir]

It is a little strange that the OP thought they bought the railcard then, but didn't use it until now; how did they discover that they didn't actually have a railcard?

Also answering this question would help too - when did you realize you didn't have the Railcard?

 

[furlong]

From the FAQ

How do I buy my 26-30 Railcard for the first time?
...
Once your online payment has been successful you will receive an email confirmation and acknowledgement of your application number (this confirmation cannot be used to buy discounted tickets). Your new Railcard will be available instantly

 

[furlong]

So perhaps - due to the inability to show it immediately - there was perhaps a suspicion that you only purchased it at the moment you were challenged to show it. So the timeline will be important - time of ticket purchase, time of train departure, time of railcard purchase, time of inspection. You might need to explain long gaps between any of the first three.

 

[najaB]

That could be debatable, as the OP clearly did not have a valid ticket at the time of boarding the train.

In light of the edit to the post (that it was a digital railcard) I think you may have a point. I took "Purchased at the station" to refer to the railcard.

 

[some bloke]

Bought 26-30 railcard during journey, and showed inspector at my destination.

EDIT to clarify: ...it took me a long time to show the inspector because I needed to delete a bunch of apps to free enough space to install their app, the confirmation email wouldn't sync to my phone (also because I was out of space), and I think that annoyed the inspector

The website says it may take 30 minutes for the code to arrive.
https://www.26-30railcard.co.uk/help/faqs/digital-railcard/

Are you saying it was clear to the inspector that you'd got off the train without buying the railcard?

Maybe the title of the thread, and the first sentence, need clarifying.

As well as writing out the detail as @cuccir and @furlong suggest (including what you said to the inspector), you might like to think if there are other mitigating factors. The part about the previous attempt to buy may also need clarification, as according to the website currently, you need to not just get the application approved but put the code into the app.

 

[JBuchananGB]

It'd be helpful if you could confirm the timetable of events here. When exactly did you buy the railcard - after you'd boarded the train? When you saw the inspector? If not these times, then when?

I think this is the key. The journey time from Liverpool Street to Stansted is about an hour, yet the OP kept the RPI waiting.

because I needed to delete a bunch of apps to free enough space to install their app, the confirmation email wouldn't sync to my phone (also because I was out of space),

It sounds to me like the OP had completed his journey without a valid ticket, and was trying to buy a digital railcard there and then. In which case he is in line for whatever due process Greater Anglia wish to pursue.

 

[najaB]

It sounds to me like the OP had completed his journey without a valid ticket, and was trying to buy a digital railcard there and then. In which case he is in line for whatever due process Greater Anglia wish to pursue.

To be fair, that's not how I read it. It sounds to me like he had completed the purchase process on the website before arrival, but couldn't receive the Railcard because of problems with his phone.

To my mind, the key question on which any prosecution would rest is the time that the transaction was completed. If it was very early in the journey then, while a Byelaw offence could be made out, it would be very hard to say that there was intent to avoid paying the fare due.

 

[gray1404]

There is an argument that the OP was unable to show a valid ticket when asked because they were unable to show their railcard. However, under the new rules if one does not have their railcard they can be allowed to produce it later. So the key here is what time the OP purchased their railcard. There are a couple of ways of fining this out. There should be a timestamp on the confirmation email sent when they purchased the railcard online. Alternatively, the OPs card issuer may be able to confirm the time the transaction was authorised.

In short, if the OP purchased their ticket before the train they travelled on was due to depart the station they boarded at then it is fair to say they purchased their railcard before travelling.

 

[RPI]

There is an argument that the OP was unable to show a valid ticket when asked because they were unable to show their railcard. However, under the new rules if one does not have their railcard they can be allowed to produce it later. So the key here is what time the OP purchased their railcard. There are a couple of ways of fining this out. There should be a timestamp on the confirmation email sent when they purchased the railcard online. Alternatively, the OPs card issuer may be able to confirm the time the transaction was authorised.

In short, if the OP purchased their ticket before the train they travelled on was due to depart the station they boarded at then it is fair to say they purchased their railcard before travelling.

They can produce it later but it had to have been valid for the date and time of the journey, the time of the transaction (of railcard purchase) will have been recorded, if the time of that purchase was 2 minutes before the inspector stopped the OP then this will come out.

 

[island]

I think there is a simple question to be answered here that hasn’t yet been.

At the point at which you joined the train, did you or did you not have with you a valid Railcard?

 

[gray1404]

They can produce it later but it had to have been valid for the date and time of the journey, the time of the transaction (of railcard purchase) will have been recorded, if the time of that purchase was 2 minutes before the inspector stopped the OP then this will come out.

I agree it comes down to these questions. What time the train the OP used departed and what time the said railcard was purchased online. If the latter is after the former then it is clear that they didn't have a valid ticket for their journey at the time they commenced it.

I think it is down to the OP now to come back to provide further details before further help can be given.